2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Right and Left Both Want Radical Change. Guess Who Is a Lot Closer to Getting It?
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/01/radical-right-policy-changes-are-realistic.html#Cautionary article from NYMag
One idea, of course, is that inspired by the concept of the "Overton Window": that you can move the range of acceptable policies and thus the center of discussion by opening the bidding on any given topic with a more radical proposal. To use the most common example, Democrats might have gotten a more progressive health-care law enacted in 2010 if they had first proposed a single-payer system instead of a private system with a public option. The trouble with that example is that it was Democratic senators, not Republicans, who opposed the public option, the Medicare buy-in, and other progressive twists on Obamacare. With Republicans opposing any action at all, that's all it took. Now some left-bent folks would say this shows why "centrist" Democrats need to be removed from the party. But that takes time, and as 2006 showed, even a primary loss cannot necessarily remove a Joe Lieberman from office.
Another thing you hear from Bernie Sanders himself is that the political system is fundamentally corrupt, and that progressive change can only become possible if the moneylenders are thrown out of the temple via thoroughgoing campaign finance reform. But that will require either a constitutional amendment the most implausible route for change or replacement of Supreme Court justices, the slowest.
And then, as Krugman himself notes, there are "hidden majority" theories that hold that "bold" proposals can mobilize vast majorities of Americans to support radical action and break down gridlock. Few are as easy to explode as Ted Cruz's "54 million missing Evangelicals" hypothesis, but the belief of some Sanders supporters that Trump voters (and many millions of nonvoters) would gravitate to Bernie in a general election is not far behind as the product of a fantasy factory.
Scary bottom line: The right is a lot closer to the left in possessing the practical means for a policy revolution (or counterrevolution, as the case might be).
Response to BlueMTexpat (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)seemed more like spam than anything else, so I have put that poster on "Full Ignore." I did not click on the link provided and advise against anyone else clicking on it.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)MeNMyVolt
(1,095 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)the work of state and county organizing. They needed to put up a Dem for EVERY local office no matter how small; finance and run liberal radio stations, think tanks, TV stations; pay for and retain strong liberal speakers for TV commentary; and keep the pressure on the Republicans by not letting them get away with their lies. The more the Republicans were treated like worthy adversaries, the more ground they gained and the crazier things got. Now we are at the edge of crazy. Are we all (D and R) about to be dragged into the pit of crazy? I think so. We have no way to stop it now. No one calls them on their craziness except a few reporters.
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)It's not necessarily true that Dems have refused to organize for the past 30 years, however. The DNC, under Howard Dean (2004-2008), tried to build up the state networks and succeeded in that well enough to give Dems control of both houses of Congress and several governorships before his departure. Of course, people like Rahm Emanuel never gave Dean credit for that and fought him tooth and nail every step of the way.
After Dean's departure, the DNC primarily returned to most of its pre-Dean tactics, along with the DSCC and the DCCC - neither of which ever bought into Dean's 50-state strategy in the first place. IMO, this shortsightedness is in large part responsible for GOPer gains in recent years, even though the issues of flagrant gerrymandering, failure of Dems to vote in off-year elections, enactment of restrictive voting laws by GOPer-dominated state legislatures, Dem candidates who ran away from Prez O's policies, etc. have also played their parts.
These are all serious problems that need to be addressed no matter which of our candidates is chosen for the GE.
Right now, issues are heavily leveraged in favor of GOPer RWers, so I largely agree with the article's conclusions. The "pit of crazy" that you describe looks more real than not.
Nay
(12,051 posts)I was trying to keep it short. Poor Dean was railroaded out of power for his 50-state strategy, so he was just a blip on the screen. I don't think there is a better illustration of how $$$$$$ has taken over both parties.
And don't get me started on gerrymandering, election fraud, voting machine fraud, voter roll fraud, intimidation of voters, etc. The RW has all that sewed up and the Dems continue to pretend it's not happening.
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)converted!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)From 1995 until 2006, Kilgore worked for the Democratic Leadership Council and the Progressive Policy Institute, serving as DLC political director and policy director, and eventually vice president for Policy. He was also on the editorial board of New Democrat and Blueprint magazines, and was responsible for the DLC-sponsored New Donkey blog.
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)a minute ago?
These blasted senior moments! Anyway, I'll repeat my response: thanks for your response.
Now, it's long past time to cook dinner.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)Since you believe that some comments are worth repeating, here is one that I will be repeating ad nauseam if it doesn't show in my signature line from now on.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)But thanks for your comment.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Isn't that special?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)Anything is better than losing.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)me, but who is not playing to win?
I see all three Dem candidates playing to win and playing very hard to do so. They have different approaches and policies. Some of those approaches/policies - given the current political reality - are likely to be successful. Others not. Per the article, a full-blown LW revolution is extremely unlikely to happen when the RW currently not only has a lock on Congress (hopefully that lock will be alleviated somewhat this year), but also on many state houses and state legislatures.
There are two tactics described in the article for a successful LW "revolution" to occur: constitutional amendments (how likely is that given the facts stated above?) and appointing new US Supremes - somewhat easier but which could still take a VERY long time. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is among those likely to retire soon - and she is one of the GOOD ones we can't really spare. I wish that somehow we could pry Scalia from his seat, but he'll probably carry his gavel with him to the grave. Just getting rid of him in any way (he's already gaga, IMO) would be an amazing and immediate improvement.
One can shoot for the moon - when the odds are heavily weighted against you - and lose everything. Or in such circumstances, one can play strategically and make gains. The latter is much the better tactic in this political reality.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)And, if so, instituting some "radical" (GASP!!) changes in our corrupt government.
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)I very much hope that is true. I know that he will receive my support then.
But first, he has to become the Dem nominee.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... and reeeeeeeeealy hard.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)The (R)s have already had their radical change. It is know as Reagan/Bush/Bush economics.
We need a progressive counterrevolution to get us back to where we were before all that crazy bull shit started.
Hillary's incremental approach won't cut it.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)From 1995 until 2006, Kilgore worked for the Democratic Leadership Council and the Progressive Policy Institute, serving as DLC political director and policy director, and eventually vice president for Policy. He was also on the editorial board of New Democrat and Blueprint magazines, and was responsible for the DLC-sponsored New Donkey blog.
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Don't believe the Right is closer, because more people poll Progressive on the issues.
if they are in any way closer, it's because their people don't shy away from demanding it. They don't shy away from confrontation. And they have decades of rightwing radio support and politicians of all stripes, including DEMOCRATS, sucking up to their philosophy.
A massive brainwashing is what it is.
I mean, stand up people. Stand up for what is right. Stand up for what you truly believe. Quit accepting leftovers and half warmed over Republican ideas, and you'll be so much less likely to receive them.
Stand up and be counted.
Bernie is absolutely right. Working and volunteering and donating and voting and acting together after the vote - that is how we're going to get what we want in this country. Sure, the righwing has been better at activating their base. So, get busy activating ours right now. And let me tel you one thing - you're not going to do that with Hillary Clinton.
draa
(975 posts)The GOP will try. They may fail 62 times (as with the ACA), but they never quit trying.
Too bad we can't say the same for the Democratic Party. The party of No We Can't won't ever win because they refuse to even try.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)We can agree to disagree.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)... so scared... ...
BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)sorry if this article did.
TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)which was a disaster in every way. obama spent much time cleaning up their mess, but has sold us down the river with tpp.
this is a big election with big ideas and big passion.
i can think of two candidates who embody that.
sanders v trump 2016
get your popcorn now!