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CHIMO

(9,223 posts)
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 02:07 AM Feb 2012

The mathematical equation that caused the banks to crash

It was the holy grail of investors. The Black-Scholes equation, brainchild of economists Fischer Black and Myron Scholes, provided a rational way to price a financial contract when it still had time to run. It was like buying or selling a bet on a horse, halfway through the race. It opened up a new world of ever more complex investments, blossoming into a gigantic global industry. But when the sub-prime mortgage market turned sour, the darling of the financial markets became the Black Hole equation, sucking money out of the universe in an unending stream.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/feb/12/black-scholes-equation-credit-crunch

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The mathematical equation that caused the banks to crash (Original Post) CHIMO Feb 2012 OP
Very educational--thanks for posting n/t eridani Feb 2012 #1
"The Black-Scholes equation has its roots in mathematical physics" napoleon_in_rags Feb 2012 #2
E = Greed x All-Fucked-Up FreakinDJ Feb 2012 #3
Equation mis-stated? SDjack Feb 2012 #5
Right you are - my miscalculation FreakinDJ Feb 2012 #7
The equation itself wasn't the real problem. izquierdista Feb 2012 #4
Well, it's a false model. economics is not physics, and it's not like physics either. bemildred Feb 2012 #6
Economics needs more rules of law and less fancy-dancy fraud Demeter Feb 2012 #8
Mumbo Jumbo still pays well. nt bemildred Feb 2012 #9
the problem wasn't ever equations, or MBSs... phantom power Feb 2012 #10
+1. bemildred Feb 2012 #11
Thank you for this information. However, there was an opposing view truedelphi Feb 2012 #12
Two very good and readable books are Sam1 Feb 2012 #13

napoleon_in_rags

(3,991 posts)
2. "The Black-Scholes equation has its roots in mathematical physics"
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 03:20 AM
Feb 2012

"where quantities are infinitely divisible, time flows continuously and variables change smoothly."

Not even there. The 'ultraviolet catastrophe' was based on this idea of smooth continuous change, to fix it they had to come up with this idea of small discrete packets of energy. Beware the continuous, its always an approximation. It sounds like they have the right idea with this complexity theory, looking at things in terms of discrete individual actions.

 

izquierdista

(11,689 posts)
4. The equation itself wasn't the real problem.
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 10:23 AM
Feb 2012

I'm glad they got to that, although you had to get to the third paragraph to find it. And if you get to the bottom of the article, you find

The entire system is poorly understood and dangerously unstable. The world economy desperately needs a radical overhaul and that requires more mathematics, not less.


This is yet another example of why economics is in a pre-science stage. The Black-Scholes equation is merely the Fourier heat equation from 150 years earlier with price substituted for the variable of temperature. We're still trying to figure out how the heat equation works in meteorology, with different models coming up with different weather and climate forecasts; how can people think they have figured out prices, which have many more degrees of freedom?

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
6. Well, it's a false model. economics is not physics, and it's not like physics either.
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 12:20 PM
Feb 2012

Most of all, it's not random, or even pseudo-random, what it is is chaotic, that is quasi-deterministic, but so complicated that it is not even in principle predictable.

And as you point out so well, even much of physics is far from well understood.

And so we have garbage in and garbage out.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
8. Economics needs more rules of law and less fancy-dancy fraud
Sun Feb 12, 2012, 08:53 PM
Feb 2012

But try to find an economist or politician or bankster who will agree.....crooks like the crooked way.

phantom power

(25,966 posts)
10. the problem wasn't ever equations, or MBSs...
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 10:45 AM
Feb 2012

the problem was massive, massive fraud: deliberately rating MBSs far far higher than there was any justification for, equations or otherwise. Deliberately blowing off proper paper trail of mortgage ownership, deliberately robo-sigining foreclosures, etc.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
11. +1.
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 11:09 AM
Feb 2012

The math was used as a deliberate smokescreen for the fraud, because it sure as hell is not good applied math, and any real mathematician would not touch such twaddle with a pole.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
12. Thank you for this information. However, there was an opposing view
Mon Feb 13, 2012, 05:16 PM
Feb 2012

At the time of a mini crash back in late 10 (or maybe it was 2009) and it is far more sinister as it is far more everyday in its occurrence:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1225086642415&set=a.1230415895643.27680.1686499927&type=3&theater

Sam1

(498 posts)
13. Two very good and readable books are
Tue Feb 14, 2012, 01:01 PM
Feb 2012

Emanuel Derman's "My Life as a Quant" and "Models behaving Badly.

It wasn't the equations that almost destroyed the economy it was their misuse that was the cause. It was the lack of regulation, supervision, and effective punishment that enabled the banksters and traders to cause the damage and they did it for their own personal enrichment using the banks as tools of fraud.

It was among others, O'bama, saying on the David Letterman show that the bankers had done terrible things that unfortunately were legal that are responsible. The regulators should have been making criminal referrals and the Justice Deptment should have been prosecuting based on the referrals. In my opinnion the major banks were and still are control frauds. See Bill Black's blogging over at http://www.neweconomicperspectives.org. on control frauds.

There was, in my opinion a lot for fraud, forgery, and perjury going on, and still going on

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