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JHan

(10,173 posts)
Thu Feb 23, 2017, 09:29 PM Feb 2017

How many times must the intersection of class and racial discrimination be explained?

I've run out of paper to draw road maps.

Run out of pencils and the ink in my pen is dry.

I don't even have a crayon for this ish.

I am tired repeating myself to people online and offline.

But I now realise it should not be my burden to explain shit.

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Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
1. It's pernicious.
Thu Feb 23, 2017, 11:05 PM
Feb 2017

There are a lot of white male pundits who keep the ideas that all flavors other than white straight cis male are "identity politics." People keep parroting it like they've discovered a new toy.

I think people lunge for this because they think it absolves them from worrying too hard about racism. If racism is an oppression from the ruling classes, then the class warrior only has to worry himself with his own concerns, because obviously anything that helps him will just apply to the rest of the working class automatically and will fix everything.

Then he can get comfortable telling everyone that working on oppression is a time-wasting distraction, and not "the real issue." Yeah...

(Sorry, I'm in a ranty mood.)

JI7

(89,390 posts)
2. i think in many cases they know it wont result in equality for all
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 06:15 AM
Feb 2017

and they are just fine with that.

to them the good ole days are usually when some republican like reagan was in office or before civil rights.

and they keep going to the clinton or obama administration as when things got bad even though those were the years when ALL people made gains and things were moving towards more equality.



Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
3. I've been trying to assume good faith, but what you say conforms to the way they behave.
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 10:28 AM
Feb 2017

Deep deep down they must believe that this is a zero-sum system, despite their rhetoric. That's why they take the side of people who voted for Trump, despite protesting that they are really on the side of the oppressed.

Lots to think about there.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
5. I'm sure if we "fixed" the class struggle, this never would have happened:
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 01:10 PM
Feb 2017

because there's never a racial motive when it comes to who gets resources..

Flint water crisis: Report says 'systemic racism' played role

The 129-page report does not claim there were any specific violations of state civil rights laws, but says "historical, structural and systemic racism combined with implicit bias" played a role in the problems, which still linger in the city's drinking water almost three years later.

"The presence of racial bias in the Flint water crisis isn't much of a surprise to those of us who live here, but the Michigan Civil Rights Commission's affirmation that the emergency manager law disproportionately hurts communities of color is an important reminder of just how bad the policy is," state Sen. Jim Ananich, a Democrat from Flint, said.

It was an emergency manager, appointed by Gov. Rick Snyder, who had the cash-strapped city's water supply changed from Lake Huron to the Flint River in 2014 -- a decision reversed more than a year later amid reports of corroded pipes and elevated blood lead levels.
 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
6. "If racism is an oppression from the ruling classes"
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 01:21 PM
Feb 2017

is technically correct. The problem is how that theory is applied. The fact is, the concept of "Whiteness" and "Blackness" are basically the analogue to bourgeoisie and proletariat in Europe; not that the latter doesn't exist here, but essentially we have two (and really three if you take cismale versus not-cismale into account) dynamics of base versus superstructure intersecting in America, and they affect the entire nature of classism.

read below if you want to hear a bit of heavy Marxist class/race analysis :

Essentially the key to the American class structure is the concept of "Whiteness", aka, the group of people that are considered full people in society. The thing to understand here is that it's a very sliding scale - at some point, European groups like Spaniards/European Hispanics, Chinese, Slavs, Irish (!), Italians (!!), and even Germans (!!!) were not considered "white" (which is why some of those groups were enslaved, and others used as cheap labor that wasn't quite as bad as slavery but wasn't too far off). Thus we see that "whiteness" has no relation to European descent, so much as it relates to where you are in the power structure and how much and what kind of resources one has access to.. Whiteness has adapted however, by incorporating these groups, giving them more privilege, and thus maintaining the underclass (Irish, Italians, Slavs, and even some Hispanics became "white", Asians are still affected by racism but they've been encouraged as a model minority and as such have gotten more access to resources)

Right now it's even trying to adapt by elevating people of the most marginalized groups as long as they adhere to the power structure (Ben Carson, Milo Yiannopoulos , Caitlyn Jenner as examples.). While one may struggle with class oppression as a "White" person, there is a powerful psychological wage associated with being "White" that mitigates that oppression, as well as provides avenues for escaping it (basically the proverbial American Dream, and a huge source of the myth that if you work hard enough you'll make it). For example, even poor whites get better access to services, infrastructure and opportunities than non whites.

(I'd argue that some groups of nominally "White" people are in the process of being kicked out of the club that that's outside the scope of this conversation)

So the struggle regarding "White" people in America is to get them to voluntarily *give up* their Whiteness, to give up the preferential access to resources, prestige and respect that Whiteness confers, so as to struggle with marginalized groups for a better, more equal world that in the long run, will serve them better. Of course, this is hard and risky so people would rather not deal, and would pretend that it's not THAT big a problem, even if you're nominally left. Trying to argue that "fixing class will solve everything" doesn't work, not because class isn't important (it does intersect with everything) but because it betrays a lack of understanding of how class in America works.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
9. Good write up!
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 03:16 PM
Feb 2017

I hope you get these published some time, and not just let them only be on DU. Excellent analysis.

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
10. I need to add more meat and sources
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 03:37 PM
Feb 2017

And I get distracted too easy, and I feel like not much of what I'm writing is actually "original", but I'm pretty sure I could put together a 5-10 page essay

JHan

(10,173 posts)
11. Have you read Toni Morrison's essay "Making America White Again"?
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 03:42 PM
Feb 2017

part of a series of reactions to the elections in The New Yorker?

In order to limit the possibility of this untenable change, and restore whiteness to its former status as a marker of national identity, a number of white Americans are sacrificing themselves. They have begun to do things they clearly don’t really want to be doing, and, to do so, they are (1) abandoning their sense of human dignity and (2) risking the appearance of cowardice.

And another observation she made years ago that the negro was seen as a counter point - a figure to contrast oneself against, "AT least I'm not black" , to be white and free was desired. It'll take more than several generations to shake this off.

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
12. In biblical terms, Whiteness is an aspect of what Jesus referred to in this verse in Mark 8:36
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 03:56 PM
Feb 2017

"What profits one to gain the world, if they forfeit their soul?" Whiteness may give access to power and resources, but I do believe it corrodes the soul. This is where I shift from a material analysis to a moral and spiritual analysis. Power doesn't just corrupt morals, it corrupts the soul, and as much as it is a boon, it's also shackles in a sense, because the demands of keeping that power are anthethical to true happiness, fellowship and community.

Would you want to be as unhappy, fearful and negative as a Trump supporter? Meanwhile we face slavery, Jim Crow, police brutality and the like and we stare it down like this:

[img]ttp://[/img]

How much peace and faith does it take to forgive Dylann fucking Roof? Whatever is, we have it, or at least some of us have it (I can't rise to that level, sorry, but many of us can).

JHan

(10,173 posts)
13. ++++++++ I can't rise to it either, I can't muster handing out redemption cheaply..
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 04:00 PM
Feb 2017

to those who despise us.

It's dehumanizing. My sympathy stops at the point where the aggressor refuses to acknowledge their heinousness.

Yet when I see others do this, even though it irks me, I know some do what they must for peace of mind.

Quayblue

(1,045 posts)
4. It's not your burden
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 12:39 PM
Feb 2017

Their ignorance is feigned. Acknowledging racism will require them to take a look at their own complicity and they don't want to do that.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
7. Yes, because it's not hard to understand..I can handle ignorance..
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 02:10 PM
Feb 2017

What I can't handle is arrogance while ignorant.

But as my mom always says .. "not my circus, not my animals"..

Quayblue

(1,045 posts)
16. Mothers be having that wisdom.
Sat Feb 25, 2017, 12:11 AM
Feb 2017

I feel you. And loving your Mom for her saying.

The arrogance is infuriating and at this point for me, it no longer hurts, just business as usual.

You been on point around here.


ismnotwasm

(42,083 posts)
14. Dear God I don't even know anymore
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 04:55 PM
Feb 2017

Personally I think white people (myself) need to quit giving other white people a pass on this shit. Call them out each and every time --but they still don't hear, they go into full on dumbass "yeah but" mode. Sick of them. But I will persevere.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
15. it's not your burden either.. in all fairness..
Fri Feb 24, 2017, 05:29 PM
Feb 2017

but we all have to do our bit to call it out when we see it, till we're blue in the face it seems..

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