‘I Want To Live In A Democracy, Not A Religious State’

[rug]

For liberals and centrists, a growing fear of Orthodox power.

Francine Klagsbrun
Special To The Jewish Week
Tuesday, May 29, 2012

The 15-year-old daughter of an Israeli friend announced to her parents that when she gets older she will leave Israel. “The religious are taking over,” she said. “I don’t want to be treated like a second-class citizen, and anyway I want to live in a democracy, not a religious state.”

“I didn’t have an answer,” my friend said.

While Jews in the United States worry incessantly about Iran’s threat to Israel or the moribund peace process, many Israelis place one major concern above all: the internal culture wars between the ultra-Orthodox and the rest of society — secular and non-Orthodox Jews and, in many cases, the moderate Orthodox. Like my friend’s daughter, these people wonder what has happened to their country and what place they will have in it.

The degrading treatment of women by the ultra-Orthodox haredim has been the most visible sign of the increasing strength of religious extremism in Israel. The Beit Shemesh violence and gender segregation on the streets and buses in haredi neighborhoods have received much media attention and angry public reaction. Many have objected also to the absence of women’s faces from posters in Jerusalem and women’s voices from various public events, all at the insistence of the haredim and rigorously Orthodox Religious Zionists who call themselves hardalim (a combination of “haredi” and “dati leumi,” religious nationalists).

http://www.thejewishweek.com/special_sections/israel_now/i_want_live_democracy_not_religious_state

[Fumesucker]

1. I'm reminded of HL Mencken's quote..

"Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere is having a good time." - H.L. Mencken

Just substitute "Ultra-Orthodoxy" for "Puritanism"..

[rug]

2. That's a good quote. Mencken had a sharp eye.

[Humanist_Activist]

3. I think part of the problem is that the Ultra-Orthodox are subsidized by the government...

freeing up their time to try to enact their theocratic agenda and make a lot of babies. Israel has to try to maintain a secular government, if the Ultra-orthodox were to gain enough power, they could turn it into a Jewish version of Iran.

[rug]

4. IIRC, the government subsidies are part of the larger debate going on there now.

[Thats my opinion]

5. Correct! And there is plenty of bigotry wrapped in prayer. Plenty!!nt

Fundamentalism anywhere or any kind--religious or non-religious--is a blight on culture. The Israeli government needs two of the ultra-religious parties to hold together a governing majority. It is one of the blights of the parliamentary system.

[edcantor]

6. What is "non-religious fundamentalism"? Would that be...

facts, science, math, logic, reason, critical thinking?

"Fundamental" stuff like that?

[edcantor]

7. Guess there's no answer to my question. n/t

[cleanhippie]

8. No answer, because that is a "gotcha" question.

You know, common sense stuff.

[DanM]

10. In Israel, there is indeed a war going on between...

...those who would have it as a Jewish Iran (the Charedim and Beit Hamesh) and secularists.

I'm relatively new to DU, but this thread touches on a subject I've been following for a couple of years. I really think more awareness needs to be had with regard to the potential to lose Israel to the forces of dogmatic religion.

&feature=related

[cbayer]

11. Welcome to DU, DanM.

I don't know much about this and look forward to your input.

[DanM]

12. Thanks...

...and among my interests, which I will participate in on DU, is the protection of the state of Israel as a Jewish homeland, but without it becoming another troublesome theocracy adding powder to the powderkeg that is the Middle East.