If I were an American Jew, I’d worry about Israel’s racist cancer.

[Israeli]

by Daniel Blatman | Mar. 7, 2014.

If I were an American Jew who held Israel dear, I would view the crisis afflicting the greatest Jewish dream in modern times with despair.
When sitting down to Shabbat dinner with my adult children, I would hear that Israel no longer represents the values on which they were raised: human dignity, equal rights, a pluralistic society, and the obligation to fight for the weak and the persecuted. In the eyes of America’s future economic and political leaders, Israel no longer has a place in the family of enlightened nations. It has become the South Africa of the 21st century.

If I were an American Jew, I would conclude that this was a time of emergency. It’s not the Iranian threat that endangers Israel’s survival, it’s the moral and ethical collapse of its society.
But if the vision of an open, egalitarian and peace-loving Israel is important to Jews around the world, they can’t leave the chances of fulfilling it in the hands of the Israelis alone. The racist cancer, after 47 years of occupation and domination of another people, has spread deep into Israeli society.

World Jewry must help Israel be cured of it. It must speak out and act. It must come out openly and sever any economic, cultural or political tie with any person or organization that promotes turning Israel into a racist apartheid state, whether a settler, a rabbi who preaches violence, or a politician who promotes racist legislation.

And Jews must cooperate with the shrinking groups of Israelis who have not yet lost hope that it’s possible to stop this downslide toward the abyss.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.578365

[Israeli]

1. and if I were a non Jewish American ....

New poll shows that if the two-state solution collapses, U.S. public favors democracy over Jewishness.

Although Secretary of State John Kerry has said that "failure is not an option" in these talks, the reality is that both Israelis and Palestinians assume that there is only a slim chance of finding a conflict-ending solution. The president himself put the odds at less than 50 percent. With the Obama administration's goal to reach a negotiated settlement set for the end of April, we could be witnessing the death of the two-state solution. A key, but often unasked, question is whether the American public even cares.

If the Obama administration is right that the window to reach a two-state solution is closing, the plurality of Americans who do support that option may start thinking about other ways to resolve the conflict. If efforts to negotiate creation of a separate Palestinian state fail, my poll shows that about two-thirds of those who had preferred the two-state solution would shift their support to a one-state solution, with equal citizenship for Jews and Arabs.

For Israelis, a shift in U.S. public opinion toward a one-state solution -- which is not even an option on the negotiating table -- would be extremely problematic. That is to say, most Israelis prefer not to make the choice between Israel's Jewishness and its democracy but when forced to do so, they are divided: Roughly half of Israeli Jews say that they care about Jewishness and democracy equally, while a quarter favor one over the other.

While Israelis are divided over whether to prioritize their state's Jewishness or democracy, Americans' preferences are less ambiguous. When asked which of the two options they favor for Israel, two-thirds of respondents chose democracy over Jewishness. Unequal citizenship is simply antithetical to being an American -- whether one is pro-Israel, pro-Palestine, or neutral.

continue reading @
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/03/02/america_plan_israel_two_state

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

3. Americans don't even seem to care about Democracy in their own country any longer.

I say that with all candor, Israeli.

I'm not sure how well educated my fellow Americans appear to be, especially with all the disinformation vomited daily by the MSM...or hidden by the same, and I tend to stay away from polls since the questions asked may be skewed to favor any particular answer.


That being said, I don't foresee Israel, in its present form, to ever consider a one state solution. IMHO and in its present for Israel will keep the status quo for as long as possible with the intent to either choke the Palestinians into some form of extreme poverty and depopulation (good luck with that) or to drive them off: creating another Nakba.

Since US politicians appear to be useless in addressing the simplest form of human rights abuses by Israel, while if legislation passes the USA will give more $$ and cred to Israel, I don't see them leading any public discussion on a two or one state solution. It will just be the status quo.

The only upshot is that, and I will give the world community a boost here, there is a grass roots movement that really catches fire to demand that world politicians take notice and do something about the only Democracy in the Mid-East and its treatment of the Palestinians.

The one thing that politicians anywhere dislike more is public attention to a justifiable wrong and being painted as having done nothing about it or even encouraging it: leading to their possible replacement and loss of power and access.

Ukraine comes to mind as one very good and timely example.


But the USA? IMHO a good percentage of Americans are fat, lazy and intellectually naive, and overall American politicians like it that way.


You are free to tell me I am wrong on any point, and I will take what you write at face value and consider it or respectively reply with a return answer.

[Israeli]

9. I was trying to get you guys opinion Daneel...

ref : " You are free to tell me I am wrong on any point, and I will take what you write at face value and consider it or respectively reply with a return answer. "

I agree with most of what you wrote especially about " the status quo ".

[Scootaloo]

6. And we hold out hope...

That since the United States could shed its ethnocratic ways and make good solid steps towards a fully integrated and democratic society, that our little buddy on the Mediterranean can do it too.

I mean really it's sort of the only option it has in the long run.

[bemildred]

2. I've been worried about it since it became clear Oslo was being trashed.

So yeah. I've been told I was nuts about that many times here.

[Israeli]

10. Me too /nt .

[azurnoir]

4. Long ago when I was new and naive here I asked why on earth could Israeli's not be just Israel's

no matter what religion or ethnic background they hailed from-the chewing I got over that was eye opening to say the least, I hoped and still do that it was not exemplar of how much I'd lost touch, but only of a extreme viewpoint

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

5. I'm glad that you survived the attack of the bigots to continue posting here.

I appreciate your rationality against a sea of mad-hat disinformation.

[aranthus]

7. That still leaves the question of what it means to be an Israeli?

If it just means being a citizen of the state of Israel, then the state will collapse. It has to have some ideological character to it, just as being American, English, French, etc. has an ideological and cultural character to it. As long as in Israel's case you're okay with that ideological and cultural character being predominantly Jewish, then I don't see the problem. I think that Israel is evolving in that direction just as many modern states are.

[azurnoir]

8. Just as America is

Christiancentric in that the common holidays where public schools, government offices, most businesses are closed namely Christmas and Easter are Christian without the US being an official Christian state I do not see Israel changing from being Jewish in that same sense -this is nothing I haven't said in the past and for all I've seen but Saudi Arabia, Iran, ect are Islamic states don't you think that's setting the bar so to speak for Israel pretty low-I do

[Israeli]

12. thats easy aranthus....

ref : " That still leaves the question of what it means to be an Israeli? "

It means being a citizen of The State of Israel , period .
We have our own " cultural character " and its not based on religion .

Notice I dont include the messianic madmen of " Greater Israel " in my definition .

For further reading try :

Israel in Transition from Zionism to Post-Zionism

Since the original goals of Zionism have largely been accomplished or are less relevant today, conditions are ripe for Israel's transition from Zionism to post-Zionism. A post-Zionist Israel—while maintaining its Jewish character and special relationship to world Jewry—would be a state primarily committed to protecting and advancing the interests of its citizens, regardless of ethnicity. In a post-Zionist Israel, the status of non-Jewish Israelis would be up-graded and the status of non-Israeli Jews downgraded. Moreover, Israel would be integrated into the region and engaged in normal, peaceful relations with its neighbors. Many forces are promoting this transition, including the peace process, changes in Israel-Diaspora relations, and the liberalization of the society. Countervailing forces stem mostly from the ultranationalist and Orthodox religious sectors in the society. To advance the transition, Israel will have to address four major divisions within the society: the divisions between citizens and noncitizens, Jewish and Palestinian citizens, Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews, and religious and secular Jews.

http://ann.sagepub.com/content/555/1/46.short

[Israeli]

14. Here is one just for you aranthus....

So you think you are Jewish enough for an Israeli wedding? Prove it

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/.premium-1.556772

How does one prove Jewishness?

“We base ourselves on the documentation people provide ? part of the profession is to authenticate documents. We have criminological machinery for authenticating documents, and we also carry out a personal inquiry in which we hear their story. We have a way to be in touch with archives abroad, or to refer the applicants themselves to the archives. Sometimes DNA testing is needed, and people agree to that, too.”

Did you watch what Shlomo Sand had to say ?
What have we become ?

[Israeli]

11. wish I had been around for that one azurnoir...

Mainly after the Oslo Accords, a new movement started amongst a large section of left-wing Israelis who believe that the state of Israel should no longer declare itself to be a Jewish democratic state and should rather focus on its democratic aspects. This movement seeks to create social equality in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-Zionism

I'm with Tom Segev and Shlomo Sand ....Israel for Israelies :

Watch ...Shlomo Sand: 'There are Israeli, not Jewish people' .

[Israeli]

13. Here is another on the same theme ....

When will the U.S. Jewish community talk peace?

How will the U.S. Jewish establishment, such as AIPAC, confront the prospect of peace for Israel when it is mired in an echo chamber of self-righteous axioms and simplistic thinking?

"How’s it going?" I asked. “Not so good,” he replied. “I was sent to do a story on what AIPAC members have to say about prospects for Israeli-Palestinian peace and nobody is willing to talk about it. All they want to talk about is Iran.”

He was right. Hard-line statements on Iran elicited long standing ovations, time after time, while hopeful comments on the possibility of peace were all but ignored. It got so bad that two prominent Israelis – Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and legendary Israeli high-tech entrepreneur Yossi Vardi – had to urge the armada of pro-Israel lobbyists to applaud comments they made about peace. And when Howard Kohr, AIPAC’s executive director of eighteen years, addressed the crowd with a speech that typically sets the policy agenda for the conference, all he spoke about was Iran.

(snip)

All too often, the conversation on Israel here is poorly-informed, rests solely on simplistic Israeli “hasbara” talking points, and lacks critical thinking. The result is dogma, a set of intellectually crude truisms, which portray Israel as always right, always under existential threat, and her relations with her neighbors as a zero-sum game.

Some free-thinkers, many of them young, have opened cracks in this wall in recent years. On campuses, the dynamic is very different. But within the so-called “organized” Jewish community, inside the establishment, the discourse on Israel is still characterized by point-scoring propaganda and takes place in an echo chamber coated by a thick armor of self-righteous axioms.

The Israeli zeitgeist has proven in the past to be extremely nimble and adaptable. Israelis turn on a dime to accommodate real prospects for peace once their leaders endorse such opportunities.

Their friends in the U.S. have always found it hard to follow suit.

This may be the right time for Israeli leaders – and for leaders in the organizational Jewish community – to think about where they want the hearts and minds of American Jews to be once there is real progress toward peace, and once the price of a peace agreement becomes clear. Israeli leaders, once they choose the right side of history, will want America’s organized Jewish community to stand with them. For their own future maneuverability, it’s time to let some sunshine in.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.578456