Latin America
Related: About this forumA Complex Psychological War
By Tamara Pearson
Source: Venezuelanalysis.com
February 15, 2014
On top of this, we have the media constantly lying about what is going on here and about what the government does, as well as the verbal abuse towards Chavistas on social networks. Then, over the last few weeks, in some parts of Venezuela, the most violent sectors of the opposition have been active. Here in Merida it started off with a few students blocking the main road; burning tires and garbage on it, and throwing rocks at anyone who tried to get close. They had no placards. From last Friday those protests escalated, both in terms of violence, people involved, and roads closed. It has been hard to get to school, work, and the hospital, and the frustration, inconvenience, and fear that comes with these sorts of actions combines with the aforementioned economic insecurity. The cacerolas (pot banging protests) that started last night in my barrio and in a few others here and in other cities also cause anxiety.
Sometimes, the extent to which these sorts of war of attrition strategies affect people depends on where you live or work. Many workplaces, for example, have access to Mercal food products. Other barrios are much calmer, and other parts of the country are peaceful.
Now, the government has made mistakes, but purchasing power has basically continuously risen until mid last year, and inflation has also been around the 15-30% mark until mid last year. The worsening of above measures since then are clearly intentional, both for their political aims and the fact that they drastically increase the wealthy sectors profits. They came at a time when, with Chavez gone, the revolution was perceived to be more vulnerable. They are destructive measures that aim to wear people down and for collective fear and anxiety; three solid ingredients for paving the way for conservative forces. The political opposition may have lost all except one election in the last fifteen years, but the economic opposition is in a stronger position. And the hard thing about that opposition is they are less visible, and also seemingly less divided than the political opposition.
Full article: http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/a-complex-psychological-war/
Judi Lynn
(160,656 posts)Richard Helms, his intention was that they would "make the economy scream" in Chile, after the Chilean public had the nerve to elect a leftist, Salvador Allende, as president.
They set about it until the entire country was convulsed, paralyzed, eventually, markets stripped bare, produce trucks, and others bearing necessities, parked and abandoned on the highways, by truckers who were being paid by U.S. taxpayers (without our awareness, of course) through various channels, and ships were backed up, sitting in the harbors with rotting food, while longshoremen, etc. were also unavailable to move it from ships to the stores, even going down to building materials, and things like cigarettes, etc.
That was when the CIA hadn't had nearly as much time to practice its "magic" in overthrowing leftists with covert methods, and, as Nixon said, the government can avoid any trace of the US "fingerprints from showing." It was so long ago. Now they know the drill, don't they?
Thank you, Polly. This is a worthwhile article, and TRUTH-based. It makes a difference.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)All of Venezuela's problems are clearly psychological. There are no shortages, inflation, crime, electric system disfunction, deterioration of the petroleum industry, massive devaluation of the national currency or inability of international companies serving Venezuela to continue to function without access to dollars and any such reporting is either a) local and/or b) merely one of perception and, in either case, only creates conditions for the Venezuelan populace that are just "a little bit tough". No harm done. Nothing to see here - move along. In fact, everything couldn't be more hunky-dory. If it weren't for that few misreable students creating a public perception mess there wouldn't be any problems at all. And the few problems that actually 'might' exist are all clearly intentional, both 'for their political aims' and because they 'dramatically increase the wealthy sectors' profits'.
I think a little something just flew right over your head!
Judi Lynn
(160,656 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)toppling yet another popular and democratically elected gov't.
I'm not as nice as you though ...... I feel no sympathy.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)thrown around in this article?
polly7
(20,582 posts)joshcryer
(62,280 posts)Only on Zcomm can victim blaming and protest as a cause for "anxiety" and "feelings of insecurity" be championed...
Zcomm. Home of the works of Pilger, Weisbrot, Chomsky, Monbiot, et al to infinity ....... vs. Josh, who protested once!
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)Bunch of totalitarian trotskyites.
polly7
(20,582 posts)trying to stop the horrors of war and destabilization that benefits only right-wing nutcases and their corporate overseers, vs. joshcryer - one time protester of something or other, and loyal supporter of overthrowing gov'ts that actually take care of their own.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)And, sorry, but blog postings on a website don't "try to stop the horrors of war and destabilization."
Venezuela takes care of its own, all right, 50 dead a day, tupamaros running free murdering with impunity, food shortages (that are just caused by psychological issues), electrical problems, deteriorating oil industry.
With a homophobic anti-semitic bigot for President.
Look up. I think you missed the point of the article too.
Do you not understand the psychological effects of what's happening - it's deliberate terrorism meant to instill fear and desperation - with one goal in mind (the same as yours), to force ill will towards the presiding gov't. It happens time after time, but it won't work in Venezuela. When people are part of a gov't on every level and have been included in every major change .... they're invested in seeing their vision through. Especially considering what they came from, and what they're guaranteed to get with a right-wing coup.
You were SOOOOO proud of your posts here and how important they were re: Libya. Are you saying that Pilger et al have done nothing to effect the way these horrors are seen by millions who read their blogs and submissions? Kinda high on yourself, ain'cha?
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)When Occupy was protesting you could make that claim: "Those fucking people chanting throughout all hours of the day, instilling fear and desperation to force ill will toward the presiding government."
And guess what? Some supporters of Obama here did claim that Occupy was "forcing ill will toward the presiding government."
That's fucking bullshit and you know it.
Protest exists in its own kind of autonomous zone. That's why I support the Ukrainian protesters even though both sides are ultra-nationalist and probably racist. When one side has guns and the other side has rocks, I side with the guys with the rocks.
Whether my Libya coverage was important, no, it wasn't, it had no effect. I only did it for myself, because of how many turncoats decided to just throw them under the bus once they got a hold of some guns to defend themselves. I supported the Egypt revolution from day one and then everyone who supported Egypt decided to change their tune and not support Libya, all because of the perceived "left wingness" of the presiding leader.
And really, that's all it comes down to for some people, whether the side is perceived to be left wing or not, whether the side is anti-American or not. It has little to do with actually addressing the concerns and wishes of the participants.
polly7
(20,582 posts)let's not get tooooo far out there. That's fucking bullshit and you know it. Don't play naive, you know exactly what's going on in Venezuela.
And bullshit you only did your Libya coverage for yourself. You worked hard at shutting up and trying to get banned dozens of us who dared point out there were millions who did not want the carnage and horror - you even told me that simply posting a video of a first-hand witness was like a 'slap in the face' to you after all your work. Of course you considered it VERY important. I do laugh though at your dismissal of war correspondents, journalists, documentary-makers and other people who've seen the horror up close.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)Just as you are claiming it here.
What you think these students lighting trash on fire are actually going to overthrow a heavily armed government? Are you fucking kidding me? The hyperbole here is just beyond comprehension. First it goes from protest and banging posts is psychological warfare, to it's actual warfare!
What the fuck. This is pointless.
And I don't remember the "slap in the face" shit that you dreamed up. A huge number of DUers hated me for my Libya posts, it would be a rare day that I even got a positive number of recs. I don't see how you can claim I dismissed "war correspondents, journalists, documentary-makers and other people who've seen the horror up close." Every damn post then was using their information.
If anything, those here who were trashing Tim Tracy are the ones who can't appreciate documentary-makers.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2014, 10:30 PM - Edit history (1)
It was HILARIOUS. Just for you, I will do a lil' googling ...... see if I can find that. And nobody hated you for posting about Libya, it was the reverse.
Be back in a bit ....
My humble apologies, it wasn't a 'slap to the face', it was a 'smack in the face'.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2164258#2165241
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)So I got negative recs on posts every day for weeks on end?
Even as people I knew in Libya were being killed?
Please... that's just crazy. I have never felt more ostracized in my life. And mostly based upon total fabrications.
polly7
(20,582 posts)joshcryer
(62,280 posts)I thought you had something... I was curious to see it.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Judi Lynn
(160,656 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Mr. joshcryer can't let a thread go by without derailing it and making himself the victim of something or other. Nothing changes!
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)Next time I will ignore your bait.
Easy enough to take the subject off the topic of the OP after I thoroughly demolished it. No one will find my original posts now and see how utterly stupid and paternalistic and lame the article is.
polly7
(20,582 posts)joshcryer
(62,280 posts)I in fact didn't even know they had done so and would not have returned to the thread had polly7 not responded to me and made my post page light up (or someone else could've responded to me).
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)So that's the first time I cared to even see your comment since my "replies" lit up.
I just finished reading the thread, yeah, you post something debunked so easily that it was actually embarrassing. What was a "slap in the face" was the fact that you, and everyone else in that shit thread, were piling on me for calling Lizzy Phelan the liar that she is. It wasn't 'just' because you posted a video, it was because the nastiest side of people came out in that thread. Oh shit, Josh called out an "eyewitness" whose own "testimony" was debunked the very same day it was posted.
Guess what? Ofcom sanctioned her for her lies, so I was 100% vindicated by that. And all the shit posters making shit personal with me (like you are doing in this thread; we know Libya has no relevance here but you are just trying to win internet points).
However, taking into account the widely acknowledged incidence of killings carried out by the forces of Colonel Gaddafi at that time, we considered that Lizzie Phelans statement that it was a lie that Colonel Gaddafi was attacking his own people was not duly accurate
...
There is no requirement on broadcasters to provide an alternative viewpoint in all news stories or all issues in the news. All news stories must however be presented with due impartiality: that is with impartiality adequate or appropriate to the subject and nature of the programme. Presenting news stories with due impartiality in news programmes very much depends on editorial discretion being exercised appropriately in all the circumstances.
...
Given the above, we concluded that on the specific facts of this case these news items were not presented with due accuracy and due impartiality. We have therefore recorded a breach of Rule 5.1 of the Code in respects of the two News reports in question..
pages 27-31: http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/enforcement/broadcast-bulletins/obb213/obb213.pdf
polly7
(20,582 posts)But .... you said I had dreamed up my claim you'd stated you'd been slapped (smacked) in the face.
I didn't.
Also a complete fucking lie - you only posted for months (being just as nasty and hateful to those of us who didn't agree with you as you are here) for your own personal reasons, and weren't really all that invested in it.
As nothing you've said has been truthful regarding pretty much anything you've stated here, I think it's safe to assume that just derailing the thread was your intention from the beginning - successfully so!
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)It wasn't "simply posting a video," it was the trash talking bullshit. And Ofcam proved I was correct. I called Lizzie a liar before Ofcam did, and every idiot in that thread trash talking me looks quite foolish right around now. I was right, they were wrong.
I was invested in it, I don't know where I say otherwise. Being invested in something doesn't mean that we think it matters to the overall world. Forum posts don't matter very much at all. They're largely irrelevant, just back and forth banter.
Which is why it is amusing you're doubling down and saying bullshit insults like "nothing you've said has been truthful regarding pretty much anything you've stated here."
You're the one who brought up Libya. For no reason. Out of thin fucking air. Just, wow, here's Libya.
I don't know why I bother with you. There's no sincerity here. No sense of common decency.
polly7
(20,582 posts)joshcryer
(62,280 posts)Proving that I was right in calling her a liar!
She was the liar and everyone who believed her was duped.
As far as calling Lizzie a bitch, that was poster #2, not me, I was post #1 in that thread. I won't accuse you of willfully trying to mislead because it does look like you are responding to my post there. I think DCBob was the one whose post was deleted.
Don't worry, I won't fall for your bait next time.
polly7
(20,582 posts)No, she wasn't a liar.
No 'bait' needed, you chose to derail this and make it all about you. I guess you didn't appreciate getting what you asked for.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)Let me know when you're on the other side of the police with swat gear on and shooting tear gas at you. If you don't agree with me then I can say or do nothing to convince you it's better to support the oppressed than the oppressors.
polly7
(20,582 posts)vision that includes a better life for all Venezuelans.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)And they dismiss it as psychological warfare.
They disgust me. They only ever show interest in Venezuela whenever the opposition is getting murdered or losing elections. They don't care about the daily murders, they don't care about the massive inflation causing staples to be hard to come by. They don't care about the massive corruption and graft making the boligarchs billionaires. All they care about is scoring grotesque internet points in their little self-congratulatory circles.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)pseudointellectual high fiving. Their articles of faith require a blind belief that a) Chavez and successors can do no wrong and b) if Venezuela is rapidly becoming an economic failure, always blame said failure on shadowy 'outside forces'. The fact that few (if any) have any actual knowledge of Venezuela at all doesn't stop them from climbing on their hobby horses and delivering self-congratulory pronouncements with all the blind faith (and accuracy) of a snake handling Pentecostal.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)When are we going to hear from Tamara about that?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)joshcryer
(62,280 posts)Damn grassroots, never doing what we want them to do.
Oh and protesting causes anxiety and feelings of insecurity, so, protesting, it's just bad. Don't bang pots, because that just is psychological warfare and it hurts our sensibilities. Pot banging, scary.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Safe and sound far away from the horrifying effects of what's being staged in Venezuela ..... yet always ready to jump in with nauseating bullshit making light of people suffering because of it.
Some things really are disgusting.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)I've been on the other end of the police in riot gear.
Blaming the protesters and backing the police is wrong.
Just let people protest in peace and don't arrest them en mass.
You do realize this all started because a woman was raped and students protested it, right? They got arrested en mass and it escalated from there. Oh wait, the whole thing is "being staged." It seems as if you have no respect for people protesting for self-determination, when 49% of the country voted for the other guy.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I've seen you pooh-pooh the rapes of migrant women in Libya during the horrors there.
Try with someone that hasn't seen you cheer on atrocity for months steady, joshcryer. You made quite an impact, there.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)I never "pooh-pooh the rapes of migrant women in Libya."
And I defend a peoples right for self-determination, particularly if they are fighting an authoritarian force.
But of course, you changed the subject. Are you contending that students who originally protested a rape, and then went on to protest their own being arrested, is staged?
I doubt you've ever been part of these kinds of movements, where police shoot you with tear gas, where police kettle you and arrest your comrades, tasing some, forcing others to the ground, kicking, scratching, hitting with billy clubs. If you had you'd be more sympathetic toward these students and you wouldn't have this utterly asinine view that it was all "staged."
I suppose the rape of the university student was "staged" going by your convoluted understanding of what is going on there.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I have a very, very good memory ... especially for ugly shit like that.
And I said ....... I DON'T CARE what you've been involved in, though you seem very proud of it. Start your own OP!!!!!
I have no tolerance for violence of any kind, but when a movement is staged that involves using it, deliberately, to terrorize the population and those who supported and elected a democratic government ..... I have NO PITY.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)But you do prove that you have no feelings for those who protest violent authoritarian forces. And you show your character when you dismiss the rape that originally caused the protest to begin with.
Oh, as far as your "good memory" I am sure you can go and type up a google search and find proof of your allegations.
BTW it was you who made it personal, not me.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Might be difficult though d/t sheer the sheer volume, you demonized the supporters of Libya's gov't for months, including those of us who brought up time after time every atrocity committed upon the people who were being raped and murdered both by rebels and NATO.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)And believe me, I remember it very well, I got death threats over my support for the revolutionaries. Legit death threats. Bad shit happened on both sides in that conflict.
polly7
(20,582 posts)joshcryer
(62,280 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)As do many others.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)Please tell me you support Assad and Dim One Il in North Korea or I'll have to take away your honorary Tupamaros card.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)I don't support totalitarians. Shit. Please don't take my Tupamaros card.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)At least we don't have chavista pigs or anti-American rantings from lunatics on the Latin American forum.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)Even homophobic anti-semitic bigots. Or in Gaddafi's case, a rabid racist who suppressed an entire peoples culture and shipped migrants off on leaky ships at gunpoint, after having threatened EU for a floodgate of immigrants.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)was getting involved to help save innocent people from the horrible government. Rapes, torture, murder, theft, imprisonment, especially of the Sub Saharan Africans who had been doing so well under Gadaffi, were left to the brutal thugs that were laughably called 'protesters' too.
Libya was a horrific crime perpetrated on a nation with OIL. Venezuela also has OIL. Funny how we are so 'interested' in countries that just happen to have oil.
Thanks for the thread Polly. I don't even like to think of Libya because it gets me so angry, what we and our NATO alllies did to that country and its people.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)that's progress I guess. I am glad she has found multiple uses for cheap shampoo.
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)If only the grassroots would organize and enforce the rates everything would be fine.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)of food, and the highest murder rate and inflation on the continent get you down.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...jousting with rightwing propagandists.
You are much appreciated!
joshcryer
(62,280 posts)You love to lie about posters here, but there are in fact no "rightwing propagandists" in this thread.