Knife sharpening, what am I doing wrong?

[Paper Roses]

My late husband was able to sharpen our assortment of knives with great results. I am flunking the job.
I have a "Chef's Choice" electric sharpener(#310), a standard steel(the rod thingy) and a 'Diamond Edge Sharpening Steel' like this:

http://www.houzz.com/promo/23680835?m_refid=PLA_HZ_23680835&device=c&nw=g&gclid=CLO_qu7u6MoCFQsbHwodi3EA_Q

No matter how I approach this project, the results are not very good. What is your secret?
My knives are not fancy, some are great old steel, a few are newer stainless. All are brand names that I have picked up here and there.
I don't need anything to match, just need a sharp knife.
The professionals around here charge an arm and leg to so a professional job. Not in the budget.

Any ideas? Thanks,
PR

[flamin lib]

1. This is a pretty good video and simple.

http://culinaryarts.about.com/video/Sharpen-Knives-With-a-Whetston.htm

I personally use an oil stone about once or twice a year and the steel in between. Once the knives are sharp it only takes a couple of strokes and very little pressure to bring the edge back.

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. Actually, I needed that info....

many thanks...

[GoCubsGo]

6. Thank you for that.

I was aware of the binder clip trick, but they were never clear as to how to actually do it correctly. I tried it and messed up my knives. Now, I know how to fix them. Much appreciated.

[DawgHouse]

8. What does the steel do?

[flamin lib]

9. As you use the knife the very sharp and fine edge that does all the work gets bent

over presenting a (relatively) flat edge to the work. The steel realigns the cutting edge, presenting a very sharp point to whatever you are slicing. If you look at a used knife along the cutting edge you can see the sections that reflect differently. The steel 'folds' them back to the cutting edge.

A stone removes metal, a bad thing but necessary to restore the cutting edge on worn blades. The steel removes almost no metal and just restores the edge. It can't sharpen a dull blade.

Hope that helps.

[DawgHouse]

10. Thank you.

[rsdsharp]

3. I've never used a 310.

I have a Chef's Choice 120, and it does a good, but not amazing job. The key to sharpening knives is to maintain a consistent angle. The magnetic guides in the 120 do that automatically. It may be that you aren't allowing the guides to maintain the angle for you. That said, my brother has a Chef's Choice (I don't know what model) that he doesn't like.

Sharpening (as opposed to honing) removes metal from the blade. Your regular steel doesn't do that, it merely realigns the edge of the knife, which bends out of line ever so slightly with use. it will not sharpen a dull edge. Properly used, it WILL bring a sharp edge, which seems dull, back into alignment.

The diamond steel will sharpen an edge, but if the correct and consistent angle isn't maintained while using it, the diamond steel will also dull a sharp knife.

Frankly, I believe the easiest sharpener to use is the Spyderco Triangle Sharpmaker.

http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-Sharpener-204MF/dp/B000Q9C4AE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454960247&sr=8-1&keywords=spyderco+triangle+sharpmaker

While it is slower than my Chef's Choice, it will literally put a hair popping edge on a knife after 160 strokes (40 strokes [20 on each side] on the flat side of the medium ceramic stones, 40 stokes on the angle of the medium stones, 40 on the flat of the fine stones, and 40 on the angle of the fine stones.) Once the knife is sharp a few strokes is usually all that is necessary to maintain the edge.

I worked for several years as a meat cutter (as did m y brother), and own literally dozens of sharpening tools and systems. The Spyderco is what I recommend to the novice sharpener, and the one I use if I want a super sharp knife..

[ManiacJoe]

14. That spyderco sharpener is where it is at.

I have one, plus a few other similar sharpeners. They make life so simple.

[Major Nikon]

4. Here's a simple yet effective method for using the Chef's Choice

Take a black permanent marker and color just the bevel (tip) of the knife on one side. Run the knife down the first stage of the sharpener on the side you colored. Draw the knife through the stage at about 1 inch per second. So if you have an 8 inch knife, it should take 8 seconds to pass through the stage. Use as little pressure as is required for the edge of the knife to make good contact with the grinding wheel. For heavier knives, the weight of the blade is all you should need.

Count each pass. After each pass, look for the mark you made to disappear on the bevel. It's particularly important for it to disappear at the very edge, but it should disappear along the entire bevel. Once the mark is gone, make another mark on the other side of the bevel and run the knife down the other side of the first stage for the same number of passes you made on the first side of the bevel. Once complete check to make sure the mark you made is gone from the bevel. If not, continue until it is counting your extra passes, and then make the same number of extra passes on the first side. The idea is to make the exact same number of passes on each side when you're done. After this the knife will be sharp, but won't stay sharp for long unless the bevel is polished. Time to move to the 2nd stage.

Make 4 passes on each side of the bevel on the second stage. Examine the bevel with a magnifying glass. It should start to have a mirrored appearance. Now make 4 more passes on each side and look at it again. If it looks just as mirrored as the last time, you're done. If not, make 4 more passes on each side and look at it again. Keep doing this until you can't notice any difference.

[sir pball]

11. You don't really need to Sharpie when you're using a CC.

Since the guides hold the angle consistently, you really just need to pass it through until you feel the burr, then repeat for the same number of strokes on the other side. I've never had to mark anything I've done on my machine, a quick thumb stroke across the edge does it.

The Sharpie is really only needed if you're trying to hand-sharpen a knife on its existing bevel and haven't developed a good feel for when the blade's settled in...once I got that down I haven't had to ink anything since.

[Major Nikon]

12. That's true, but I had a couple of reasons of specifying it's use in this instance

For one thing, when you're sharpening a knife that has been previously sharpened by someone else, you don't necessarily know how the blade has been profiled. So if the bevel was previously set 15 or 25 degrees and you're trying to sharpen it with a Chef's Choice at 20 degrees, it will take several more passes to reprofile the bevel. The sharpie gives you a good indication of this, which would be a particular problem if the blade had been previously sharpened to a more obtuse angle because the entire bevel must be ground down before you'll ever get to the tip.

For someone who is not used to sharpening a knife, feeling for the burr is tricky, particularly if the sharpening stone isn't very aggressive. So while that might be the best technique for sharpening a knife, it's hard to explain that to someone unless you are sitting right next to them and can let them know when the burr is adequate.

[sir pball]

13. Good point.

I sometimes forget that since most of the time I am standing right there to demonstrate and explain. Course, while I do love my machine, I think every cook should be able to "stone-and-hone" (or polish, but that's an entirely separate topic)...it's one of those primitive fundamental things.

[Warpy]

5. The angle on the sharpening steel is a lot shallower than you think it is

That was lesson #1 for me. Also, most knives will only need that electric sharpener once every few years if you give it a couple of zipzaps across the steel whenever you use it. If you take the microscopic burrs off the knife's edge on a daily basis, sharpening will last longer.

My own kitchen is slightly different, I gave my fancy chef's knife away to a coworker whose house burned down and all my knives are now MAC knives. Most days, I just drag them across the unglazed bottom of a piece of pottery. I have the MAC sharpening ceramic to use if they start to feel at all dull. I still use the electric sharpener on my cleavers, but that's it.

[rusty quoin]

7. I've been using a Messermeister ceramic rod knife sharpener lately.

It looks like and is used like a steel, but is also like a ceramic stone used for honing. I got it because steeling is not always enough. I guess what I'm doing is honing with a stick.

I don't like to sharpen much if possible, because you lose a little knife, or chisel (woodworking) each time you do it.

As with honing, the angle is important, but I eyeball it and it is good enough. I use running water as the lubricant.

It's not a solution for you Paper Roses, because you need to get the correct angles back to your cutting edges, and there are posts here which explain it well.

I just am happy with the product I described...it is fast and convenient.