Trump and Some Christians - Why Do They Believe Him?

[MineralMan]

Trump lies. He lies almost reflexively, whether or not the lie benefits anyone. Donald Trump has broad support among some Christians. Not all Christians, by any means, but a rather large group of evangelical, fundamentalist Christians. They support him. They accept his lies as facts. They defend him, sometimes obnoxiously, on social media platforms. For some reason, they cannot identify the lies Trump tells as lies. Why is that?

I refer to these people as Christians, because they self-identify as such. Most of the people I encounter who support Trump identify as Christians. I am not competent to judge whether they really are or not, so I accept them at their word. For some reason, those people support Donald Trump regardless of what he says or does, and cannot see the lies that he utters constantly. They apparently don't look for verification of anything he says. They simply accept his word as truth. Why is that?

It does not seem to be possible to convince such people of anything that demonstrates the lies as lies. When people try to do that, on social media sites, they get venomous attacks in return, or mere repetition of the lies. Apparently, they are so convinced that the lies Donald Trump tells represent truth that they will not listen to factual evidence that they are lies. I have seen this myself, time and time again, in my social media venues. I have tried to present evidence that is proven, and that evidence has been viciously rejected. In fact, the truth appears to stimulate even more solid support of those lies. Why is that?

Why that is, I think I know. It's not a thing I should say here, though. (Apologies to Robert Frost)

[greymattermom]

1. He is a bully and a grifter

just like their pastors.

[hueymahl]

4. Wow, I had never put those two thoughts together

You are right. They both are terribly susceptible to con men. Eric Hoffer calls these followers "True Believers". And they are dangerous.

[RKP5637]

6. K&R! n/t

[nycbos]

2. Every sperm is scared.

That all they care about. They care about protecting life from conception to birth.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

3. He's the leader of the Official Anti-Abortion Party.

They have to swallow everything he does and says. And not spit.

[RKP5637]

5. Brainwashing and belief in authoritative figures works. n/t

[MineralMan]

7. Why can't they think for themselves?

Nothing gets through to them.

[Voltaire2]

12. It is almost as if a large segment of

self identified Christians are entirely lacking in critical thinking skills.

[MineralMan]

14. Well, I didn't want to bring that up.

It appears to cause problems when I do. That certainly seems to be one possible explanation, though, for such widespread belief in Trump's lies. I mean, we can all see those lies clearly enough. They're painfully obvious.

[Joediss]

28. Agree

To some extent, faith is base on non critical thinking.

[RKP5637]

31. It's the psychological "primacy principal" on steroids. What goes in first, comes out last.

"Principle of Primacy

The first response learned in a situation is especially persistent."

http://www.unm.edu/~quadl/college_learning/node13.html

[MineralMan]

32. Good point.

Thanks!

[3catwoman3]

8. Other than his claim to be anti-abortion (now), which...

...draws those single issue voters, who seem to forgive anything and everything else, this puzzles me as well.

There is a frequently replayed quote from Cadet Bone Spurs where he is boasting, "First of all, I'm a really great Christian. And I am..." Not sure of the context of that statement (lie), but every time I hear it, I shout, "No you are NOT!"

He certainly does not follow any of the teaching of Jesus, as I learned them.

[world wide wally]

9. Because he will pander to them on gays and abortion.

Things that are actually in the 10 Commendments, like lying, adultery, bearing false witness, coveting his neighbors stuff and so forth don't matter anymore.

[MineralMan]

11. Yes, there is that as part of it, I'm sure.

But I think it goes deeper than that. I think it is an inability to process information properly. They appear to be ready to believe almost anything that Trump says, regardless of whether it is factual or not. That is either deliberate or evidence of something missing in their ability to analyse and process information.

[hueymahl]

29. They are True Believers

Some of the most dangerous people in the world.

[MineralMan]

30. Depends on what they believe, I guess.

Some beliefs are not beneficial, it seems.

[hueymahl]

34. I'm referring to True Believers in the philosophical sense

They are the ones most susceptible to mass movements and "strong men". It really does not matter what they believe, because once they believe, they suspend rationality (what little they had) and can be led anywhere and forgive anything of their leaders.

As described by Eric Hoffer:

The readiness for self-sacrifice is contingent on an imperviousness to the realities of life. ...For self-sacrifice is an unreasonable act. ...All active mass movements strive, therefore, to interpose a fact-proof screen between the faithful and the realities of the world. ...by claiming that the ultimate and absolute truth is already embodied in their doctrine and that there is no truth nor certitude outside it. ...To rely on the evidence of senses and of reason is heresy and treason. It is startling to realize how much unbelief is necessary to make belief possible. What we know as blind faith is sustained by innumerable unbeliefs.

[MineralMan]

35. I understand.

Hoffer explained it very well, as did you.

Thanks!

[trotsky]

10. Because they think he will support their values.

They will overlook all his personal failings because he tells them he will do what they want. They're ok with that.

On edit, let's not forget, it's not just "some" Christians that supported him, but MOST.

[MineralMan]

13. So, how does a small subset of values override a much

Last edited Fri Feb 16, 2018, 11:25 AM - Edit history (1)

large set of values supposedly honored by Christians? I can see the statistics you posted. It appears that the category of white, born-again, evangelical Christians are particularly prone to supporting Trump's lies. Perhaps there is something in that group that leads them to be willing to accept untruths as truth. Maybe it's the water.

[trotsky]

21. Two factors I can think of:

One is the authoritative nature of so many Christian sects. It conditions one to obey a leader. Look at all the churches where the pastor gets accused of sexual assault - the reflexive nature of the congregation is to defend him and blame the victim.

Two is the tribal nature of most religion. Once you identify your tribe, the "others" are always bad, and "yours" are always good. Even with their faults, they're better than the "others." Ironically you see some of the strongest interfaith movements center around their shared bigotry against the "others"! Fundamentalist Jews, Muslims, and Christians agree on opposing marriage equality, for instance.

[MineralMan]

22. Good points.

Thanks!

[Mariana]

40. "Yours" are always better than the "others" ...

Didn't we see an example of this kind of thinking in another thread just in the last few days? A poster said something about not being able to criticize any person who shared the poster's faith? It was something like that.

[DetlefK]

15. They side with Trump to convince themselves that their opinion counts for something.

The current republican administration is the most non-religious one of the last two decades (or even more). Nobody gives a fuck about what Christians want, except when it comes to riling them up for some issue to get their votes.

Trump is quite possibly the most anti-christian President ever. But... If Trump is not a believer, that means their opinion is no longer mainstream.



Option 1:
Admit that the GOP no longer needs you.



Option 2:
Declare that this anti-christian President is a good Christian and pretend that the GOP still needs you.

[MineralMan]

16. I think Trump is willing to declare himself a Christian,

if that's what is needed. Another lie, perhaps?

[Mariana]

41. There's no way to know for sure.

It's possible he's a real Christian who totally believes the "Once saved always saved, Jesus forgives everything if only you believe" doctrine of many denominations. That would explain the apparent discrepancy between his supposed faith and his behaviour.

[MineralMan]

42. I accept people's statements about their religion.

I have no way to know. Often, they are somewhat hard to believe, given the actions of some people, but I must accept their declarations, no matter how puzzling.

[Snackshack]

17. The enemy of my enemy...etc, etc.

Also- “Apparently, they are so convinced that the lies Donald Trump tells represent truth that they will not listen to factual evidence that they are lies.”

Factual evidence carries less weight as a rational standard of measure than the belief itself.

[MineralMan]

18. Interesting. I'm sure that's part of it.

Your last sentence, though, I think, gets right to the point of such irrational beliefs in lies.

[Fresh_Start]

19. most importantly he flatters them

tells them that they are what make america great
the fact that we know its a blatant lie he says to curry favor with them...doesn't matter to them
they are used to being lied to...and are eager to accept praise

[randr]

20. Their favorite religious image is a man nailed to a cross

and believe all sorts of nonsense. No surprise that an idiot like Trump could control them.

[guillaumeb]

23. Fear motivates.

And the less informed are the most susceptible to the tactics of fear.

When I say less informed it does not mean uninformed about anything, but it does refer to those who get their information from FOX news and Infowars and similar sources.

[MineralMan]

24. No, you know, I don't think that's what it is.

[guillaumeb]

25. Feel free to explain.

[MineralMan]

26. I always feel free to explain.

I do not need anyone's permission. Sometimes, I choose not to explain, though. I believe the original post in this thread contains all the explanation required. If you think about it, critically, you'll understand it.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. Critical thinking.

Since the claims of religious adherents are impossible to test, parsimony is out the window. No one can prove Trump isn't religious, that he doesn't have some divine purpose, or the 'blessings' of god or anything.

Part of the reason I rail about religion. It lends credibility to people who wear it like a cloak, that is not deserved.

[MineralMan]

33. Well said.

[Voltaire2]

36. Which makes you part of the small group

of Vewy Vewy Bad Atheists in this forum who make it a horrible place where nobody can say anything nice about religion without getting abused.

We should instead pander to the religious right, show them that we love us some baby jeebus too, and most importantly never point out just how frequently foolish, depraved, and regressive religion and religious institutions are in society.

That way nobody will ever have to confront their own beliefs, examine them, consider how valid they are. Who wants to bother with that sort of nonsense?

[Act_of_Reparation]

37. Because nothing is true.

There's no cognitive dissonance because Evangelicals don't think Trump has done anything wrong. Anything critical of the president is "fake news", and that enables them to dismiss it out of hand.

[MineralMan]

38. Oh, OK. That explains it, then...

[trotsky]

39. It's a propaganda technique perfected in Russia...

and now being successfully used here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/books/review/nothing-is-true-and-everything-is-possible-by-peter-pomerantsev.html

Pomerantsev, a British journalist of Russian heritage, began going to Russia regularly as a reality television producer almost a decade ago, and it’s through that prism that he sees the country. “Reality” is scripted by the dark forces inside the Kremlin. Fake opposition parties engage in fake opposition to those who rule, a fake justice system goes through the motions of the legal process, and the fake television news shapes what Russia’s 143 million citizens are allowed to see.