Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Judi Lynn

(160,527 posts)
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 02:54 PM Jul 2013

Neandertals Shared Speech and Language With Modern Humans, Study Suggests

Neandertals Shared Speech and Language With Modern Humans, Study Suggests

July 9, 2013 — Fast-accumulating data seem to indicate that our close cousins, the Neandertals, were much more similar to us than imagined even a decade ago. But did they have anything like modern speech and language? And if so, what are the implications for understanding present-day linguistic diversity? The MPI for Psycholinguistics researchers Dan Dediu and Stephen C. Levinson argue in their paper in Frontiers in Language Sciences that modern language and speech can be traced back to the last common ancestor we shared with the Neandertals roughly half a million years ago.

The Neandertals have fascinated both the academic world and the general public ever since their discovery almost 200 years ago. Initially thought to be subhuman brutes incapable of anything but the most primitive of grunts, they were a successful form of humanity inhabiting vast swathes of western Eurasia for several hundreds of thousands of years, during harsh ages and milder interglacial periods. We knew that they were our closest cousins, sharing a common ancestor with us around half a million years ago (probably Homo heidelbergensis), but it was unclear what their cognitive capacities were like, or why modern humans succeeded in replacing them after thousands of years of cohabitation. Recently, due to new palaeoanthropological and archaeological discoveries and the reassessment of older data, but especially to the availability of ancient DNA, we have started to realize that their fate was much more intertwined with ours and that, far from being slow brutes, their cognitive capacities and culture were comparable to ours.

Dediu and Levinson review all these strands of literature and argue that essentially modern language and speech are an ancient feature of our lineage dating back at least to the most recent ancestor we shared with the Neandertals and the Denisovans (another form of humanity known mostly from their genome). Their interpretation of the intrinsically ambiguous and scant evidence goes against the scenario usually assumed by most language scientists, namely that of a sudden and recent emergence of modernity, presumably due to a single -- or very few -- genetic mutations. This pushes back the origins of modern language by a factor of 10 from the often-cited 50 or so thousand years, to around a million years ago -- somewhere between the origins of our genus, Homo, some 1.8 million years ago, and the emergence of Homo heidelbergensis. This reassessment of the evidence goes against a saltationist scenario where a single catastrophic mutation in a single individual would suddenly give rise to language, and suggests that a gradual accumulation of biological and cultural innovations is much more plausible.

Interestingly, given that we know from the archaeological record and recent genetic data that the modern humans spreading out of Africa interacted both genetically and culturally with the Neandertals and Denisovans, then just as our bodies carry around some of their genes, maybe our languages preserve traces of their languages too. This would mean that at least some of the observed linguistic diversity is due to these ancient encounters, an idea testable by comparing the structural properties of the African and non-African languages, and by detailed computer simulations of language spread.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130709115252.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Neandertals Shared Speech and Language With Modern Humans, Study Suggests (Original Post) Judi Lynn Jul 2013 OP
fascinating stuff - thanks jimlup Jul 2013 #1
Huh Lugal Zaggesi Aug 2013 #2
Yeeouch! Who knew Republicans were stomping around that long ago. n/t Judi Lynn Aug 2013 #3
There's a LOT of similarities Lugal Zaggesi Aug 2013 #4
All that was available at the 2nd link was the title, so I looked for another link. Judi Lynn Aug 2013 #5
Thanks for the link - I hadn't read the actual paper before Lugal Zaggesi Aug 2013 #6
 

Lugal Zaggesi

(366 posts)
2. Huh
Wed Aug 7, 2013, 10:46 PM
Aug 2013

Hmmm.

...maybe our languages preserve traces of their languages too. This would mean that at least some of the observed linguistic diversity is due to these ancient encounters, an idea testable by comparing the structural properties of the African and non-African languages, and by detailed computer simulations of language spread.


Maybe we did learn some words from our ancient neighbors:



Ugggllleeee.
Ha ha ha.

 

Lugal Zaggesi

(366 posts)
4. There's a LOT of similarities
Thu Aug 8, 2013, 12:30 PM
Aug 2013

Neanderthals had more primitive brains, and went extinct.

Republicans have more primitive brains, and are going...


Self-proclaimed right-wingers had a more pronounced amygdala - a primitive part of the brain associated with emotion.
It is an almond-shape set of neurons located deep in the brain's medial temporal lobe.
However, those aligned to the left had thicker anterior cingulates - which is an area associated with anticipation and decision-making.
The research was carried out by Geraint Rees director of the UCL Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience who said he was 'very surprised' by the finding, which is being peer reviewed before publication next year.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1342239/Brain-study-reveals-right-wing-conservatives-larger-primitive-amygdala.html


Here's the paper, the next year:
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(11)00289-2

Judi Lynn

(160,527 posts)
5. All that was available at the 2nd link was the title, so I looked for another link.
Thu Aug 8, 2013, 05:50 PM
Aug 2013

Here's the PDF version of the next year's paper:

http://blog.psico.edu.uy/cibpsi/files/2011/04/brains.pdf

(In a lot of cases, there's no need for scanning in U.S. American Republicans, when you can see there's something "different" there, structurally, from a distance. Something beyond the loudness, the sourness, the stupidity, the violence, and the gun lumps in the clothing. Parts of their skulls are dented, even concave, and parts are extended. Also, many lack chins. Sad, actually.)

On edit:

Forgot to mention, it's great having a chance to see the paper on this subject. Thank you!

 

Lugal Zaggesi

(366 posts)
6. Thanks for the link - I hadn't read the actual paper before
Thu Aug 8, 2013, 11:15 PM
Aug 2013

Do you realize this study was based on a half-joking remark by British actor Colin Firth (the King in The King's Speech (2010) movie - which was quite good)?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/28/conservatives-fear-center-brain/
Rees, who heads up UCL’s Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience, was originally asked half-jokingly to study the differences between liberal and conservative brains for an episode of BBC 4?s Today show that was hosted by actor Colin Firth. But, after studying 90 UCL students and two British parliamentarians, the neurologist was shocked to discover a clear correlation between the size of certain brain parts and political views.


Sounds like they've already made some good progress and want to continue/enlarge the study:

For example, our findings are consistent with the proposal that political orientation is associated with psychological processes for managing fear and uncertainty. The amygdala has many functions, including fear processing. Individuals with a large amygdala are more sensitive to fear, which, taken together with our findings, might suggest the testable hypothesis that individuals with larger amygdala are more inclined to integrate conservative views into their belief system. Similarly, it is striking that conservatives are more sensitive to disgust, and the insula is involved in the feeling of disgust.



Be afraid. Be very afraid. And vote Republican !
Latest Discussions»Culture Forums»Anthropology»Neandertals Shared Speech...