Settlers using West Bank security zones to expropriate Palestinian land

[Little Tich]

Source: Haaretz

IDF turning blind eye as settlers take over private land to expand communities for reserves or agriculture.

Most of the settlements which have taken over privately owned Palestinian lands in order to create security buffer zones have in fact been using the land for other purposes while the Civil Administration turns a blind eye, according to an investigation by Haaretz.

These buffer zones were first created in the wake of the second intifada, when, between 2002 and 2004, 31 people were killed by terror attacks in which the perpetrators managed to penetrate settlements.

This prompted a search for electronic security mechanisms specific to each community to improve the fence and create a secure space between the settlement fence (if there was one) and the settlement’s first line of defense. The intent was to install observation elements in the area, to be able to pursue terrorists as well as to establish a psychological barrier to those attempting to breach the settlement.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.664435

[geek tragedy]

1. Israel is just being Israel.

Everything is aimed at strengthening their dominion over Palestine.

Power and control is the real agenda, security is just the pretext.

[DetlefK]

3. It neatly concentrated Palestinians in one bombable location.

Now you can collectively punish Palestinians without the danger of having to wage that war in your own streets.

[DetlefK]

8. Not quite.

"Egypt could have given them land in Sinai or many other things."
Why would Egypt do that? The Palestinians already have a homeland: The place that used to be Palestine.

When Israel wanted to attack Hamas military targets it had to be careful, because it was israeli territory.
When Israel wanted to punish the Palestinians, it had to do so on an individual basis.

Now Israel can drop leaflets over Gaza, urging all palestinians civilians to leave certain areas, and then bomb the shit out of it, because everybody who's still there is automatically a terrorist.
Now Israel can withhold palestinian taxes or control access to irrigation water for palestinian farmers without affecting israeli citizens.




Israel has no interest in ending the occupation, neither with a Two-State-solution, nor with a One-State-solution. Eternal oppression means eternal security and they have every right to do that because they are God's chosen people and the Palestinians are not.

[6chars]

13. Cut with the chosen people line.

Israel would be happy to have peace and security. They do feel they have a right to security. But it's not because they think they are better than Palestinians. Hamas really stinks, sorry to tell you, and if they are going to be committed to the things they are committed to, they are not going to get very open borders.

[DetlefK]

14. Tell that to Netanyahu and the settlers in the Westbank.

[Little Tich]

17. Maybe you should read up a little more on the early history of Israel.

None of the armies of neigbouring Arab states entered the designated areas of the Jewish state. The Jewish pre-state militias and terrorist groups that later became the IDF were the aggressors who crossed over the border, both into Jerusalem and the areas designated for the Arab state.

I would recommend that you read "The birth of the Palestinian refugee problem revisited" by Benny Morris, it can be found on the internet, somewhere. While he's a prick who justifies all the atrocities as necessary, at least he is intelligent enough to tell the truth about what happened.

[Little Tich]

19. Please name at least one of those Jewish designated areas that were invaded by Arab armies.

I would like to know.

[oberliner]

22. Egyptians Make Four Bomb Raids On Tel Aviv (May 17 1948)

From the Canberra Times archive:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2745602

[Little Tich]

25. Ah, an aerial invasion then.

I just watched the movie "a bridge too far" about Operation Market Garden, an allied aerial invasion in the Netherlands in 1944. Literally thousands of paratroopers were dropped but eventually, the whole invasion was a failure.

Perhaps that invasion in TA was something similar?

[oberliner]

26. Egyptian air force planes bombed Tel Aviv on a daily basis for about a month

On May 18 1948, 42 people were killed in an Egyptian attack on the central Tel Aviv bus station.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

24. Since when is colonization considered defense?

[Little Tich]

4. Just look at the Security Barrier that goes deep into the West Bank.

Only an idiot would maintain that it wasn't primarily meant as a land grab. It's built in the wrong place for a security measure, but in the exact right place for a land grab.

[guillaumeb]

9. If you and I were neighbors, and we had constant disagreements,

would I be within my rights to build a security fence on your land?

And after I built the fence, if I shot your child for crossing into the "no man's land" that I had established between the fence and my actual property line, would the act of shooting your child be acceptable?

And if, in the act of building the fence on your land, I also cut the pipe supplying water to your house, would you have a problem with that?

And if I decided that in the interests of my security, I decided to build a fence around your entire property, with a controlled access gate, and further decided that you would have to pass through a checkpoint each time you wished to enter or exit, how would you feel then?

All of these things, and more have been done by the Israelis while they have systematically stolen Palestinian land in furtherance of their stated goal of a "greater Israel".

[guillaumeb]

27. My analogy is an easy way of summarizing the action that is going on.

There is abundant evidence, including the judgment of the World Court, that the Israeli built separation wall is illegal. You may ignore that, if you wish, but that does not change the reality of things.

The Israelis have been stealing Palestinian land since 1967. There is abundant evidence of that also, but again, you can ignore reality if you wish.

Unless and until the Israelis vacate ALL of the stolen land, there will be problems in Palestine. Apologists for Israel can talk about land swaps, and other nonsense, but ignoring reality does not make it go away.

[shira]

29. Vacating the settlements guarantees nothing...

Everywhere the IDF has pulled out, whether South Lebanon, Gaza, or even the Sinai (now with ISIS there)....terrorists who relentlessly attack Israel have filled the void.

Also, Jews are indigenous to ancient Judea so they aren't living on stolen land anymore than native Americans do so in North America. You'd have a better point if the Palestinians ever had sovereignty anywhere in that region, at any time. But they haven't.

[guillaumeb]

30. Everywhere that the IDF has "pulled out" is still under effective IDF

control or in range of IDF weapons. Nice try, or rationalization, but Israel still controls Gaza, the Golan Heights, Lebanon, and its alliance with Egypt, another US client state, ensures Israeli/Egyptian co-operation.

It did sound good, I will give you points for that.

[shira]

32. Israel does not effectively control Lebanon, Sinai, or even Gaza...

You should look up the actual definition of "effective control". You'll see Israel does not fit the requirement.

In the 3 areas mentioned, there are governments that have effective control. They maintain law and order there. Israel does not in any way govern any of those 3 areas.

Besides, the UN even admitted in 2000 that Israel no longer occupies Lebanon. It's ridiculous to say Israel occupies Egypt, or somehow controls Egypt via some puppet strings.

[hack89]

20. Sure, if I had killed members of your family

And promised to kill more. You would be stupid not to build a big fence.

[guillaumeb]

28. One can ignore reality, and history, and International Law, but that will not lead to

a solution.

[hack89]

31. Reality also includes reducing terrorist attacks to near zero

Don't you think that counts for something?

[Little Tich]

10. It hogs nearly 10% of the West Bank, deviates from the border by 12 miles in places,

and makes life difficult for around 150 000 Palestinians. The planning for the barrier began in 1995 and the route was decided before the 2nd intifada even happened, so the barrier couldn't have been in any way connected to terrorism. The ICJ has ruled that all parts of the barrier in occupied territory are illegal and must be removed.

If the barrier had been built along the border it would have prevented the exactly same number of terrorists entering Israel. So in conclusion, the West Bank separation barrier is a land grab and nothing else.

[Little Tich]

16. The intifada I'm thinking of started in 2000, the planning for the separation barrier started in

1995.

The only reason for the planned route of the separation barrier was a land grab for the illegal settlements; there are already israeli zoning plans for all the land fenced in by it.

This BS idea that it was built to stop terrorists is just a Zionist myth.

[hack89]

21. So you are saying that there was not a bombing campaign against Israel that kill many

That mysteriously ended when the fence was built? Really?

[Little Tich]

23. No. I'm just saying that the separation barrier was planned as a land grab before the 2nd intifada.

The fact that it did stop terrorists from entering Israel was a bonus, and it would have been the exact same if if it was built on the border.

I feel that I'm reiterating myself.