Religion
Related: About this forumDeuteronomy 17:2-7
Quran 9:5
The bottom line here is, while most followers of the Abrahamic religions do not take these verses literally today (thank the FSM!), they still exist in the texts the the followers of those religions use, and people who DO take them literally as divine commandments also still exist.
I still have yet to see anyone A) identify the "Official Big Book of Atheism" from which the atheistic position is derived, and B) point to the direct quotes in that book that even remotely appear to justify murder.
I understand that it is difficult for some to see how those situations are different, and that it's more of a quest to go "Ha ha neener neener atheists kill too", but the fact is, I still haven't seen anyone deny the Chapel Hill shooter is an atheist (clearly he is). Yet many individuals fell over each other claiming that the Charlie Hebdo attackers weren't Muslim, or that George Bush isn't a Christian.
Yes, humans can be horrible to each other. They don't need a religion to be. But sometimes they do horrible things specifically because they think a god commanded them to - and unless we are allowed to criticize religious belief just like any other idea, no one can prove them wrong.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)We atheists don't need to claim that the shooter wasn't really an atheist, because there is no atheist doctrine or community. There are no atheist beliefs, no infallible scriptures, there are no squabbling atheist denominations, there are no schisms and no heretics in atheism.
Religious communities are artificial. Atheism is the natural state and each atheist is alone. Nobody forces him to hold onto atheism. Each atheist has to be able to defend his stance. Refering to an authority "He said there is no God and he is always right!" simply doesn't work in atheist arguments.
I think many believers simply cannot "grok" atheism. The truly believe that it is just like religion, with leaders that we follow and official doctrines and so on. From everything I've observed and experienced, "organized" atheism is anything but.
longship
(40,416 posts)First, I don't give a fuck what other people believe, even when they express it strongly. I feel strongly that people should be measured by their actions, not their beliefs, or lack thereof (whichever the case may be).
It was inevitable, when this murderer was revealed to be an atheist, that there would be some blowback. However, I still say that I am still proud of my atheist brethren. That people would no more paint atheism with such a broad brush than the actions of a bad theist be extended to all theists.
To do so is to cherry pick. That's why I feel strongly that people should be judged , not by beliefs, but by actions.
We have to touch one another.
R&K
rug
(82,333 posts)Harris 9:06
Hitchens 9:15:01
Hitchens 11:15:01
Hitchens 9:09:02
Promethean
(468 posts)who are at best "that guy who wrote an entertaining book" to atheists? As if it compares to the "the inspired word of the supreme being" or the "infallible earthly representative of the supreme being."
rug
(82,333 posts)as opposed to three thousand year old words uttered by nonexistent entities.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Then some other humans read them, copied them, translated them, chose them from among other words and so on..
rug
(82,333 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Saw Hitchens on TV a few times back when I still watched that crud, other than that all I know is what I hear here.
Lots more bigots like the old words though, those words I have read.
rug
(82,333 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)For instance I've never gotten into Southpark because I can't understand those high pitched voices.
Poor hearing is one of the reasons I don't watch TV any more, odd thing about losing hearing is that in some ways you become more sensitive to noise. The TV being on makes it basically impossible for me to follow a conversation in the room. After a while away from it you realize just how awful TV is for the most part.
rug
(82,333 posts)Along with vision. This sucks. Not enough to disable but enough to scare the shit out of me.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It has some compensations, I can conveniently not hear things I don't want to hear and no one suspects I'm sandbagging.
Considering the abuse I've put my ears through it's a wonder I can hear as well as I do.
You don't know what you've got till it's gone, eh?
rug
(82,333 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)edhopper
(33,707 posts)comes from God? Not a word?
This is news to me.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)People who hate find plenty of justification wherever they want.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)You seem so quick in assuming its hatred that was a the motivator.
rug
(82,333 posts)What was your take on the psychotic mother who killed her children because she heard voices from God?
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)from auditory hallucinations, from what, I don't know, and her religious background aided her ill mind into creating a backstory for the voices, giving them an air of authority. Please bear in mind, that her illness is the underlying cause, her religion aided in so much as anything important to her life could have. She could have thought she was hearing the voice of her favorite dead uncle, or from her favorite actor or character on TV, or from another mythology, or Satan, etc.
rug
(82,333 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)It may have created an excuse in his mind, a justification for his actions, beyond the initial source of anger, which appears to be over parking.
rug
(82,333 posts)One of the first things hatred does is dehumanize its targets.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)beliefs from people.
Here, I'll give an example, I live right in little Bosnia, that's the unofficial name for the area most Bosnian Muslim refugees fled to during the war in the 1990s. And I'll be frank, they have revitalized a city that was slowly dying, and may be the first step in turning it around, and while racial tensions here are high, as everyone in the country knows, hopefully we will learn from recent troubles and let all people who live here build a sustainable, growing community.
I would say most of these people are good people, who have the recent immigrant drive to try to make something of themselves in their new home, and it brings new energy into places that desperately need it. However, despite this, I'm still a strong critic of Islam itself, I find little redeeming in it.
okasha
(11,573 posts)PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)Could it be that the same broad brush some of them use to characterize people of faith is now being used on them?
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)this guy could very well have an anti-Muslim bias that contributed to his crime, that's also completely unrelated to his atheism, him being an American has more to do with it than him be atheist. We are bombarded by both overly defensive Muslims and anti-Muslim bias in the media, even our entertainment media has, for years, shown Islam in an, at best, "foreign" light.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)you should really read the whole thing.
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