Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumRemington Arms Company threatens to pull plant out of New York in response to Bloomy-backed gun bill
ALBANY — One of the world’s major gun manufacturers is threatening to pull its plant out of New York over a gun bill pushed by Mayor Bloomberg.
Remington Arms Company, in a recent letter to Gov. Cuomo, said it may be forced to bail on the Empire State if a law requiring bullet casings to carry unique markings is enacted.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/remington-arms-company-threatens-pull-plant-york-response-bloomy-backed-gun-bill-article-1.1050781#ixzz1qEhHIOuo
I'm sure there are 48 other states that wouldn't mind Remington moving to their state. A hint to Bloomberg. Perhaps you should see the movie "The Blues Brothers". Pay particular attention to the scene where Aretha Franklin tells Matt "Guitar" Murphy "You better think of the consequences of your actions".
Nah, just go ahead pushing a program that costs millions of dollars, hasn't resulted in any convictions and will cost your fellow NYers a thousand good paying jobs. Idiot.
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DonP
(6,185 posts)Les Baer and two other manufacturers, all located out in the Quad Cities area, just moved across the river to Iowa over threatened legislation and surcharge taxes. We lost a lot of skilled machinist jobs as well as some good basic production jobs and all the tax revenues they provided.
Springfield Armory and a few others are watching the legislature very closely.
bluerum
(6,109 posts)AH1Apache
(502 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Hope NY leaders don't kowtow to them, especially over guns.
Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)
AH1Apache This message was self-deleted by its author.
burf
(1,164 posts)they should run Remington out of town on a rail! Maybe with the bicycle toll they want to enact on NYC bridges will offset the taxes and payroll lost if Remington moves.
one-eyed fat man
(3,201 posts)is already here in town. Right across the road from the airport, actually. There is plenty of room in the area to expand. A well-trained work force and of course, Fort Knox is here as well. Lots of folks there who like to shoot.
Lots of companies have closed the plants where they started and moved their corporate headquarters. Especially when hard-nosed bean counters run the program. A 'family" business might have loyalties to a region, MBA's don't.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)Remington bought H&R Firearms, based in Gardiner, MA and Marlin Firearms, based in North Haven, CT and shut both of those plants down and moved the equipment to Ilion, NY and Kentucky because doing business in CT and MA was too expensive. If it becomes too expensive to do business in NY, they leave, they have already proven they'll close plants and lay people off.
OPOS
(73 posts)Microstamping can be defeated with 2 swipes of a file, and just from natural wear on a firearm. It isnt like Riflings lands and grooves on a Bullet or firing pin and extractor markings....The technology just isnt ready and reliable.
But Lord Bloomberg will get his way regardless by threats and spending to secure his feifdom.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)burf
(1,164 posts)AH1Apache
(502 posts)
ileus
(15,396 posts)Dr_Scholl
(212 posts)n/m
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)Yet no one has demonstrated working technology.
The proposal has more flaws than COBIS which is NY's current handgun-DNA database.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)We had a thread here advising those involved in a shooting to turn off their cell phones, not to say anything to police, and the like. Next we'll have one telling how to obliterate microstamping, etc. in case you make a mistake and shoot an unarmed kid.
AH1Apache
(502 posts)All a criminal has to do is take a nail file and file down the firing pin or if you really want to fuck with someone, just go to a shooting range and pick up spent shell casings and distribute them at a crime scene to implicate someone else.
Your continued accusations of gun owners are vile and mean spirited.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)After all, they probably bought a stolen gun. I'd like it to get traced back to the original fool who bought it and let it get stolen.
Even if microstamping only helps solve one crime, it's worth it. Might make your guns worth a little less because it will be too easy to trace them back to original owner (who either had it stolen, sold it in a back alley, or shot some poor kid and decided to run than explain).
AH1Apache
(502 posts)There you go again with the vile accusations. If you knew anything about what your talking about you would know that everytime the firing pin strikes the shell, the microstamp would become less readable.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)back to you. I get that.
AH1Apache
(502 posts)Just to reiterate, microstamping does not work for all the reasons myself and others have stated here, but if you want to believe it does, knock yourself out.
Clames
(2,038 posts)...on technology, metallurgy, and process engineering. It doesn't work. You are advocating something that has already proven to be a failure and an expensive one. I guess wasting taxpayer money is ok with you? Didn't New York already waste $40M+ on testing this and had nothing to show for it?
Straw Man
(6,624 posts)Not quite -- NY spent about $10 million on COBIS, a program which archives a fired shell casing from every new semi-auto handgun sold in NY State, for future forensic use. In eight years, the COBIS system was only used in one court case, and it did not result in a conviction.
Gov. Cuomo has agreed to scrap COBIS as part of his efforts to balance the state budget. A wise decision, although $10 million is a drop in our deficit bucket. Now, though, the prohibitionists are touting microstamping as somehow a viable alternative -- now, instead of matching those little striations though a microscope, the forensic examiner can just read a little number that will lead the police directly to the person from whom the criminal stole the weapon. Unless Mr. Criminal acquired his gun through a straw purchase and wasn't smart enough to deface the microstamp. Then the microstamped casings will lead the cops straight to his girlfriend/mother/brother or whoever was dumb enough to buy him the gun.
Several predictions if microstamping passes:
1) Remington will go out of state -- they've already got one foot out the door, having opened a plant in North Carolina.
2) Criminals won't be phased in the least, since most of their firearms come from out of state anyway -- NY already has very tight permitting procedures and mandatory registration of handguns.
3) There will be a renaissance of revolvers as crime guns.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)With a fair amount of empty casings left at the crime scene acquired from shooting ranges.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)traced if the law-abiding citizen fucks up and kills someone by mistake.
Criminals will use stolen guns and/or ones bought in back alleys. They will also dispose of them. They won't care if a microstamped casing is left behind.
But, the law-abiding guy -- like Zimmerman, who thinks he might do something stupid -- will do as you say.
So how many of you law-abiding carriers would switch to revolvers to defeat microstamping? Or will you grab others' casings while out shooting silhouette targets, just in case you put a bullet in some unarmed teenager? You guys sure have some not so law-abiding concerns.
AH1Apache
(502 posts)I am thoroughly enjoying watching you become more and more ridiculous.
Just sayin
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)"Better to be thought an idiot and remain silent, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Straw Man
(6,624 posts)Exactly. So what's this law for again?
Um ... Zimmerman had already called 911. He self-reported. No microstamped brass was needed to find him -- he was right there waiting for the cops. Do you have a point? Do you even know what a point is?
I own revolvers as well as both new and old semi-autos. The microstamping law wouldn't affect my decisions in any way. It's still a stupid and pointless waste of money.
I will continue to abide by the law, as I always have. You can retract your sleazy insinuations at any time, or just crawl back under your rock.
Clames
(2,038 posts)...is a problem.
So how many of you law-abiding carriers would switch to revolvers to defeat microstamping?
You see, nobody has to switch to anything. 500 - 1000 rounds put though a semi-auto and the subsequent cleanings will wear away the microstamping. Simple wear and tear does the job.
You still not understanding or are you just giving up?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)It's his ass-backward way of trying to add expense to guns and ammo. Fuck rights, he says.
He knows he can't get what he wants honestly, so he'll endorse any and all back-door means to get it.
DonP
(6,185 posts)If this foolishness ever passes I expect Brady and some of the less informed gun control types here, and that's most of them, to start referring to the .38 special/.357 magnum revolver (most common crime gun already) as creating another loophole for criminals.
Then the demands start that all wheelguns be banned as potential crime guns a month or so later.
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)
Johnny Rico
(1,438 posts)
As you can see in the picture, it does eject its brass! Granted, the "brass" is actually made of either plastic or aluminum...
Clames
(2,038 posts)Though in effect, COBIS proved exactly how worthless microstamping is, if not directly. A cartridge from a new gun vs a cartridge after the same gun has hundreds to thousands of rounds put through it are practically impossible to match.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)fees on the guns they keep in their cache and the bullets they shoot.
Like everything of value, it doesn't have to work all the time. Heck, if it helped solve 5% of crimes it would be worth it. Don't you think?
I still believe gunners bitch about it because they know that one day they could be standing there like Zimmerman with a dead, unarmed teenager at their feet. Thus, they don't want any chance of leaving incriminating casing around. Your own buddies have said right here on this thread they'd just go to revolvers. to avoid that.
Heck, some of you are so paranoid that they fear some street criminal is going to rake up your casings at a shooting range and then plant them at the scene of a shooting.
Jeez, do we really want someone that paranoid carrying a gun in public?
AH1Apache
(502 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)just working to protect the 2A
Straw Man
(6,624 posts)Well, ballistic fingerprinting is more of a proven technology than microstamping. Ballistic matches have been made using ballistic fingerprinting, if -- and that's a huge if -- the firearm and the cartridge have both already been recovered by police. But the COBIS concept, which keeps a massive archive of fired cases and tries to match them to cases recovered from crime scenes, has been nothing but a big fat expensive failure for the past ten years. It has solved not 5%, not 4% or 3 or 2 or 1% of crimes, but 0% of crimes, that's zero, ZEE-ROW, zip, zilch, nada. At the cost of $10 million dollars. Apparently that makes some kind of sense in your world -- it does inconvenience law-abiding gun owners somewhat, which is what you're all about, right?
Bullshit. That's B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T. Am I making myself clear? No one on this thread has said they'd "just go to revolvers" -- they said the criminals would. You're making shit up again. Some might call it lying. Do you have any shame whatsoever?
But here's the good news. The budget committee of the New York State Legislature has just axed COBIS and microstamping from the budget.
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/guns/ny-budget-committee-strikes-down-ballistics-imaging-and-microstamping
It's about time.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)One sold by a supposedly law-abiding gun owner in back alley.
Straw Man
(6,624 posts)... and it matched the casings found at the scene. I believe that a stupid and paranoid criminal would choose a revolver to steal or buy in a back alley if he believed that this technology was viable.
So what would microstamping achieve? Just what COBIS achieved: nothing. Nothing. Got it? Nothing. At tremendous expense and great inconvenience.
BTW, feel free to verify or retract your previous statement about people on this thread saying they would "go to revolvers." Any time now.
one-eyed fat man
(3,201 posts)Pick up a five gallon bucket of brass. Use it to salt the crime scene. They will spend the next six months arresting each other.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)It doesn't apply to *them*.
Which should be a great big red flag for *any* regulation.
HALO141
(911 posts)For the moment lets ignore the fact that no such benefit has ever been demonstrated.
I'm very curious, Hoyt... At what point would it cease being "worth it?" For the sake of argument... Would it be worth a $5 cost hike in the price of the firearm if such a change resulted in solving 1 crime in a year? What about a cost hike of $10 or $100? What if it raised the price of any given firearm by $1000 or $5000? At what point would this benefit be "worth it?"
Society makes these choices all the time. Given complete and absolute authority, I (or anyone else) could EASILY reduce traffic deaths to a statistically insignificant number assuming the cost of the changes was not a factor. So how about it? At what point would you say the cost outweighs benefit?
ObamaFTW2012
(253 posts)you can blame car theft victims for buying cars known to be popular amongst thieves, rape victims for dressing slutty, burglary victims for having shitty locks on their windows and doors, gaybashing victims for looking queer, etc.
one-eyed fat man
(3,201 posts)
A flat bastard is not a cross-dresser without tits, but a couple of strokes with one will remove any microscopic markings in the end of a firing pin.
Crooks grind away serial numbers, they swap VIN plates on cars, they forge titles, after all, they are crooks, it's what they do. What makes you think you have got an idea so foolproof a more ingenious fool can't outwit you?
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Hoyt's fun to read if you want to feel like you've been transported back to the thirteenth century. Evidence means nothing to him. He truly believes - something - and nothing will change his mind because the only thing he believes in are his own feelings on the subject. He's talking to himself.
AH1Apache
(502 posts)but it sure is fun to watch him get more and more ridiculous with each and every post.
he does bring obtuse intolerance to a level heretofore not seen since the inquisition.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)I use it to demonstrate the level of bigotry and anti rights fervor some purported liberals have. Open the eyes of the students, most of whom are GLBT and women.
I now have wireless at the range, so some surf DU during breaks...and are incredulous as what they see.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)burf
(1,164 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)But gun owners -- who can see themselves in Zimmerman's predicament of making a bad mistake while toting -- don't want it. I get that.
AH1Apache
(502 posts)rl6214
(8,142 posts) PavePusher
(15,374 posts)burf
(1,164 posts)quotes UC Davis, and The National Academy of Science Study.
When you can't argue the facts, attack the source. Typical Hoyt.
Straw Man
(6,624 posts)Are you suggesting that ballistic fingerprinting led the police to Zimmerman?
Yea, I'm going to read an article by a right wing gun lobby group. Others say it does work.
Really? Who says it works? I'll give you a hint: nobody but the one company that produces it. They're going to be objective, right?
California's law exempts police officers' guns from the requirement. Why would that be?
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)Because only the police can be trusted with guns because they've been tested and stuff?
Straw Man
(6,624 posts)And because no police officer has ever misused a firearm.
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)burf
(1,164 posts)DonP
(6,185 posts)Remington Arms = Big evil corporation making death spewers and death spewer fodder
Microstamping firearms company = Good big corporation protecting people and police
So if I form a company, claiming that I can produce tissue paper based body armor for $500 per cop, I'm a hero?
Even if my product works as well as the microstamping does?
What a great racket and way to get a lot of useful idiots to support me!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Obviously, Zimmerman was not caught by ballistic fingerprinting. He knew he fucked up, and that folks saw him, so he did the only thing he could -- I was threatened and reacted in self-defense.
I'm betting if there were no witnesses, or 911 calls -- Zim would have been long gone when the unarmed teenager was found.
I'd almost go as far as to say that Zim thought of himself as a responsible gun owner who would never use it improperly -- just like many here mistakenly think of themselves) right up until the 140 pound, unarmed teenager popped him good (if that is what happened). At that point, Zimmerman became a not so responsible, law-abiding, well trained, concealed gun carrier. He became what many so-called responsible gun owners would become when cold cocked by an unarmed teenager -- Just another mad yahoo with a gun and hatred.
You got it all figured out don'tcha? Why have an investigation at all? I mean you've convinced me, let' forget the trial and just throw him in jail, and for good measure, let's go ahead and throw all the so called responsible, law abiding, well trained, concealed gun carriers in jail because you don't like us.
Do I really need to add the sarcasm thingy.
Straw Man
(6,624 posts)Like the New York cops a few years back who were doing contract hits for the mob?
Zimmerman called 911 himself. Remember? Or didn't you read that part.
you know he just makes the facts up as he goes along, it really is quite humorous to watch someone make a complete......., well, you can figure it out.
one-eyed fat man
(3,201 posts)You were at your usual three foot hover and spouting about your typical shtick about rude toters and Starbucks, so maybe it is hard for you to remember?
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Whatever the NICS form is. 1174?
And "lawyer up" advice is pretty good. I thought only conservatives were driven nuts when people lawyered up? Or do you view terrorism suspects with equal suspicion when they lawyer up and demand their constitutional rights?
During the 60's, African-American activist groups used to follow around police cars. When the cops pulled somebody over for "driving while black", the activists would pull over behind the cop car and begin yelling the suspect's constitutional rights to him while the cops were asking questions or whatever.
I await your outrage over this.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)It goes on all the time - 
- if we don't get our way, we're leavin' -
shadowrider
(4,941 posts)For any reason they wish.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)And the above gungeon posters should quit whining about "threat" to leave NY.
PS - companies do it all the time to get states to give them tax breaks, nothing at all new here.
villager
(26,001 posts)
burf
(1,164 posts)on the head on Remington moving, if they decide. At what point does an company that has been in the upstate NY area since 1816 say enough with the nonsense of a program that is proven not to solve crime, and an attitude that blames them for criminal use of their products?
It's a wonder they hadn't left years ago.
villager
(26,001 posts)oh wait...
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)1911. Remington did not leave after the Sullivan Act was passed.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)It's their business.............no one elses.
AH1Apache
(502 posts)If it weren't such a ridiculous statement it might be some funny shit and quity frankly, I don't think they give a shit what you think of them.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)supported gun laws you guys cling to.
Response to Hoyt (Reply #50)
AH1Apache This message was self-deleted by its author.
spin
(17,493 posts)honest citizens to carry a weapon and you would also love to greatly limit the right of a citizen in their home to use a firearm or another weapon to stop an intruder.
The result would be to empower criminals and to increase the level of violent crime in this nation.
A citizen should have the "right to shoot" or use another weapon for legitimate self defense.
edited for coherence
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)is a different story, as is someone sleeping on your front porch, or rummaging through your garbage outside.
As we saw in Zimmerman's case, all CCWers ain't responsible nor nearly as law-abiding as they want to believe or try to portray. I know for a fact, a lot aren't.
spin
(17,493 posts)but the statistics show otherwise.
Currently over 800,000 residents of Florida have Concealed Weapons permits. Florida has had "shall issue" concealed carry since 1987 and has issued over 2 million carry permits. Only 168 permit holders have had their license revoked in that period of time for a crime using a firearm after the license was issued. (source: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.pdf)
Other states such as Texas report basically the same results. While those who legally carry concealed firearms are not angels they rarely misuse their firearms in a criminal manner.
From reading your posts, I get the feeling that you automatically assume that anyone who has a concealed carry license is suffering from extreme paranoia and quite possibly has mental issues. Having that viewpoint may be what is causing you to feel that the people that you know who have carry licenses "ain't responsible nor nearly as law-abiding as they want to believe or try to portray." Your reasoning and judgement are colored by your bias against those who legally carry. You have formed a stereotype of those who carry similar to the stereotype that many hold of gun owners that they are all right wing rednecks.
Sad.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)When people buy guns to carry to take their country back and protect themselves from certain groups of people they think are most apt to be criminals -- they are not responsible, they are potential murderers.
I'm sorry, but that is the way I feel. And Zimmerman shows exactly what can happen when guns in public become prevalent and acceptable and laws are written and supported by right wingers who'd just as soon shoot an unarmed kid like Martin as a silhouette target that they practice shooting to get ready for that day.
spin
(17,493 posts)and according to the information that I have gleaned from the news media, it does look like Zimmerman used his firearm in an irresponsible manner. However I am starting to read more new information on the incident. Some of it seems to contradict the first stories. It might be wise to wait for the results of the investigation.
Having said that, I should point out that my question is why did Zimmerman fail to follow the instructions from the dispatcher? Had he done so, this situation would have never occurred and we would not be discussing it.
I seriously believe that the overwhelming majority of those who have carry permits would have avoided confronting Martin. We are not cops nor are we vigilantes. We realize that we lack the training, the badge, the uniform and the authority that a cop has to question a suspect. We carry only for self defense and attempt to avoid confrontation.
As I have pointed out, people who have carry permits are not angels but the statistic prove that only a few are irresponsible. I feel that allowing people to carry concealed weapons has allowed many to use their weapons for legitimate self defense when attacked by a person who intends to inflict seriously injury or to murder. We would have far more tragedies caused by attackers than we have had tragedies committed by people licensed to carry if your idea of limiting or eliminating concealed carry came to fruition.
I found your comments below very interesting.
When people buy guns to carry to take their country back and protect themselves from certain groups of people they think are most apt to be criminals -- they are not responsible, they are potential murderers.
Do you seriously believe that many or all all gun owners purchase their firearms in order to take the country back? Do you feel that all gun owners are racist and look at "certain groups of people" as criminals? Do you believe that all gun owners are "potential murders"? Somehow I doubt that you seriously believe any of those statements. I suspect you merely love to post hyperbole.
Sometimes I feel that you actually do support gun ownership and concealed carry and post off the wall statements to make those who favor draconian gun control look like fools. If so, your tactic may be working.
I should point out that I do not mean to insult you if you honestly believe that all gun owners are potential murderers, but I will mention that technically everybody can be considered a potential murderer irregardless of whether they own a firearm or not. That, of course, would include even you.
Eighty million people legally own firearms in our nation. Few have any desire to use their weapons to "take back their country". Some are racist but that is also true of many people who do not own firearms. 99 percent of gun owners use their firearms in a responsible manner and will never shoot another individual in anger or self defense, let alone commit murder.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)But a bunch who carry would have gone after Martin just like Zimmerman. And I'll bet without that gun he would have gotten down low in his car and hidden until police arrived. Guns in the pocket give people a dose of bravado that gets them and the rest of us in trouble. Go to a gun store, or look on youtube at the folks buying a toter. And, how many times have you heard some gun carrier here talk about defending his neighbors, etc. I don't want any of my Republican neighbors trying to defend me -- they'd just as likely shoot an unarmed teenager as Zimmerman or me climbing in my window because I lost my keys.
spin
(17,493 posts)and they all are non confrontational and I have never heard one say that he wished to blow someone away.
I often enjoyed hanging out in gun stores in the Tampa Bay area when I lived there. The customers who shopped while I was in the stores were usually interested in hunting or target shooting or buying a firearm for home defense. Some were interested in buying a firearm for concealed carry. None ever expressed any interest in being a vigilante.
I rarely watch videos on Youtube that deal with firearms. A lot of idiots with little knowledge of any given subject love to post on a large range of topics and I refuse to waste my time watching them. I personally have never met a person who was experienced with firearms who posted a video.
Our experiences differ considerably.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Yea, a lot of young carriers showing off drawing weapons, shooting Obama shirts, and similar "responsible" use of their guns. Maybe you ought to look a little harder at what is going on with some of this gun junk. And you guys want more like that on the streets.
spin
(17,493 posts)"Why did you leave your car to confront Martin after dispatch advised you not to?"
BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)Could it be because he's a burglar in his Day Job, and having an unarmed populace would make his work easier?
Hey, it's no more fantastic than the Brady jack-off fodder he espouses...
Simo 1939_1940
(768 posts)When it comes to mendacity, hyperbole and scare tactics - the pro-restrictionistas have no peer:
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201203260002
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)HALO141
(911 posts)AH1Apache
(502 posts)spin
(17,493 posts)after all all honest people with concealed carry licenses are vigilantes and looking for an opportunity to blow someone away.
Of course all criminals are at heart good people and they deserve a chance to murder, rape, rob, rape and pillage as they are filled with righteous anger.
Total of course.
HALO141
(911 posts)Hehehh... Why should they? Nobody else does.
sarisataka
(18,654 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 26, 2012, 05:58 PM - Edit history (1)
want a company that makes death-spewing tools of the devil in its state anyway?
burf
(1,164 posts)his buddies have figured there's money to be made dealing with the devil.
sarisataka
(18,654 posts)Are willing to money blood money?
I'm SHOCKED; tell me it ain't so Joe, er... burf
Next are to and to try and tell me Bloomberg has armed guards to protect him in him gun-controlled totally safe city???
spin
(17,493 posts)Maybe New York should pass a law that forbids the manufacture of firearms in the state.
Then firearm manufacturers can move to a more friendly state and produce quality firearms far cheaper than they can in New York. Florida and many other states would be glad to welcome new industry and help reduce the unemployment rate. Such states may offer the firearm industry incentives to move.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)spin
(17,493 posts)you would love to work for them in gun friendly states.
I believe that Strum Ruger moved their manufacturing facilities from Connecticut to New Hampshire and Arizona and they are doing just fine.
Clames
(2,038 posts)Have a 200,000+ sqft industrial plant that's been vacant or underutilized for years that would be perfect for such an operation. Last major tenant was Lucent Technologies I think.
ileus
(15,396 posts)
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)As a bonus they also struck CoBIS from the same budget.
I guess Remington will stay where they are
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)They'll just slap a new coat of paint on it and try to sneak it in somewhere else.
SDDD
Same delusion different day.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)They are still going to vote on it in a few weeks.
Also, the budget has not passed yet either.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Move to Florida. They would be very appropriate in this state.
