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True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
Wed Jul 22, 2015, 06:56 PM Jul 2015

Accusations of "Cultural Appropriation": A thoroughly racist concept that needs to go away.

Let's be very clear about something: Culture does not belong to anyone, because human beings are individuals that can do what they like, listen to or create whatever kind of music pleases them, put their hair however they please, etc. Just as one person is not required to dress a certain way based on their race, so another person is not prohibited from dressing that way based on not being a member of that group. As long as they're not mocking the other group, there is nothing morally questionable in liking a style and participating in it.

The entire concept of "cultural appropriation" is insanely racist, internet hivemind nonsense that has no connection to liberal-progressive values, and I'm very disturbed seeing it leeching into the mainstream of left-wing discourse. Pigeonholing people and telling them what their tastes are supposed to be based on their race is literally racist. Not figuratively "literally," literally literally. Racist.

This isn't much of a priority problem on the subject of racism, but it is annoying how openly it's being preached, and how bizarrely the people engaging in it think they're speaking out against racism by being hugely racist. An idiotic idea bothers me the most when it believes itself to be progressive and is the opposite.

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Accusations of "Cultural Appropriation": A thoroughly racist concept that needs to go away. (Original Post) True Blue Door Jul 2015 OP
Well done, thanks! haikugal Jul 2015 #1
Bull. Black culture BELONGS to black people. Period. Full stop. bravenak Jul 2015 #2
where it end? I.e., elehhhhna Jul 2015 #4
Wear whatever you want. bravenak Jul 2015 #5
You seem to be contradicting yourself. True Blue Door Jul 2015 #6
You are improperly using words. bravenak Jul 2015 #7
Which words? Please explain how I am in error. True Blue Door Jul 2015 #8
You do not understand cultural appropriation properly. bravenak Jul 2015 #9
If you're being sarcastic, use a tag. Otherwise, explain what it is you think I don't get. True Blue Door Jul 2015 #10
You should seek out the answers by googling 'cultural appropriation, black feminism' bravenak Jul 2015 #11
Or, alternatively, you can justify your own comments. True Blue Door Jul 2015 #12
So nothing to see here, everybody is equal? Everyone is on equal footing. fleabiscuit Feb 2017 #22
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #17
It can be forced onto cultures too, i.e. Middle Eastern culture forced onto Europe via the Romans arcane1 Jul 2015 #3
cultural appropriation is only an option for the majority noiretextatique Aug 2015 #13
The problem is that the very idea of "cultural appropriation" contains racist definitions. True Blue Door Aug 2015 #14
i don't consider adopting clothing or hairstyles cultural appropriation noiretextatique Aug 2015 #15
Ever thought of substituting the concept of "defines" for "belongs to." nt fleabiscuit Feb 2017 #23
Interesting topic davidpdx Sep 2015 #16
Are you saying that AA's who talk of cultural appropriation ismnotwasm Nov 2015 #18
I'm aware of the historical concept of Acculturation LanternWaste Dec 2015 #19
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2017 #21
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2017 #20
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
2. Bull. Black culture BELONGS to black people. Period. Full stop.
Wed Jul 22, 2015, 07:42 PM
Jul 2015

White folks do not own black culture and do not get to make decisions among themselves over whether it's okay for them to appropriate our culture without us talking About it, pointing it out, rejecting it, and ridiculing them when they think they can just come in and decide that they somehow own a piece of us in some way.

If you take anytime to understand other culture you would not be so arrogant ad to think you can just intellectualize and make decisions about something that is not your to decide on.

What is really really racist is when people talk over black folks, steal their culture and then call them the racist for complaining about appropriation. It is the epitome of white priviledged thinking and it is ass backwards. Do you own a piece of Eskimo culture too? Nigerian? Arab? Chinese? No, you don't. It is not yours.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
4. where it end? I.e.,
Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:03 PM
Jul 2015

I've seen serious arguments that white women shouldn't wear braids.
B/c black women wore them originally.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
5. Wear whatever you want.
Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:04 PM
Jul 2015

Just don't try to pretend to be what you are not or say you own it too. It is an affectation for you that you can cast off easily.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
6. You seem to be contradicting yourself.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 07:34 AM
Jul 2015

One moment you're arguing for cultural segregation, saying in effect that people should "keep to their own kind" as you define it, but then you say "Wear whatever you want." Which is it?

A culture is not defined by stopping other people from imitating it. All culture is appropriated, and re-appropriated, forever and across all lines because human beings are not defined by race.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
9. You do not understand cultural appropriation properly.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 07:42 AM
Jul 2015

You should seek out black feminists for answers.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
12. Or, alternatively, you can justify your own comments.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:09 AM
Jul 2015

Enlighten everyone with your deep understanding of these issues.

fleabiscuit

(4,542 posts)
22. So nothing to see here, everybody is equal? Everyone is on equal footing.
Fri Feb 10, 2017, 09:28 PM
Feb 2017

No group has a structural advantage over another? Good to know.

Response to bravenak (Reply #2)

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
3. It can be forced onto cultures too, i.e. Middle Eastern culture forced onto Europe via the Romans
Wed Jul 22, 2015, 08:15 PM
Jul 2015

Then, centuries later, that Middle-Eastern/European hybrid culture was forced onto the children of indigenous Americans. The near ubiquity of Spanish in our hemisphere is the classic example of that.

It's a fascinating topic, though not often pleasant.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
13. cultural appropriation is only an option for the majority
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 06:43 AM
Aug 2015

that's why it is called appropriation. it is not the least bit racist, but it is a comment on the unquestioned perogative of imperialism and racism to appropriate...whatever. is this even an option for most POC? NO. you think bubba waving a confederate flag is going to accept my adoption of my english ancestors as foremost, given my black skin? NO. but i must accept some white woman who really, really wants to be black as black because she lies about having a black father and wears braids? NO.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
14. The problem is that the very idea of "cultural appropriation" contains racist definitions.
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 12:17 PM
Aug 2015

If a set of things "belongs" to a race, then that must mean another set of things doesn't.

It must also mean that racist trolls who go after people for "acting (insert other race)" are somehow justified.

Styles are an individual choice, and a separate topic from the matter of ethnic identity you raise. Someone who claims to be something they're not is lying, and that's a meaningful fact to the people they lie to. But the idea that a person's race circumscribes what kind of clothes and hairstyles they're allowed to wear, what kind of music they're allowed to listen to or make, etc. is laughably racist and backward.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
15. i don't consider adopting clothing or hairstyles cultural appropriation
Tue Aug 4, 2015, 01:56 PM
Aug 2015

so no need to continue this conversation.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
16. Interesting topic
Sat Sep 19, 2015, 05:09 AM
Sep 2015

I read a bit about it to gain a general understanding of what cultural appropriation is. I had never heard the term before. Personally I have become very interested in learning about different cultures since I moved to South Korea almost 12 years ago. Dissertation for my doctoral degree was on how foreign consumers interact with small- and medium-sized businesses here in Korea, so it briefly touched on culture.

After the reading the strongest example I think I can come up with is the Washington (that NFL team) using a Native-American name. That has been a rather contentious issue the last few years. It seems like Synder is not going to change the name no matter how much pressure is put on him. Interestingly, most of the press has stopped using the term (the one I won't say) as sort of an informal boycott.

ismnotwasm

(41,857 posts)
18. Are you saying that AA's who talk of cultural appropriation
Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:52 PM
Nov 2015

Are racist?

Wiki actually has a decent article on it

Cultural appropriation is a sociological concept which views the adoption or use of elements of one culture by members of a different culture as a largely negative phenomenon.[3] Generally, an assumption that the culture being borrowed from is also being oppressed by the culture doing the borrowing is prerequisite to the concept. This view of cultural borrowing is controversial, both in academic circles, and in general society. According to proponents of the concept of cultural appropriation, such cultural borrowings are problematic for a variety of reasons, ranging from group identity, and questions of cultural oppression, to claims of intellectual property rights.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
19. I'm aware of the historical concept of Acculturation
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:17 PM
Dec 2015

I'm aware of the historical concept of Acculturation (the process of cultural change and psychological change that results following meeting between cultures), but cultural appropriation is a new term/concept to me. I'm going to feel like a right stupid half-wit if it turns out I've been reading the latter as the former.

Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #18)

Response to True Blue Door (Original post)

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