Pope Francis Defends the Family: ‘What Is Being Proposed Is Not Marriage’

[Humanist_Activist]

[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]VATICAN CITY — In an audience with members of the international Marian movement Schönstatt, Pope Francis warned that the sacrament of marriage has been reduced to a mere association, and urged participants to be witnesses in a secular world.
“The family is being hit, the family is being struck and the family is being bastardized,” the Pope told those in attendance at the Oct. 25 audience.
He warned against the common view in society that “you can call everything family, right?”

...

He regretted that there are so many “new forms” of unions which are “totally destructive and limiting the greatness of the love of marriage.”

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/pope-francis-defends-the-family-what-is-being-proposed-is-not-marriage/#ixzz3HfHJyNFi

Uhm, do I hear a dog whistle here, or is it just my imagination?

[Tikki]

1. The Catholic church let's members 'buy an annulment' even after a long marriage.

Tikki

[MADem]

28. This is true, thus the use of the word "bastardize" by Francis is certainly ironic.

The Catholic church also gets around the multiple marriage conundrum by simply failing to recognize previous ones--Nicole Kidman can attest to this.
Ted (RIP) Kennedy and Rudi Giuliani are two who benefitted from the capricious application (in exchange for compensation, surely) of Vatican law.


And then you've got a "The Lord Giveth, and The Lord Taketh Away" conundrum with the Joe Kennedy marriage: http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1634956,00.html

[arcane1]

2. No dog whistle. He's just saying gay love isn't real love.

Nothing to see here!

[Humanist_Activist]

3. That can't be it! He's pro-gay rights! I know, I was told so on DU, so it must be...

true!

[trotsky]

4. Exactly.

When the pope says bad stuff, it didn't happen.

We are only supposed to praise the good stuff. Despite it being wrapped in bullshit.

[atreides1]

5. "...greatness of the love of marriage."

This coming from the leader of a church which does not allow its priests and nuns to achieve that "greatness"!

[beam me up scottie]

6. Oh my.

How long before the apologists show up to chastise us for being bigoted towards the pope?

[skepticscott]

9. Yes, and how long before

certain gays and lesbians on the board show up to kiss the pope's ass and pretend that he isn't saying what he's saying?

Sickening.

[beam me up scottie]

11. You mean the non-theist apologists?

I have no idea why they love this guy so much.

Maybe they are ex-catholics who miss the abuse?

[msongs]

7. dear pope, god and mary committed adultery behind Joseph's back nt

[rug]

8. Six months ago he opined that half of Catholic marriages are probably invalid.

It came out in an interview with Cardinal Kasper.

https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/merciful-god-merciful-church

It's not about same sex marriage at all. It's about straight Catholic marriages.

So, my answer would be that it's just your imagination.

[Humanist_Activist]

10. So when he talks about "new forms" of unions, what IS he talking about?

And remember, he's calling these unions destructive.

Are you seriously suggesting that he's only stating this opinion about the divorced and remarried? And if so, doesn't what the Pope say NOW directly contradict Cadinal Kasper's interview?

[rug]

12. Cohabitation, serial relationships, open relationships, etc.

He's underscoring the solemnity of a marriage.

[Humanist_Activist]

13. And same sex marriages and relationships aren't included in that list?

Give me a fucking break.

[rug]

14. Not explicitly, no. Unless you're suggesting homosexuality is a choice.

I don't think you really mean that.

His thoughts are on sexuality, in all its forms, and the meaning of marriage.

[Humanist_Activist]

15. Why would homosexuality have to be a choice? Not to mention the fact that...

co-habitation, "open" relationships, etc. aren't exactly new, indeed, cohabitation was so common in the past that many countries acknowledged "common law" marriages that conveyed some marriage rights to cohabiting heterosexual couples. Open relationships were more or less treated on a don't ask, don't tell basis.

So the only thing new on the list, if you want to get technical, is same sex marriage.

You know, generally, I wouldn't give a fuck about his medieval thoughts on sexuality and marriage if his godsforsaken bishops wouldn't campaign to restrict marriage equality for others. I don't see him censoring or even reprimanding Archbishop Lewis Zeigler for blaming ebola on gays. The LGBT community IS singled out by far too many churches, including the Catholic Church. Want to claim your church isn't anti-gay and homophobic? Why not acknowledge that it currently is precisely those things, and then try to work to eliminate those elements in the Church.

[rug]

16. Because he is comparing straght sexuality to sacramentsl marriage.

One does not choose between straight unmarried sex, straight married sex, or gay sex.

When he was talking about invalid Catholic marriages, he wasn't talking about same sex relations.

[Humanist_Activist]

17. So wait, let me see if I have this straight in my head....

The Pope, when talking about "new unions" is actually talking about long standing, old problems with invalid(sacrementally) preexisting Catholic marriages?

Not to mention that while cohabitation has a long history, there was always an easy solution for heterosexuals, get married in the church, acknowledge your sin, repent and receive communion thereafter.

Also, I don't understand your insistence that my claim requires anyone to believe homosexuality is a choice, that seems to be a distraction and off-topic.

[rug]

18. Yes, that's my take on it.

He's made other comments about sex relations but not here. The only way bringing same sex relations into these comments makes sense is by inferring that gay sex is somehow one of the choices available to straight Catholics. It's not.

We both know sexual orientation is not a choice.

[Humanist_Activist]

20. First off, I didn't know the only real Catholics are straight Catholics, good to know that...

In addition, I don't see the comments from my OP as being limited to just Catholic sacramental marriages only, but as applying to how "new types of unions" are destructive to society at large. The context is about contemporary, secular society, NOT just those within the Catholic Church, its in the first, bolded sentence of the article I linked to. Why are you so wrong on this?

Is this opposite day for you or something? What you think has absolutely NO bearing on the article I linked to.

[rug]

21. Since those are your words, I'll leave you to figure them out.

I don't see anything in the article you posted about same sex relations.

What I did provide you is the background of those remarks.

If instead, you want to ignore it and use the article you posted as a platform for some rant, be my guest. it won't change what he said in the slightest.

[Humanist_Activist]

22. But that isn't the background for those remarks, that's provided by the article I linked to...

did you not bother reading it or something?

[AtheistCrusader]

23. Marriage is a legal construct the Catholic Church does not own, and can fuck right off about.

[rug]

26. Who said it did? It is a sacrament. That is something he is competent to speak about.

Now wipe the spittle off your screen.

[AtheistCrusader]

29. It is a sacrament TO HIM/catholics. Doesn't apply to anyone else.

(unless they want to I guess)

My marriage is not, and I do not desire it to be so.

[rug]

30. He's taliking to Catholics. Cover your ears.

[Humanist_Activist]

31. About contemporary, non-Catholic society, are you being purposely obtuse? n/t

[rug]

32. No, are you?

[Humanist_Activist]

33. You would have to be obtuse, you are deliberately ignoring the context of the article I posted...

and went completely off-topic.

[mr blur]

19. Ah, is there anything he doesn't know?

[Warren Stupidity]

24. It is just a cabal of conservative cardinals holding blank frank back.

It is not like he is a homophobic misogynist bigot or anything.

[skepticscott]

25. Don't forget their secret army of mafioso

who everyone knows will whack any pope who gets out of line. But Catholics, it seems, have no trouble supporting an organization that allegedly maintains hierarchical control through contract murder.

[rug]

27. Yes, Catholics support contract murder.

I have a good idea what is eroding your critical thinking.