Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

H2O Man

(73,791 posts)
Sat Jul 15, 2023, 06:33 PM Jul 2023

Boxing: Super Fight this month

July 29: Las Vegas (Showtime PPV)
Title fight: Errol Spence Jr. vs. Terence Crawford, 12 rounds, for Spence's WBC, IBF and WBA welterweight titles and Crawford's WBO welterweight title.


The boxing community is eagerly anticipating what -- at least on paper -- promises to be this era's supreme "Super Fight." It ranks with the 9-16-81 showdown between Sugar Ray Leonard and Thomas "the Hitman" Hearns for the undisputed welterweight title. Ray's record of 30-1 (21 KOs) included his avenging his lone loss to Roberto Duran, while Tommy was 32-0 (30 KOs) at the time.

In this fight, both title-holders are undefeated: Spence is 28-0 (22 KOs), and Crawford is 39-0 (30 KOs). Each man appears to be in his prime. Both are 100% confident in their ability to not only defeat the other, but to knock him out. And there is mighty good reason for that.

On various internet boxing forums, as expected, there are those who are fully convinced that their fighter will devastate the opponent. In my opinion, if one is unable to make a solid case for each guy winning, you are not able to view it objectively. They are both so good that it is hard to see either losing at this point -- until it happens.

At 5' 9" Spence is an inch taller than Bud, but Crawford has a two inch reach advantage. I do not think these will come into play in a manner that determines the outcome. What could be much more important, in my opinion, is who serves as referee, followed by who judges the fight. This could be significant if, in a worst case scenario, a foul -- accidental or otherwise -- causes an injury. The obvious one would be a head butt causing a cut. Let's hope such a thing doesn't happen.

Both men were outstanding amateurs, winning national titles and competing at the higher levels of international competition. Spence fought in the 2012 Olympics, and had a 135-12 record before entering the professional ranks. Crawford had competed in the 2008 Olympic trials, losing to the eventual winner (who went on to be disqualified for using cold medication at the Olympics). In his 58-12 amateur career, Bud beat future pro champions Mikey Garcia and Danny Garcia.

The making of this fight was difficult because each man belonged to a different promotional stable. Spence's promoter demanded a larger pay day, because he held more belts, and they claimed had fought a higher level of competition at welterweight. Bud had held titles at lower weights, and moved up to welterweight when Spence was already dominating the class. The truth is that, despite the welterweight division having serious depth, these two are levels above the other top ten contenders.

A common opponent was former champion Shawn Porter, one of the toughest guys of his era. Spence won a split-decision over Shawn in 2019. Porter beat an undefeated top contender in his next fight. Then Crawford TKOed him in a brutal fight. It is, of course, important to recognize that neither Errol of Bud fight like Porter, so make of their results against Shawn what you will.

I may not be fully objective here, but I think that the smartest members of the boxing community that I interact with all say this fight could go either way. This includes a range of old fighters, including ex-champions, and trainers that I respect. By no coincidence, that is exactly the way that my son and I see this upcoming Super Fight. Depending upon the day of the week, my son and I make strong cases for each fighter.

In the end, the thing that stands out to me is something Teddy Atlas recently said. He noted that both are elite fighters in their primes, making for an even fight on paper. But, he noted, Bud has something extra, distinct from any other fighter in recent times, and Teddy favors him for that reason.

If you get one PPV fight this year -- pitch in with a few people if necessary -- this is the one to get. If you love the art of body-punching, you are in for a special treat.

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Boxing: Super Fight this month (Original Post) H2O Man Jul 2023 OP
I am a huge blueknight73 Jul 2023 #1
I'm looking forward H2O Man Jul 2023 #2
Tomorrow night! True Dough Jul 2023 #3
It should be outstanding! H2O Man Jul 2023 #4
There are definitely high expectations, H2O man True Dough Jul 2023 #5
Right! H2O Man Jul 2023 #6
From the analysis that I've been listening to True Dough Jul 2023 #7
Spence is a great H2O Man Jul 2023 #8
For the undisputed (hopefully) welterweight championship of the world!!! True Dough Jul 2023 #9
Less than 24 hours now ..... H2O Man Jul 2023 #10
Here's another 45 minutes occupied... True Dough Jul 2023 #11
We're really close now... True Dough Jul 2023 #12
Holy shit! H2O Man Jul 2023 #13
It was a dominant performance! True Dough Jul 2023 #17
Terrance 'Bud' Crawford ... Destroyed Errol 'The Truth' Spence Jr. tonight. doublethink Jul 2023 #14
Well said! H2O Man Jul 2023 #15
Jermell Charlo at 154 or Boots Ennis ... at 147? doublethink Jul 2023 #16
I don't know about Charlo True Dough Jul 2023 #18
I like Boots. H2O Man Jul 2023 #19
Definitely, True Dough Jul 2023 #20
Right. H2O Man Jul 2023 #21

H2O Man

(73,791 posts)
2. I'm looking forward
Sat Jul 15, 2023, 06:45 PM
Jul 2023

to it! My son got to hang out with Bud last year, and is hoping for him to win. I really like and respect both men, and think it may come down to the best of three fights. However, Spence is outgrowing the division ..... he has a big frame for a welterweight, and cutting weight gets old. I expect he'll likely move up in weight after this.

True Dough

(17,455 posts)
5. There are definitely high expectations, H2O man
Fri Jul 28, 2023, 12:26 PM
Jul 2023

Let's just hope it's not a close fight that is tarnished by a controversial judges' decision. There's too much of that in boxing!

H2O Man

(73,791 posts)
6. Right!
Fri Jul 28, 2023, 12:54 PM
Jul 2023

No questionable decision, no bad calls by the referee, no purposeful fould, and no cuts from head butts.

I keep going back and forth on who will win. I slightly favor Bud. But very slightly.

True Dough

(17,455 posts)
7. From the analysis that I've been listening to
Fri Jul 28, 2023, 01:19 PM
Jul 2023

the consensus seems to be if Crawford can keep to the outside and box smartly, he should be able to pull it off. But if he gets drawn inside and winds up in a brawl with Spence as the fight progresses, that would very likely be bad news for Bud. So we'll see if he sticks with the game plan or if Spence can use his physicality to overwhelm him and throw off his strategy.

H2O Man

(73,791 posts)
8. Spence is a great
Fri Jul 28, 2023, 02:08 PM
Jul 2023

body-puncher. That could be a huge factor. But then again, Bud is a great body puncher, which is also a factor. Like you say, ring geography and distance will most likely determine the outcome. It could go to a decision ..... but it could end either way in a round or two. It's not often that there is a fight this even on paper.

H2O Man

(73,791 posts)
10. Less than 24 hours now .....
Fri Jul 28, 2023, 11:55 PM
Jul 2023

not that I'm counting down!

There are a number of interesting things on youtube that I've been watching. I'm not sure if there is another 23 hour's worth, though!

H2O Man

(73,791 posts)
13. Holy shit!
Sun Jul 30, 2023, 12:48 AM
Jul 2023

That was amazing. I kind of favored By, but not by much, and I never thought it would be so one-sided. And great respect for Spence. Not so much his corner -- they should have stopped it, at very least between rounds at the end. That type of punishment isn't good.

True Dough

(17,455 posts)
17. It was a dominant performance!
Sun Jul 30, 2023, 07:48 AM
Jul 2023

Nobody had even put Spence on the canvas before and Crawford did it three times before earning the stoppage!

The stats from the fight were lopsided too, as you would expect:


doublethink

(6,824 posts)
14. Terrance 'Bud' Crawford ... Destroyed Errol 'The Truth' Spence Jr. tonight.
Sun Jul 30, 2023, 01:37 AM
Jul 2023

DAMN ... no wonder all these guys kept avoiding Bud over the years. Yes they did. Rematch at 154 lbs won't make a difference. Master performance by Crawford tonight. I too was 'kinda shocked' it was so one sided. Props to both men for stepping up.

H2O Man

(73,791 posts)
15. Well said!
Sun Jul 30, 2023, 02:08 AM
Jul 2023

As Teddy Atlas has said, there is something extra with Bud, something special with his intensity. I've lost no respect gor Spence, but I have for his corner. At the last press conference, it seemed like his trainer thought this was all about him. After the second round, I said to my sons that he wasn't being helpful. And it got worse. You shouldn't let your fighter risk career-ending damage like he did.

Bud's jab was like a piston. It was hurting Spence, and knocking him off balance. And off balance is no way to be when Bud is throwing very hard shots behind that jab. His accuracy was intense. Just watching Spence's legs even a few rounds earlier, I could see he was being allowed to take too much punishment. Respect for his brave attempts to fight on.

doublethink

(6,824 posts)
16. Jermell Charlo at 154 or Boots Ennis ... at 147?
Sun Jul 30, 2023, 02:57 AM
Jul 2023

What's next for Bud? Probably Charlo ... 3rd division Undisputed. Think Bud called him out tonight. Think Charlo is up against Canello sometime in Sept though? Should be a great couple of months the second half of the year for boxing. Fun stuff.

True Dough

(17,455 posts)
18. I don't know about Charlo
Sun Jul 30, 2023, 08:00 AM
Jul 2023

He's moving up a couple of weight classes to take on Canelo (and take home the megabucks that go with it). If he beats Alvarez, then the appeal is definitely there, as are the belts to give Crawford the three division undisputed champion status that add to his legacy.

But what if Canelo stops Charlo or makes him look bad? It doesn't preclude a fight with Crawford but it loses some luster even though it would be a loss at super middleweight.

I don't care about a rematch with Spence either. That fight last night was so one-sided that it's not desirable to do it again.

But the prospects at welterweight are few. Maybe Boots Ennis?

Crawford turns 36 in September. He's got little time left on the clock, despite looking absolutely amazing last night. I hope he thrives, no matter who his next opponent is.

H2O Man

(73,791 posts)
19. I like Boots.
Sun Jul 30, 2023, 02:18 PM
Jul 2023

If I were his manager, I'd get some more experience, rather than fighting Bud at this point. And it's not that Ennis wouldn't have a chance at winning if they fought now. But I'd wait, because he'd have a better chance in the future, with more experience and Bud aging. Of course, Boots would want the fight as soon as possible -- that is a young lion's nature.

I respect Charlo. (I feel bad for his brother's having issues that are sideling his career.) But I anticipate Canelo hurting him, and taking him out in the second half of their fight. While Canelo is beginning on the downside of his career, he is on a very distinct level from Charlo. In fact, as Spence moves up, I'd think he could beat Charlo -- if the extreme punishment he took last night hasn't damaged him. He hadn't been active, and hadn't had to cut that weight in some time. Not to say that was the reason he lost, but he didn't have legs under him after the second round. I told my boys that the way Bud's piston-like jab made Spence lose his footing early on suggested that he had weakened himself making weight. Of course, I'm not a fan for cutting weight ..... fight at your strongest weight. Just my opinion.

True Dough

(17,455 posts)
20. Definitely,
Sun Jul 30, 2023, 04:35 PM
Jul 2023

weight cutting can be grueling. It can take away a fighter's gas tank and make them more susceptible to getting KO'd. That's surely why Spence is pushing for the rematch at 154.

I take your point about Boots. He just turned 26 and could use a couple more years of seasoning and then get Crawford at 37 or 38. If that opportunity still exists by then. If not, there will be another formidable foe waiting in the wings. That's how the game has always worked.

H2O Man

(73,791 posts)
21. Right.
Sun Jul 30, 2023, 06:02 PM
Jul 2023

I find Boots extremely impressive. Just an intense talent. But objectively speaking, he still has a few things he needs to work on. Like every fighter -- even the greatest champions -- he does make some mistakes. Now, going into the fight last night, it seemed to me that Bud made some more than Spence. In previous fights, there were times he threw some punches a bit wide. I know that one could hold he did this to draw offense from his opponent, in order to fire counter-punches. That's valid. But he has gotten clipped a few times, for example by Gamboa, a crafty, fast fighter of very high quality. Spence didn't make as many mistakes, largely because he almost exclusively did his A game. Yet there was little evidence he could adjust.

Last night, Crawford's accuracy was unreal. More, he not only took advantage of Spence's error of staying directly in front of him, he punched through Spence's combinations with beautiful short, straight punches. Spence anticipated being the stronger man. But Bud seemed more powerful when they were tied up, partly because his center of balance was a little lower, and largely because he is much stronger than Spence thought.

Spence's trainer failed him by not having a B game. I'm not saying it would have, or even could have, changed the outcome. For there have been very, very few fighters that I've ever seen that could shift their tactics mid-round in the way Crawdord can. And you really can't teach that.

At this point, I think Bud would not only exploit the errors Boots sometimes makes -- and I'm not suggesting there are many -- but he would force him to make more. Bud is used to performing on the Big Stage. Boots hasn't been there yet. He needs to build up on that type of experience.

Latest Discussions»Culture Forums»Sports»Boxing: Super Fight this ...