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melm00se

(5,013 posts)
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 11:54 AM Jan 2021

I am asking you to be my sounding board

After a career in high tech, I am teaching 9th grade freshman World History (so far for all of a week).

We are doing ancient civilizations.

Is the following question too challenging for kids this age:

The stone that contains the Code of Hammurabi, the Rosetta Stone, as well as mummies and artifacts ended up in European museums. Is it right for those countries to keep these items?

23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I am asking you to be my sounding board (Original Post) melm00se Jan 2021 OP
No llashram Jan 2021 #1
Maybe... FeelingBlue Jan 2021 #2
its perfect essaynnc Jan 2021 #3
good question handmade34 Jan 2021 #4
Not at all too challenging. Teens usually like to wrestle with such ethical and tblue37 Jan 2021 #5
In today's thinking, no it's not, but grumpyduck Jan 2021 #6
I think it's great to pose questions that cause thought and debate and do not have a KarenS Jan 2021 #7
The question itself is not difficult but whether they can answer depends on several items. wcast Jan 2021 #8
I'm a huge follower of Piaget so I'd say yes. Phoenix61 Jan 2021 #9
raises appropriate relevant questions Simeon Salus Jan 2021 #10
I think that's a great question. Laelth Jan 2021 #11
It's a great question for class discussion happybird Jan 2021 #12
Great question, right age to start this kind of discussion. marble falls Jan 2021 #13
I've taught WH for many years and always asked that question to 9th/10th graders. OrlandoDem2 Jan 2021 #14
I think that's a great topic RainCaster Jan 2021 #15
I would keep the teaching of ancient civilizations ancient. Sneederbunk Jan 2021 #16
Too far adrift at that age. 3Hotdogs Jan 2021 #17
In my district melm00se Jan 2021 #19
Not at all too challenging! elleng Jan 2021 #18
1. the home countries will appreciate them more. Tetrachloride Jan 2021 #20
On behalf of all indigenous people in this world Curbside Jan 2021 #21
Yes, Ask the Question..Good Luck ...9th Grade Ain't Easy.. Stuart G Feb 2021 #22
this Facebook is epic. Archeology and Ancient Worlds Tetrachloride Mar 2023 #23

FeelingBlue

(700 posts)
2. Maybe...
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:00 PM
Jan 2021

a more interesting question would be: “who owns the remnants of the first human civilizations?”

Truly, beyond the few most significant ones you identified, there ARE remnants in museums all over the world. To whom do these things belong??

I think it’s an interesting question.

Thanks!!

essaynnc

(816 posts)
3. its perfect
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:00 PM
Jan 2021

it stretched their litle minds with questions that don't have a convenient yes or no answer. let them have an opinion, let them debate, let them think about their positions, let them be persuaded by opposing views, ....let them experience the reality of life. you'll be doing them a great service...

handmade34

(22,761 posts)
4. good question
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:02 PM
Jan 2021

and appropriate but really more of an ethics/philosophical question that what a factual World History class question

good for general class discussion

tblue37

(65,829 posts)
5. Not at all too challenging. Teens usually like to wrestle with such ethical and
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:03 PM
Jan 2021

moral questions.

(I taught college for well over 40 years, and I tutor kids in middle school and high school, as well as grade school. I also helped raise 37 younger kids, since I had a home daycare for 18 years, so I know kids pretty well.)

grumpyduck

(6,333 posts)
6. In today's thinking, no it's not, but
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:03 PM
Jan 2021

if it were my class, I would explain it in terms of the "colonialistic" mentality at the time and how countries like England wanted to bring back trophies for the "uppah classes." IOW, put it in context and give them a chance to think about the difference, instead of as a black-and-white issue.

There are way too many people nowadays thinking in black and white.

KarenS

(4,203 posts)
7. I think it's great to pose questions that cause thought and debate and do not have a
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:04 PM
Jan 2021

"right" answer,,,,,, the world needs more thoughtful people.
and 9th grade is the perfect time to ask challenging questions,,,, I'm not a teacher but I'm a Mom & a Granny. jmo


wcast

(595 posts)
8. The question itself is not difficult but whether they can answer depends on several items.
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:04 PM
Jan 2021

Have you asked this type of question before and have you taught your students the components to answer these types of questions? Do they have the necessary information and background to answer this question? Have you practiced as a group answering questions that call for an opinion and do you require them to back up their answer?

Asking opinions and teaching critical thinking is very important, so kudos to you for doing this. 😄

Phoenix61

(17,095 posts)
9. I'm a huge follower of Piaget so I'd say yes.
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:06 PM
Jan 2021

Some may be able to understand the issues involved but I don’t think most of them will. Heck, adults struggle with those issues. I’d definitely discuss we are now questioning where those types of items should be and ultimately who they belong to.

Simeon Salus

(1,179 posts)
10. raises appropriate relevant questions
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:07 PM
Jan 2021

Is raiding tombs a moral business?

Back in my AD&D days, our entire purpose was to ransack catacombs and tombs.

Indiana Jones and Lara Croft aren't so different.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
11. I think that's a great question.
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:09 PM
Jan 2021

Yes, it’s advanced ethics with a lot of geopolitical and historical baggage, but if you’re teaching history, there’s nothing wrong with the question.

Elementary ethics says you should give back things that don’t belong to you, but the question is far more complicated. I would test empathy too. Why HASN’T France given back to Egypt the obelisk that Napoleon took? Assume that the French are decent, reasonable people who have valid reasons for not following the dictates of elementary ethics. Then ask the students, why not?

-Laelth

OrlandoDem2

(2,085 posts)
14. I've taught WH for many years and always asked that question to 9th/10th graders.
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:28 PM
Jan 2021

It’s perfectly fine. Of course, they need a bit of context, etc.

RainCaster

(11,047 posts)
15. I think that's a great topic
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 12:33 PM
Jan 2021

I do love British humor. When I took the family to the British Museum, they asked a local if it cost much. He said something to the effect of "no, it's free, because we took so much of that stuff from other countries".

So while it is well known that many of these antiquities belong to other cultures, the BM is an excellent place to display them. They are open to the public, and truly well preserved.

3Hotdogs

(12,696 posts)
17. Too far adrift at that age.
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:38 PM
Jan 2021

Hammurabi - focus on its text. Do they agree with that? Has our outlook about law and punishment changed? Then, what do they think?

Rosetta Stone. Maybe give a copy of a text in a foreign language. Ask them to read it. Obviously, most or all won't be able to read it. How could you learn to read it or find out what it says? Connect it to the Rosetta Stone. If you can find how the stone was actually translated, present that.

Mummies -- why were they made? What were the mummy creators believing about the afterlife.

and so forth....

Does your 9th grade curriculum include Asian civilizations? Mine did and it was eye opening for me. What state are you in?

I taught 9th grade Western Civ for only 4 years. U.S. history for most of my career.


Good luck and feel free to p.m. me if you want more suggestions.

melm00se

(5,013 posts)
19. In my district
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 02:39 PM
Jan 2021

World History is 9th grade.

I have teed up:

Sumeria, Egypt and Indus Valley Civilization in this section.

I will be then doing Greece, Rome, China, Persia and pre-CE Meso and South America coincidentally.

When it comes to translations, that I do know quite a bit about as one of my personal favorites is cryptology. A language is just an unbroken code.

elleng

(132,343 posts)
18. Not at all too challenging!
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 01:44 PM
Jan 2021

'Is it right for those countries to keep these items?'

Justice and Fairness are ALWAYS suitable education topics.

Tetrachloride

(8,055 posts)
20. 1. the home countries will appreciate them more.
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 06:53 PM
Jan 2021

1. Not even counting tourists, Egypt is especially proud of their ancient history. The new national museum, nicknamed GEM, Grand Egyptian Museum, may finally open this year.

2. In my opinion, some items, especially Rosetta Stone, to Egypt would be the right thing (and make headlines throughout the world). On the other hand, I reject returning Chinese artifacts from Taiwan to mainland China.

---------

3. Frankly, there are better questions. I challenge the class to invent better and better questions. If one opens the area outward 500 miles in any direction from the Pyramids, then things get serious.

If there are serious questions on Egypt, modern or ancient, I'm sure I have my friends will have interesting answers. Once in a while, I am able to answer.

 

Curbside

(54 posts)
21. On behalf of all indigenous people in this world
Fri Jan 22, 2021, 02:41 PM
Jan 2021

ASK THE QUESTION.

The First Amendment gives you the right to ask and it gives your students ( and us here) the right to answer as we see fit.

I once went to school to help my friend's nine year old daughter give a social studies presentation. Somehow I managed to say that the pyramids are in Africa and the class exploded with denials. So we got out a map and look up Egypt. The next day the little girl was bullied because "that person made Egypt African."

Such is my power. Hear me and fear me.
Ask the question.

Stuart G

(38,536 posts)
22. Yes, Ask the Question..Good Luck ...9th Grade Ain't Easy..
Mon Feb 8, 2021, 04:52 PM
Feb 2021

But it is an experience...Lots and Lots of stories about my teaching 9th grade.

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