Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumThe worst enemy of Zionism is peace - The Guardian UK
Palestine: Diary of a historic month - The Guardian UK
9 November It was inevitable that at some point Jewish settlements in the West Bank would endanger even the trees. This was the thought I had as I was driven through the northern part of the West Bank on a field trip organised by Oxfam, which is working with Palestinian NGOs. The villagers told us that tens of thousands of olive trees have been uprooted to make way for the construction of the Israeli separation barrier. By the time the barrier is finished, in a few more years, one million trees will be caught in the no-go area between it and the 1967 armistice line.
19 November Today I am in far away Edinburgh, and was determined to give myself a break from the rigours of life under occupation only to end up being bombarded with bad news about yet another Israeli invasion of Gaza. This has happened a number of times before and makes me nervous about going away.
I just received an email from Eyad Sarraj, a psychiatrist who lives in Gaza city. He writes: "The worst enemy of Zionism is peace. This is why Israel killed Jabari, the Qassam leader who agreed and installed the latest truce three days ago …" This is how he ends his message: "As I finish writing the whole neighborhood is shaken with successive Israeli bombing. It is 3 a.m. There are rumours about a new truce, but remember, Israel kills peacemakers, with love, Eyad."
My most distressing thought is that Israeli weapons are being tried out on our people. This will boost sales for the Israeli armaments industry enabling Israel to develop more weapons that will need to be tried out in future wars. When will Israel discover that peace can be lucrative too?
29 November The celebrations began long before the vote was taken at the UN in favour of the Palestinian Authority's new status as a non-member observer state. Schools were dismissed early and government departments closed hours ahead of the usual 3pm. By late morning last Thursday, people in every town and city of the West Bank were raising Palestinian flags and making celebratory speeches.
30 November I just read that the Palestinian minister of communications will be seeking full membership for Palestine with the Universal Postal Union. If successful this might mean that we might finally get a post code. We'll no longer need to write 0000 where a post code is required and will stop being the zero people four times over, all thanks to the UN vote. I went for a walk in the afternoon. Yellow signs with black writing have been pasted on billboards by the Fatah Youth movement. They read: "Warning! This is illegally occupied land, State of Palestine, the occupier must leave immediately."
At a reading in Jerusalem of my book, Occupation Diaries, my old friend, David Kretzmer, who has written a lot about the Israeli High Court, is in the audience. Afterwards he tells me he does not agree with me that the court is to be blamed for the failure to de-legitimise the settlement project. Had they tried this the Israeli government would have restricted their jurisdiction to hear cases against the settlements. But he does agree with me that the settlers now are so powerful they practically control the government. This has been proved by Netanyahu's insistence on going ahead with his plans to complete the encirclement of Arab East Jerusalem by building the E1 settlement despite strong opposition by Israel's allies including the US.
Perhaps our occupiers have not seen yet the sign posted by the Fatah Youth Movement.
11 December Well, Israel just invaded the "capital" of our new state. I was awakened last night by the sound of gunshots. It turned out that the Israeli army has invaded Ramallah (recognised under the Oslo Accords as Area A with full Palestinian jurisdiction and so out of bounds for Israeli soldiers).
Israel it seems is bent on continuing to provoke the Palestinians in the West Bank as it is doing in Gaza, where the Israeli army is making almost daily incursions despite the truce.
I wonder whether my friend Hani will hear this news and change his mind about coming on his long awaited Christmas visit. For months he's been fretting over the reception he would receive at the Tel Aviv airport, whether he will be allowed in or deported even though he now holds a US passport. His family are Palestinian refugees from 1948. He was born in Jerusalem and lived as an adult in the United States. He's never been involved in politics. There is nothing Israel can hold against him except that he's a Palestinian. His last email was not encouraging. He writes: "A friend from London gave me an idea of the type of questions I will be repeatedly asked. I am not at all sure I can withstand that."
Perhaps now that Palestine has been recognised by the UN we should place on hold the right of return and work instead on securing from Israel the right of Palestinians just to visit their newly recognised state.
- http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/dec/14/palestine-diary-state-un-resolution-month
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AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)There's plenty of actual NON-authoritarian Zionists who happen to be decent people, too......
shira
(30,109 posts)They not only have a problem with rightwing zionists but also the most left-winged ones as well. They're "fake" progressives. To Hamas, etc.. they're all Jews.
Remember, this is the Guardian, after all...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113411212
Neo-Stalinist propaganda.
What's funny is that the Guardian's heroes in Hamas and Islamic Jihad wouldn't hesitate to hang the Guardianistas' "unbelieving atheists" - as well as the stormfronters posting there - immediately after doing away with the accursed Jews.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)KimonoGirl
(89 posts)What kind of Zionists are those?
Do you mean Zionists who don't agree or support the actions being used in achieving their ultimate goal: The return of Jews to Jerusalem and the Land of Israel as an independent Jewish state? Well, we all know that ain't gonna happen if you want peace to have any chance of existing in that region. More specifically: Jerusalem as a whole will never be solely Jewish and/or a part of Israel without this conflict continuing. Zionism and Peace are an oxymoron.
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)The worst enemy of Zionism is peace - Raja Shenoudeh in the Guardian.
The way you put it, it makes it sound like an editorial comment by the Guardian, and encourages people to regard ALL Guardian writers and readers as anti-Zionist.
KimonoGirl
(89 posts)Newsflash: Most of the world thinks the Israel/Palestine land dispute is unresolved and that Palestinians also have a right to a State of their own alongside Israel. I'm sure there are many writers on the editorial board of the Guardian (and most British newspapers) who feel that way as well.
Deal with it.
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)I am in favour of the Palestinian statehood declaration.
I am thus opposed both to the Israeli government, and to those who think that Israel should cease to have a state at all.
I oppose both the occupation and the so-called 'one-state' solution.
Although I am Zionist in the sense of supporting Israel's right to exist, my 'paranoia' on this particular occasion was that pro-Israel DU-ers unfamiliar with the British media would jump on this to quote views that the Guardian is antisemitic, the most bigoted newspaper in Britain (the title of an article quoted here), etc.
shira
(30,109 posts)....and his fascist, racist, homophobic regime:
http://cifwatch.com/2012/12/09/guardian-editorial-takes-the-side-of-morsi-or-mubarak/
The Guardian doesn't just have it in for Jews. As apologists for fascist, totalitarian rule, they'll throw Egypt's liberals under the bus just as fast as they will Israel's liberals.
They're not just bigoted. They're as far rightwing as it gets.
KimonoGirl
(89 posts)That is interesting.
I am also in favour of Israel's right to exist but I am in NO way Zionist. If I was, for example, I'd have to believe that Jews have some righteous claim to Jerusalem and Palestinians don't. Zionist will NEVER give any part of Jerusalem up. They don't want a "peaceful resolution" or a "two state solution" or any sort of "Palestinian State". Zionism is counter-intuitive to Palestinian statehood.
And who cares what the nutty pro-Israel DU brigade thinks? They support a terrorist government like Israel while at the same time bitching about another terrorist group on the other side. Why do you care what these extremists think? You're far more sensible, fair-minded and reasonable. As you can see with shira's post below, they are beyond any sensible debate.
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:49 PM - Edit history (1)
And since you think Israel's response to rockets is terrorism, then kindly answer the following...
POP QUIZ: A shooter is surrounded by several children. He's starting to fire away into another crowd of children and they're starting to fall down, one after another. 1, 2....3,4. Dead. You're the children's only hope. Either you take out the shooter or at least 40 children die. The problem is you're very likely to take out 2-3 kids surrounding him. Shitty choice, but that's all you've got. Now while you're thinking of a better way, he's just killed 2 more.
What do you do?
If you do nothing, you're just as bad as he is. An accomplice to his murder of >40 kids. On your conscience. Forever. If you shoot him and take out a couple other kids in the process, you should know you're nothing but a terrorist who kills kids (at least according to your logic).
What do you do?
If this isn't personal enough, some of those kids are yours or kids closely related.
King_David
(14,851 posts)What a way to describe fellow DU members.
I see your new here but if you feel that way about fellow DU'rs ... Perhaps you joined the wrong place?
That's outrageous no matter which side says such a thing ... Even here on IP
delrem
(9,688 posts)1. ' at an anti-Zionist demonstration in the Hungarian capital'
''Demonstrators shouted anti-Semitic slogans like "Filthy Jews" and "To Auschwitz With You All ''
This was at an ''an anti-Zionist demonstration ''
2. It's always embarrassing when ...
... an "anti-Zionist" lets their mask slip.
We call it an "ideology malfunction".
3. Hamas at least doesn't try play those games
They say "Jews" .
This choreographed sequence slanders ALL those who debate contra the zionist political ideology (including those who debate on DU) with the very worst of pro-holocaust nazi evil. This slander isn't just common on DU; it appears to be an unifying technique of the pro-zionist argument to equate anti-zionist arguments with anti-semitism so as to slander the opponent with ad hominem dripping with holocaust, blood libel, etc., terminology and imagery. LeftishBrit appears to be in a minority in refusing to engage in this debate-stopping technique - nevertheless it is from that minority that future solutions are made possible.
King_David
(14,851 posts)But besides that muddle , DU members as a group or part of a group were not slagged in those posts as they were here.
delrem
(9,688 posts)"2. It's always embarrassing when ...
... a "Jew" lets his mask slip.
We call it an "ideology malfunction"."
Of course you would!
King_David
(14,851 posts)Jews are an ethnic minority group .
People who have opinions against Jews , Muslims , Zionists , Gays etc are not an identifiable group worthy of thought or protection or even respect.
But your right I don't approve of the way you've written in Jews there and wouldn't approve if you wrote in Arabs or Gays either .....
But it works perfectly when "AntiZionists" or "Bigot" or "antisemites"are written in that sentence.
delrem
(9,688 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)It was in an email written by Eyad Sarraj who is also quoted as saying "Now do you understand why we have turned into suicide killers?". He has written a book about female Palestinian suicide bombers.
KimonoGirl
(89 posts)and the article perfectly illustrates the title's meaning. For Zionism to succeed, the dysfunction in that region (perfectly described in the article) must/will continue and more people will die on both sides.
And alas, you are predictable as ever. I didn't know anything about this dude until you pointed him out. A quick google search made your Fox News-esque depiction of him a lot more clearer. He never wrote a book on Female suicide bombers. Barbara Victor wrote the book and featured an interview she did with Eyad.--FYI the book turned out to be very disparaging of Islam.
The quote you highlighted came from a paper he wrote in 1997 explaining and diagnosing (since he IS a Psychiatrist, funny how you didn't mention that?) what would lead a Palestinian to becoming a suicide bomber. He is also the Chairman of the Commission of Citizens Rights and a recipient of the Physician for Human Rights Award. He appeared before the United Nations fact finding mission into Operation Cast Lead. He is President of Faculty for Israeli-Palestinian Peace International. Dr. Sarraj was arrested three times by Arafat's forces, tortured and threatened with death. ETC.
Despite your predictable attempt to distract from the topic, his point still stands unrefuted.
Response to KimonoGirl (Original post)
Bonobo This message was self-deleted by its author.
