Bump firing a modern semi-auto w/high capacity magazines

[Kaleva]

In this video, one watches a man explain how to bump fire using his RRA LAR-15 9mm with a 30 round magazine:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/82431826/

I've seen comments in GD about how easy it is to convert a semi-auto such as the AR-15 and any semi-auto knockoff of the AK-47 to full auto. I don't believe that's commonly being done here in the US. For one reason, a person can get a very lengthy prison sentence just for having in one's possession an illegal auto.

On the other hand, the bump fire technique coupled with the easy availability of high capacity magazines gives a person essentially a select fire auto.

Now here's a video showing a slide stock that can be fitted to many semi-auto AK-47s and AK-74s. With high capacity magazines, you got yourself a (legal in most states) machine gun.

&feature=related

For those who want stricter gun control, going after guns such as the AR-15 (which is an excellent small game hunting rifle) and the semi-auto versions of the AK-47 is, IMO, a wasted effort. They'd be better served by going after the high capacity magazines.

[ileus]

1. ATF says the stocks are legal.

BTW the AR can be an excellent medium and large game rifle.

I'm stuck between a 500 bewulf, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, and maybe a 300 blackout. I just can't decide what upper to go with next.

I can get the 500 or 6.5 from just across the street from AA...my dealer lives just outside the gates. LOL

[Kaleva]

2. Here's a link for the slide stock for AR-15s

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/

You are right about the AR-15 being a very good medium to large game hunting rifle. I had the .223 round stuck in my head.

[oneshooter]

7. The BATFE also claimed that a shoelace was a full auto.

[Turbineguy]

3. Great idea!

Looks like that guy could get a lot of bystanders. And a great way to hunt. See something you like and shoot everything in the vicinity.

Safe Harbor disclosure: I'm in an MLP that holds funeral service providers.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. Hunting usually has maximum number of rounds in the weapon limitations.

Ducks? 3. Deer? 5 in my state.

[Johnny Rico]

4. This isn't true full auto.

Slide fire stocks let the firearm shoot very rapidly in the semiauto mode, but:

1) It would be awkward...at best...to try to use this mode in the prone position.

2) It's even less accurate than "normal" fully automatic fire because of the back-and-forth motion of the stock.

[Kaleva]

9. True. If it was, the guns would be highly regulated.

[Clames]

5. Pretty useless to go after magazines.

They've tried that already remember? Talking about things that don't even have serial numbers.

[GreenStormCloud]

6. Inaccurate.

Notice that the barrel doesn't stay tightly on target but jumps around.

BTW - bump fire can be done with a rubberband on many semi-auto centerfires. However it is not very accurate. In this demonstration he has a rather large group for a short range.

[ileus]

8. Bump fire is a even bigger waste of ammo than full auto.

Kinda like full auto it's fun for a magazine or ten...however.com it's gets expensive quick with todays ammo prices.

[Johnny Rico]

11. It would be fun to bump fire a .22, but I don't know if there would be enough recoil for it to work.

At least you wouldn't burn through $40 of ammo in a few seconds...

[rl6214]

10. Not really

"On the other hand, the bump fire technique coupled with the easy availability of high capacity magazines gives a person essentially a select fire auto."

Your accuracy become next to nothing when bump firing a semi auto so it really does not give a person

"essentially a select fire auto.""

[Kaleva]

12. The accuracy of the gun using such a method isn't really the issue here.

What I'm trying to get at is those who want guns such as the AR-15 and the semi-auto versions of the AK-47 banned because they feel those weapons pose a threat to the safety of others are misdirected. IMO, the gun itself shouldn't be the focus of their attention.

An AR-15 with a hunting legal magazine is just a semi-auto hunting rifle. There really ought not be any debate about such guns unless one desires to ban all semi-automatics which is a political impossibility. The argument on both sides ought to be restricted to the magazines.

[Johnny Rico]

13. A number of states are now removing the restriction on magazine capacity while hunting.

This makes the term "hunting magazine" increasingly fuzzy...

[Kaleva]

15. But still, the debate ought to be resticted to magazine capacity.

The semi-automatic gun itself, including those that appear to be military like, shouldn't be the issue unless one desires to ban all such weapons.

[Johnny Rico]

16. If I were to argue for gun control, as absurd as the concept is,

I would simply advocate a complete ban on semiautos, including confiscation. A slightly less draconian proposal would a complete ban on magazines of an arbitrary capacity, also including confiscation. Given the amount of semiautos & normal capacity magazines out there, any ban which didn't include confiscation would be pointless.

Of course, actually implementing such confiscation would be a nightmare...

[Hoyt]

42. That's true because all those law abiding gun culture members won't turn them in.

[eqfan592]

53. With good reason.

It would be a pointless, useless law that would soak up more political capital than any party would want to spend and accomplish none of its objectives.

HEY, it's just the sort of law you seem most interested in, Hoyt! Why worry about fixing the real sources of our violence issues when you can spend your time demonizing gun owners!

[Hoyt]

57. One of the real contributors to violence is the ready availability of guns -- guns some supposedly

"law-abiding" fool bought because he liked the feel of a tactical/assault weapon in his hands and what it made him feel like. If we'd restricted guns decades ago, we'd be a lot better off. But you guys couldn't care less as long as you have yours.

[rl6214]

18. But then you are just advocating for a fixed magazine gun

Where do you set the limit for mag capacity? Five rounds, 10 rds, 20 rds? It's know different than saying a handgun should be limited to 8 rds, or 10 rds but really 15 rds is standard and if you are going to go 15 then why not 18?

Magazine capacities are not the issue.

[Kaleva]

20. "Magazine capacities are not the issue."

An AR-15 is a semi-auto and is functionally no different then a Remington Model 750. One shot for every pull of the trigger. While the AR-15 and semi-auto versions of the AK-47 look like military assault rifles, they are not.

Someone may watch the videos in the OP and say "My God! Those guns need to be banned!". However, I'll say that the gun itself shouldn't be the issue for them. It's the high capacity magazines that allow one to shoot alot of lead down range quickly.

[rl6214]

22. I know exactly what an AR15 is

I've built 7 or 8 of them. The issue has never been the gun, it is the features they tried to ban in an effort to ban the weapon itself because of the evil looks it has. As one of our resident anti-gun zealots, it's got the features that appeal to the "baser instincts" of the "gun culture" crowd. Limiting the mag size is not going to do any good as has been proven by the proliferation of the AR15 during the AWB. There are sooo many hi cap mags out there that any attempt at a ban would be useless, as it was during the AWB. I probably have 75-100 brand new in wrapper 30rd mags for my ARs.

As far as the high cap mags that "allow one to shoot alot of lead down range quickly", it takes two seconds to pop out a 'normal capacity' magazine in install a new one. Just look at the VT shooter, Cho, he fired 170 shots using normal 10rd magazines. He reloaded 17 times, each and every time he reloaded was an opportunity to take him down but it takes only seconds to reload. If he had a hi cap magazine, one that dosen't function quite as well, there may have been a bigger window in which to get him but we'll never know.

[Kaleva]

27. Hi capacity mags weren't outright banned during the AWB

Those who had them could still keep them and the mags that were manufactured prior to a certain date were still legal to import, buy and sell. The only thing the AWB did was make the mags more expensive.

Why the great demand for high capacity magazines? You say they are not as reliable and one can easily change out 10 round mags.

[rl6214]

36. I'm well aware of that, that's how I was able to accumulate many of them

but I got most of them after the "ban" expired.

As far as hi cap mags not being reliable, I was refering to the type that Loughner used. There quite a few unreliable AR mags as well but I make sure I only buy hi quality, not just any old 30 rounder that comes up. As far as why have the 30 rounders, much more enjoyable to go out shooting and not HAVE to change out constantly.

[spin]

59. During the "ban" almost all of the members at the shooting range I shot at bought ...

magazines with a capacity greater than ten rounds. Of course they paid a small fortune for each. I was one of the few who didn't but then I am basically a wheel gunner. I had a couple of Clolt .45 Autos that I like with the standard mags and a Beretta 40 cal that had two ten round mags but 10 rounds seems to be enough for me.

I don't buy into the "fill the air with lead" philosophy.

[aikoaiko]

14. FYI to those unfamliar with "bump firing"

The requirement for a semi-auto is that one trigger pull shoots one round, the next round is chambered, and another trigger pull is required to shoot the second round.


One can "bump fire" a semi-auto when you pull the trigger to shoot the first round (and not release the trigger finger) which causes the firearm to recoil backwards enough for the trigger to reset, the supporting arm/hand pulls the entire firearm forward and your clenched trigger finger "bumps" into the trigger causing the next round to fire. (Obviously, I'm not a technical writer). Because the trigger is pulled each time a round is fired, it is still semi-auto in function.

You can do this without this stock, but the stock makes it much easier to do (safer, too).

[Atypical Liberal]

17. bump firing is over-rated.

About all bump-firing does is give the average Joe the thrill of firing a machine gun once or twice.

You aren't likely to hit anything smaller than a barn, and you'll burn through $10 worth of ammo in a few seconds.

After you do it a few of times and go, "Hmm. That was $30", the novelty wears off.

[Hoyt]

34. Those sick thrills that gun lovers get sell a lot of guns in this country.

Last edited Wed May 2, 2012, 07:24 PM - Edit history (1)

[Atypical Liberal]

49. "sick thrills"

I suppose you think any other thrill of mastering a difficult, dangerous activity is sick, too, like racing, or hang gliding, or archery?

[Hoyt]

50. Nope, I don't. Racing on public streets, or playing Ted Nugent in public might be sick, though.

[Atypical Liberal]

51. But people get the same kind of thrill

From legal racing, hang glinding, skydiving, fencing, martial arts, or archery.

[Hoyt]

52. But, when the walk down the street they aren't carrying the "thrill producer" in their waistband.

Actually, I think the thrill of skydiving/fencing/etc is very different from that produced by shooting silhoutte targets, or posing in front of a mirror with guns.

[eqfan592]

54. Thats because you're a bigot.

You don't understand it, and you're afraid of it, and this creates a desire in you to vilify it and those that AREN'T afraid of it.

[Hoyt]

56. You got it, I am a bigot against those who carry guns in public. You can talk about my fear, but

I don't strap a friggin gun or two on to venture out into public. And, believe me -- I know guns -- although I outgrew them decades ago.

[dizbukhapeter]

19. These types of bump firing devices have been available for years

Since the eighties, all you had to due was go to the ad section of a Soldier of Fortune magazine to find one. Theres a reason they never caught on, its a gimmick.

[Meiko]

21. Great way

to abuse a perfectly good weapon.

[ellisonz]

23. Death Spewer

[Meiko]

24. Is that you

or are you trying to make a point?

[ellisonz]

30. *le sigh*

http://abcnews.go.com/US/body-mt-rainier-shooting-suspect-found/story?id=15273425#.T6GBG7-bSrM

[GreenStormCloud]

37. Are you trying to say that all gun owners are like him? N/T

[ellisonz]

38. Are you trying to say that guns like those don't appeal to people like him? n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

45. So what if they do?

You want to keep me from having guns because somebody like him wants them too. No dice. I will keep my guns and accept that a very tiny fraction of a percent of gun owners will do bad things with them.

[ellisonz]

47. I want to keep you from selling them to him without so much as a question asked. n/t

[eqfan592]

55. Then open up the background check system to the public. (nt)

[ellisonz]

58. Then mandate compliance... n/t

[Callisto32]

25. When will the abuse end!?

Of this kind of picture, I mean.

Every time I see one of these, I think "you, sir, are a part of the problem."

[ellisonz]

31. I'm part of the problem?

[Callisto32]

48. Oy.

No, the guy in the picture.

Pictures like that generally look pretty foolish, and help to paint gun owners in a bad light. It's kind of like being an in-your-face open carrier. It isn't exactly wrong, but it doesn't help.

[Hoyt]

33. I would not doubt that he has been right here in the gungeon proclaiming his love of guns.

[NewMoonTherian]

28. I'd love to try one of those slide fire stocks.

As long as worthless, wasteful legislation like the machine gun registry still exists, I'm glad there are people out there with the ingenuity to render those laws completely impotent.

[Meiko]

29. You can

still buy machine guns, but man are they expensive.

[Hoyt]

32. Ain't that something to practice and aspire to . . . . . .What a bump firing dork.

That, gun culture members, is one reason we have to restrict guns. Too many fuckers like him.

I think you also have to go after the people who are into that kind of crap. If someone is into high cap mags, and "assault" weapons however you want to define them -- that's reason enough to prohibit them from acquiring them. And, yes, it is a catch 22.

[Johnny Rico]

35. And just think...there isn't the slightest chance that what you just advocated will actually

be enacted in the foreseeable future.

Gee willikers, that must be frustrating...

[Travis_0004]

39. There are many people on this forum that own 'assult' weapsns, and hi capicity magazines me included

I think bump firing is wasteful, but if somebody is at a private range, and wants to do it, whats the harm?

There are many voters who will not support a ban on 'assault' weapons, me included. If a candidate wanted to renew the assault weapons ban, he would not get my vote, even if that means the other party is likely to win. In that regard, I can be a single issue voter, and leave the vote for that office blank.

There are many valid reasons to have a high capacity magazines. Reloading is a pain, I would rather load a few magazines before I go to the range, then spend my time there shooting, not reloading. I also compete in shooting competitions, where the AR-15 is used by the vast majority of shooters, because it is an accurate, and reliable weapon. The assault weapon ban was nothing but a bill to make people feel safer by banning cosmetic features. A bullet from a standard semi auto, and an assault weapon have the exact same performance characteristics. Banning a bayonet lug, collapsible stock, pistol grips, and flash suppressor does nothing to make anybody safer.

So I'll gladly admit to owning an AR-15. Its a fine weapon, and I have a lot of fun every time I take it to the shooting range.

[Kaleva]

40. A contradiction in arguments about high capacity magazines

Comments have been made that a ban on such magazines won't do any good because it's so easy for bad guys to swap out magazines anyways. On the other hand, people are arguing that swapping out mags and reloading them is a pain.

Why is it not a problem for bad guys involved in a shootout with other bad guys or the police but such a hindrance for those at a shooting range?

[gejohnston]

41. it is not the swaping out the magazines

it is the time spent reloading the magazines while at the range.

[Kaleva]

43. And this isn't a problem for bad guys?

[gejohnston]

44. as best as I can tell,

they don't reload magazines at the range.

[Travis_0004]

46. I use the term reloading 2 different ways.

Reloading IE, removing a empty magazine, and putting in a full magazine is quick and easy.

Reloading, IE taking an empty magazine and putting 30 rounds into it one at a time is a pain.

If somebody is going to commit a crime, they buy a bunch of magazines and load them ahead of time.

They don't bring one magazine and a bunch of bullets.