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Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:43 PM Feb 2016

Is Thinking Black Leaders are Sell-Outs the Ultimate White Privilege?

http://alabamaliberal.com/is-thinking-black-leaders-are-sell-outs-the-ultimate-white-privilege/

In episode 9 of “A Year Long Conversation” we dissect the divisions in the progressive movement between age, gender, and particularly race. Because there’s a weird phenomenon out there: young, white progressives who have had relatively good lives seem to think that even black leaders are now part of “The Machine.” They seem to view themselves as more progressively pure than groups who have the most to gain from progressive politics.

We’ve seen this in white progressives’ (cough, Bernie, cough) belief that they could somehow be better for black rights than the first Democratically elected racial minority-President in the history of the world. We’ve seen it in the accusations that the Congressional Black Caucus and particularly veteran Congressman and Civil Rights legend John Lewis are “sell-outs” for backing Hillary. We’ve also seen it at an Occupy Wall Street rally in Atlanta that refused to let Congressman Lewis speak solely because, you know, he’s “The Man.”

There are those that will say this is the ultimate form of progress that a Civil Rights legend could go from Selma to “Sell-Out” and that the black movement is viewed as a full part of the mainstream, but I’m not sure I would see it that way. To me, the idea that any black leaders who have power and real political influence are just another cog in The Establishment is naively wrong at best. At worst, it’s morphing modern progressivism to ignore the voices it supposedly wants to help and think it knows best how to solve other communities problems with solutions that may not have any real affect on how they live.

<snip>



35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Is Thinking Black Leaders are Sell-Outs the Ultimate White Privilege? (Original Post) Starry Messenger Feb 2016 OP
+1. K&R 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #1
Every time I think about the crap at OWS Atlanta I'm just in awe. giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #2
Well...to call a black leader a "sell-out" Chitown Kev Feb 2016 #3
Exactly. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #5
thank you for posting this rbrnmw Feb 2016 #4
I saw it on Twitter a couple of days ago, but it seemed timely for today. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #9
Alabama Liberal should brush on his/her history. virgogal Feb 2016 #6
Vicente Guerrero (Mexico, black) and Benjamin Disraeli (Great Britain, Jewish) Chitown Kev Feb 2016 #7
Thanks--I figured there would be more. virgogal Feb 2016 #12
Even though the election process was different we can't forget John Hanson NWCorona Feb 2016 #22
Yes!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Feb 2016 #8
It shows an incredible amount of self-absorption wildeyed Feb 2016 #10
Yeah, I want to extend this coversation after the primary election too. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #11
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #17
Amazingly, the point of the article has zoomed right past you. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #18
Actually ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #19
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #21
"so you sit quietly and feel uncomfortable for a bit Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #31
K&R brer cat Feb 2016 #13
K&R ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #14
Well said (nt) Recursion Feb 2016 #15
K&R, thanks for posting emulatorloo Feb 2016 #16
I see name removed is hanging out again ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #20
He really does! Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #23
He knows my first name ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #24
Oh, for real? I missed his post to you and didn't see he'd used your name. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #25
Yup ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #26
Oh Jesus. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #27
I know whoever that is doesn't scare you Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #33
I am always sad wildeyed Feb 2016 #35
Sometimes we white people... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2016 #28
++++ Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #29
Thank you, Starry Messenger! Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #30
I like this blogger, I hope he writes more. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #32
Yes!, you can't stop progress! Kind of Blue Feb 2016 #34
 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
2. Every time I think about the crap at OWS Atlanta I'm just in awe.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 10:56 PM
Feb 2016

John Lewis deserves the upmost respect especially if you call yourself a liberal.

I'm not saying you in particular, I can't come up with better phrasing. Sorry.

 

virgogal

(10,178 posts)
6. Alabama Liberal should brush on his/her history.
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:40 PM
Feb 2016

Obama wasn't the first democratically elected racial minority in the "history of the world".

There may be others but Alberto Fujimori of Peru was a minority who became president.

The "history of the world" is a very long time so who knows?

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
7. Vicente Guerrero (Mexico, black) and Benjamin Disraeli (Great Britain, Jewish)
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:43 PM
Feb 2016

were elected in the 19th century.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
10. It shows an incredible amount of self-absorption
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 11:56 PM
Feb 2016

and entitlement, IMO. Is it the "ultimate" white privilege. Hmmm, there are so many to choose from Also, for the record, I don't think many of them are nearly as progressive as they think they are.

I had some interesting conversations with both white and black activist I know about privilege and how to be a solid ally around the time Ferguson was happening. It is an interesting and complex topic. One thing we agreed about, as white allies, was that sometimes it demanded the ability to sit quietly and feel uncomfortable. You can be infuriated by injustice and totally committed to the cause, but your white body is never on the line the way black bodies are. And you still get to have the white privilege, even when you work to end it. People sometimes distrust your white presence at first. But you care about justice, so you sit quietly and feel uncomfortable for a bit, until people get to know you. Talking less and respecting more is alway good place to start. So yeah, calling out black leaders, not cool.

I dunno. Maybe Clinton is just more willing to sit with the uncomfortableness of it all. There IS no real answer that I see, not at this point. The only thing I see to do sometimes is to keep working at relationships.

I think this is a great topic, and I want to post more in about detail about it after the primary is past. It is about so much more than a campaign, but I think no matter what is said right now, the campaigns will shade the topic.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
11. Yeah, I want to extend this coversation after the primary election too.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 12:08 AM
Feb 2016

I hesitated posting it because it goes on more in the context of the present election, and I think that limits the subject for some who will shut down on partisan lines.

But we've seen this going on with discussions of President Obama too.

Response to wildeyed (Reply #10)

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
18. Amazingly, the point of the article has zoomed right past you.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 02:24 PM
Feb 2016
young, white progressives who have had relatively good lives seem to think that even black leaders are now part of “The Machine.” They seem to view themselves as more progressively pure than groups who have the most to gain from progressive politics.


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #19)

Kind of Blue

(8,709 posts)
31. "so you sit quietly and feel uncomfortable for a bit
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 02:40 PM
Feb 2016
until people get to know you

I'm looking forward to that topic later, too, because being comfortable for so many of them is what they crave right now.

Thanks!

ismnotwasm

(41,976 posts)
24. He knows my first name
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:06 PM
Feb 2016

Isn't that interesting? Called me "Melissa". I think I'm supposed to be scared. Since, I've let a few people know what it is, it's not to bothersome, but interesting, don't you think?

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
25. Oh, for real? I missed his post to you and didn't see he'd used your name.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:11 PM
Feb 2016

That's creepy af to me. People who do that do not have healthy boundaries.

ismnotwasm

(41,976 posts)
26. Yup
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:13 PM
Feb 2016
Cruva

And under MOST circumstances

A wealthy, black congressman would have more privilege. So what exactly is your point, Melissa? Other than proving what a ridiculous, bullshit concept "privilege" is, I mean.

So a cab won't stop (allegedly) for John Lewis in DC . Boo fucking hoo. I wish I had his "problems". He only had his own race to blame for that anyway. Even black cab drivers admit they won't take other blacks, and there's a reason for that that has nothing to do with "white privilege".


Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
27. Oh Jesus.
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 03:16 PM
Feb 2016

I'd say that guy has a whole list of problems, but being oppressed by John Lewis is not one of them (as if). I wonder who name removed is? Hopefully MIRT will do an IP check.

Kind of Blue

(8,709 posts)
33. I know whoever that is doesn't scare you
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 02:45 PM
Feb 2016

ismnotwasm, but I'm so sorry to see again a throw-back moron still thinks fear is a good tactic to use to feel better about himself. The lowest disgusting denominator when one has nothing else.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
35. I am always sad
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 03:06 PM
Feb 2016

when I get a reply from named removed and never got to actually read it. Named removed seems to be a big fan of my work these days

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
28. Sometimes we white people...
Sat Feb 27, 2016, 10:29 PM
Feb 2016

just need to shut our pie holes. This is one such area. I couldn't believe the dog piling that happened here because John Lewis endorsed HRC. It was disgusting.

Kind of Blue

(8,709 posts)
30. Thank you, Starry Messenger!
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 02:32 PM
Feb 2016

It's an excellent find showing that we and our allies are invested in stopping the brutal narratives written about us. The beauty part is that we win by constantly dragging the process to the point and not crazy beliefs.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
32. I like this blogger, I hope he writes more.
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 02:42 PM
Feb 2016

There's a lot of crap to wade through in the process, there's a lot of privilege that won't go down without at fight, but you can't stop progress, as they say.

Kind of Blue

(8,709 posts)
34. Yes!, you can't stop progress!
Sun Feb 28, 2016, 02:51 PM
Feb 2016

I started following another young hard-hitting blogger. It was a thing of beauty: focused, confident, and take-no-prisoners eloquence. Bravo!

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