I like this article on the differences between Hillary and Bernie.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

I read this article this morning and I thought I'd share. I think it does a good job explaining the differences between Bernie and Hillary.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-debate_us_56bd67d2e4b0b40245c60e1f

I tend to agree that Bernie is more idealistic and Hillary is more realistic. While dreaming of the the possibilities is nice, I think we can't lose sight of the current mess we are in with the Republicans in this country. That party is out of control and I think we need a democratic presidential nominee that is more realistic, because Bernie's ideas are nice and all, but how is he really going to make that all happen in 4 to 8 years? Think about all the republican obstructionists we have in the house and senate. I think we need the realist right now who understands and accepts the current state of affairs for what they are and can come up with solutions that have a chance in actually coming to pass and working for us.

"Just like Sanders' pitch is a natural fit for his constituency of younger voters, the Clinton argument probably resonates with older voters who have lived through the same political battles she has. They might like what Sanders is promising. They just don't believe he can deliver it."

This article also made me feel old. It said the younger voters respond more to the idealism and the older voters respond more to the realism. Is almost 37 old these days? I'm the problem solver type, so I respond to people who are realistic more. I want some who can actually get results.

[Thinkingabout]

1. K & R, good article, thanks for sharing.

[Hortensis]

2. I don't know. I have always been an idealist. That is not

the same as being unrealistic, pie-in-the-dreaming, or extreme, although it is often disparaged as such. With experience, we just come to understand and accept that advancing society requires engaging in permanent civil strife. Battles are won, ground is lost, and so it continues. I'm ashamed to be part of the generation that lost (or reclaimed, from the viewpoint of the other side) so much of the ground won in the first three quarters of the last century, and set us up for truly dreadful losses from climate disaster, but I am still an idealist. We DO advance.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

6. I see what you are saying

If you think of idealism as being hopeful and always trying to make things better. I am that way myself, but still grounded in the reality that none of these things come easy and change can take a long time, but it can happen if you are willing to work long and hard for it.

Googling idealism I get "the practice of forming or pursuing ideals, especially unrealistically." So according to the google dictionary being idealistic pretty much excludes being realistic, so maybe we're something else. Hopeful, optimistic, realists? Perhaps someone else has a good term for it.

[Hortensis]

7. Where would humanity be if ideals were "unrealistic,"

by definition? There are other definitions, after all.

Ideals: a principle to be aimed at. a person or thing conceived as embodying such a conception or conforming to such a standard, and taken as a model for imitation. an ultimate object or aim of endeavor, especially one of high or noble character.

The most common way opponents have of disparaging ideals as unachievable is to claim ideal ONLY means "perfect" and idealistic means insisting on an unachievable perfection. They do not.

[Iliyah]

3. K & R

Reality, Syria with the possible cease fire. Reality, ACA, that will become much more and possible heathcare coverage for all Americans.

et al.,

[yallerdawg]

4. I think when you can look back and remember...

the damage done by a Nixon, a Reagan, a Bush - it puts it into perspective.

All the Republicans want is a president to sign Republican legislation. Their bar is real low. And they are half way there!

Stopping that has to be our priority! The best candidate with the best chance to stop the Republicans is Hillary! We need to keep it simple, too.

[KitSileya]

5. I think those of us who were politically interested even before yesterday feel that way

I think a lot of Sanders supporters must have not been politically active before. I mean, if they even were engaged 8 years ago, when Obama was elected, they would realize how Sanders' belief in "a revolution" isn't going to work. Millions of people were engaged and fired up in 2008 - they were ready at the gate. But that's not how politics in the USA works. Anyone who watched the huge protests against Walker in Wisconsin and supported Wendy Davis in Texas has realized that numbers on the barricades don't magically make things perfect.

As for the politically experienced who support Sanders, I think are disillusioned. They thought that Obama would accomplish the impossible. I admit I myself was disappointed that he didn't just force the republicans in Congress to do his bidding - that he didn't denounce them at every opportunity in the media. But that was because I wasn't thinking realistically. The President is President of the entire nation, not just half of it. But some seem to think that Sanders will magically accomplish everything he has claimed he will do by abracadabra-ing away opposition from the republicans. That meme going around with Dumbledore, Gandalf, Kenobi, and Sanders is truer than they realize.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

8. I haven't seen the thing about Sanders and Dumbledore et al.

I think Obama did a decent job given all the obstacles he faced with the republicans. It might be that a lot of the Sanders supporters were too young to vote 8 years ago so they don't remember what it was like back then. I have a hard time picturing Sanders as president. My gut feeling is that he cannot win the general election, but I think Hillary has a chance.

[BlueCaliDem]

9. This:

"Just like Sanders' pitch is a natural fit for his constituency of younger voters, the Clinton argument probably resonates with older voters who have lived through the same political battles she has. They might like what Sanders is promising. They just don't believe he can deliver it."

This is me, exactly. My entire argument not to support Bernie Sanders is, I might like what he's promising, but I know he can't deliver. And I'm not about to give him 4 years to prove me right while he sits in the White House and draws double the salary he's getting now, can ride off into the sunset with a lifetime income that's more than what he's getting now while thumping his chest that he's gone from gainfully UNemployed up until he was 40 to President of the United States in his twilight years - and changed the Democratic Party by destroying it from the inside out. Sorry. I don't see how I'll get anything out of that.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

10. Yeah, that particular line I thought summed up how I feel really well too. n/t