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LiberatedUSA

(1,666 posts)
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 01:28 AM Mar 2022

"Civilian arms won't help you against a tyrannical government."

That message didn’t age well, did it? The New York Times had to admit it:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/25/world/russia-ukraine-war?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur#armed-with-assault-rifles-civilian-volunteers-prepare-to-defend-kyiv

I know, I know. Only the cops we protest for killing us should have these guns so as to assure we are at their mercy.

I just wanted to point out civilians are killing Russians with small arms they own or aquired.

4 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"Civilian arms won't help you against a tyrannical government." (Original Post) LiberatedUSA Mar 2022 OP
NYT was referring to our own government ColinC Mar 2022 #1
I just want to point out civilians are killing Americans with small arms they own or aquired. sanatanadharma Mar 2022 #2
Most likely, civilian arms in America will be used multigraincracker Mar 2022 #3
unorganized militia early foot jimmy the one Mar 2022 #4

ColinC

(8,108 posts)
1. NYT was referring to our own government
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 03:35 AM
Mar 2022

...not an invading force -something the most powerful country in the world has little fear of, generally.

sanatanadharma

(3,576 posts)
2. I just want to point out civilians are killing Americans with small arms they own or aquired.
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 06:32 AM
Mar 2022

Yes guns kill. That is why they are manufactured. That is why people want them.

Come back and talk again about this so-called 2nd amendment defense after the Russian armies are actually routed by civilian small arms fire.

multigraincracker

(32,294 posts)
3. Most likely, civilian arms in America will be used
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 06:35 AM
Mar 2022

to over throw a legitimate elected American Government.
But thanks for your concern.

jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
4. unorganized militia early foot
Wed Mar 9, 2022, 08:12 AM
Mar 2022

NYT Article: Civilian arms won't help you against a tyrannical government."
Liberated: That message didn’t age well, did it? The New York Times had to admit it:

I read the NYT article (from a googled search, your link wanted a $1/week fee to 'continue reading'). I did not see where the NYT 'admitted' to your faulty premise. Can you please copy & paste?

Here are some salient quotes:

NYT article: An estimated 18,000 assault rifles, variants of the Kalashnikov {AK47/AK74}, have been distributed in Kyiv.. For many in line, the decision to pick up arms and fight a street battle against one of the world’s largest armies was driven by patriotism.
While some residents have already undergone formal training by the Territorial Defense Force, others in line said they had never even held a rifle.
Mr. M.. turned aside any concerns over arming a civilian population in the capital’s streets, saying that each weapon’s serial number was attached to a passport.


How wonderful a qualification for keeping and BEARING firearms, a passport as a background check.
Here we have similar to what in the US we would call our 'unorganized militia' - consisting of the general population aged ~17 - 60 who are not affiliated with US military or national guards. Thousands of untrained or under-trained civilians some with dubious pasts some who should not even be allowed around firearms, wielding inter alia AK47's and anti-tank weapons. What could possible go wrong? how about friendly fire? how about spartan success? how about blunders?
Only 2 weeks into the conflict with the russians in kiev only about half the time, you brag about some trumped up initial success as if it is turning the tide. US general Dean in the Korean War 1950 fired his pistol at N Korean tanks as they rolled into Taejon (sp) near Seoul, did not stop NK from pushing UN forces into the pusan perimeter in short order.

NYT (note - by well organized they are referring to the Ukrainian armed forces, not the civilian cadre': Well-organized resistance from Ukrainian forces around Kyiv appears to have slowed the Russian military, throwing off Moscow’s initial plans, but despite those successes, the prognosis for the Ukrainian defense remains grim, according to an independent analysis.
The assessment of relatively strong fighting by the Ukrainian military was in line with a Pentagon briefing.. in which officials outlined the slower-than-expected progress of the Russian assault on Kyiv. Defense officials also said Russia had used only about 20 percent of the more than 150,000 troops it had massed on the border.


Only 20% of available invaders have yet to be significantly involved in the invasion. Yet you strut about as if the 2nd amendment is working in the Ukraine because a few unorganized battalions of unorganized Ukrainians are scoring some early foot serendipitous hits. Wait till russian tanks move into better positions.

Ultimately, this strategy may be an important lifeline for the government, which for months has said it expects its military to be overwhelmed in a Russian invasion.

Do tell. Wait till resisting cities are carpet bombed. The best the Ukraine can hope for is a stalemate which would be a WIN for them. Civilian resistance will collapse as they realize the insurmountable odds they are up against. If it comes down to house to house fighting as in wwII Stalingrad the Ukrainians will fare better, but even then they are a dwindling group which will perforce suffer from fatigue and demoralization and traumatic stress.

NYT: Olena Sokolan, a business manager, stood proudly in a line made up mostly of men.
“I am a woman, but I am strong,” Ms. Sokolan said. “I don’t have any fear. I’m ready.”


Brava Olena, you are an admirable woman. You do not realize that if you were an american white or black lady in America in 1791 you would have been disallowed this ability as well as a firearm?

this link worked better for me: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/25/world/russia-ukraine-war#armed-with-assault-rifles-civilian-volunteers-prepare-to-defend-kyiv

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