Religion
Related: About this forumScience, Religion and Embryos
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karl-giberson-phd/science-religion-and-embryos_b_2499232.htmlKarl Giberson, Ph.DReligion and science scholar
Posted: 01/24/2013 11:30 am
A friend of mine is in the late stages of a tragic pregnancy that will lead either to a stillborn baby or, at best, to a baby that will struggle for a few hours and die. The prognosis was made early on and the decision to take the baby to term was made. The story is heartbreaking but reveals something powerful about our species and how we think about new life.
We know a lot about how babies develop and what can go wrong in a process that is unimaginably complex. Fortunately the process works perfectly most of the time, which is why news of a pregnancy is most often greeted with a chorus of congratulations -- and problems are viewed with such concern.
One of the most extraordinary insights we have into the development of new members of our species is the actual visualization of the physical process. We have had these for quite some time, but I was reminded of just how powerful they are when I -- along with millions of others -- watched Alexander Tsiaras' talk on "Conception to Birth -- Visualized."
As the title suggests, the talk lets the viewer watch a fast forward "short film" in which a glob that we are told consists of human cells morphs smoothly into a embryo we can tell is at least a primate, and then into a recognizable human baby.
more at link
rug
(82,333 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)DreamGypsy
(2,252 posts)...by this paean to the greatness of humans and the human fetus.
The author of the article also writes:
If the 'short film' captured the fetal development of a litter of puppies or of kittens, then many viewers, myself included, would also experience feelings of "intangible value". But, "actually infinite"??? Come on. Yes, fetal development and life are amazing processes, but those go on around us constantly and would still go on if Homo sapiens didn't populate this planet. Do we feel stronger feelings about human babies than kittens and puppies?? Probably. After all strong attachment to new born and growing young helps insure their survival, so is a characteristic that would likely have positive selection.
The anti-abortion rhetoric is not explicit in this article, but the intended implications are, to me at least, obvious.
What if the "glob of cells' in the video became something like this:
What would our feelings be? Birth is a complicated process and it does go wrong, particularly as we inject more and more unusual chemicals into the process. Decisions about the value of life...but at its beginning and near its end...are very difficult. We need to use the rational capabilities we have as humans to make those decisions.
(FYI: The photo is a front view of an anencephalic fetus.)
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Can't be sure, but that would be my guess.
While I can see that there might be an anti-abortion message here, it's not explicit.
The film in the TED talk is truly remarkable. "Ontology recapitulates phylogeny", a concept that has long fascinated me, can be seen here. There is a moment, however, when the fetus is indisputably human.
And it is at that moment, at least for me, that there is a rather profound change in my emotional reaction to the film.
I agree with you to a large extent about using rationality in making the profound decisions about the beginning of life and the end of life as a society, but when it comes to individual choices, emotion may outweigh rationality. I'm not sure that is such a bad thing.
DreamGypsy
(2,252 posts)...we invoke Divinity.
That's the point that Neil deGrasse Tyson makes very coherently in the video Beyond Belief '06 Neil deGrasse Tyson First Talk. (Here's the link is to another DU post of the YouTube video http://www.democraticunderground.com/12307250, I didn't want to embed it here). The best example he gives is Newton - invents calculus, figures out the law of universal gravitation, uses the law to predict the motion of the a planet around the sun or a moon around a planet, faces the many body problem and says (paraphrasing) "It's beyond human comprehension. Only God can figure it out!".
Well, I have a lot of respect for the scientists and engineers at NASA, but they fall slightly short of being goddesses and gods.
Now we have our mathematician, artist, and vidiographer Alexander Tsiaras saying:
The scientific basis for our current understanding of the brain, nervous system, genetic expression, and embryo development falls with last hundred or so years. The evolutionary construction of those mechanisms took ~2.5 billion years or so. Maybe if we continue to extend our knowledge for a few more years we will comprehend the mechanisms. And maybe even be able to manipulate the mechanisms to prevent/correct disorders like anencephaly.
I certainly agree that there is a moment when an embryo is indisputably human. That moment is soon after fertilization when the genetic material of the zygote is complete. Our ability to recognize unobtrusively
Yes, the visual symptoms that led to speculations about recapitulation are present in the video.
Finally, I fully agree that emotions, desires, hopes, and dreams often will and should trump reason for individuals, couples, and families making decisions. Life is about experiences, about happiness, successes, and triumphs, and about grief, failure, and defeat. Sometimes what makes us strongest is the decision that hurt us most.
Thanks for your posts CB.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I also enjoy yours.
Recently I have fantasized about how people will look at our science in 100, 500, 1,000 years (presuming we are still around). What will they see as absurdly primitive? What will they have discover that prove that some things we thought were absolutely true were absolutely wrong?
And even as much as I know about the biological functioning of humans, I hit walls of amazement. So, I understand the mechanics of the heart, but that it beats and beats and beats is pretty astounding.
Thanks for your posts as well, DG.