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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsI can't understand why otherwise reasonable, educated people fall for homeopathic quackery
Has anyone ever read on how homeopathic "medicine" works? Hair of the dog, then diluted to the point where there is no hair nor dog left, and then given to "cure" the ailment. Essentially, the idea is that water is to retain a "memory" of the hair of the dog. But water is a simple recipe: Hydrogen, two parts oxygen. Nothing about memory there, just a bunch of electrons, protons and nucleuses doing their thing.
Studies show homeopathic "medicine" is quackery, common sense shows homeopathic "medicine" as quackery and if it worked so well, why hasn't it cured a single person?
CAVEAT: I am not lumping homeopathy with herbal remedies. Herbal remedies can be helpful, albeit a bit like gambling. You never know how much of the active ingredient is in the remedy. More established herbalists can quantify these things, but this doesn't always happen.
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hobbit709
(41,694 posts)He also feeds her all that momeopathic BS.
Between telling her that her bladder infection could be cured with an "adjustment" and strapping a box on her arm and the LED readout telling her what toxins she needed to remove from her body.
And she believes all this crap rather than see a REAL MD.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)just curious about the outcome.
Did the neighbor report her bladder infection had been cured?
Also, sometimes what seems like a bladder infection can really be interstitial cystitis, which mimics a bladder infection. The condition often appears and disappears on its own.
I sometimes have bladder issues which feel like an infection and last for about a week or so, but then spontaneously disappear.
So if the neighbor's "bladder infection" really did disappear, then perhaps it wasn't really an infection at all.
Anyway, like I said, just curious...
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)10 days worth of antibiotics and she was cured. I didn't say it disappeared, I said the quack told her an adjustment would fix it.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)guess I read too much into the outcome (or lack of one).
Major Nikon
(36,843 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)HOWEVER, the stuff that actually worked wasn't the "adjustments" but the theraputic massage, electrical stim and warm/hot compresses
Major Nikon
(36,843 posts)Many types of back problems are short term, and can be just as effectively treated by a good massage therapist. The problem I have with chiroquactors is they often push treatments which have no proven efficiacy, and often they want you to keep going back to them indefinitely.
blueamy66
(6,795 posts)My guy is going to one now since the car accident.....he won't let him "adjust" his back and neck anymore....just the massage and electrical thing.
Gotta go or his back will be screwed forever and we won't get enough compensation from the drunk that hit him and the 3 other cars and the house or the various other objects.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)was to go get a back x-ray and helped set me up with a Orthopedic surgeon, ended up needing major back surgery due to arthritis in the vertebrae! Other than that my Chiropractor has helped keep me mobile when my siatica has flaired up.
Denninmi
(6,581 posts)But millions of people such as myself depend on prescription drugs for their very survival.
Sorry, homeopathic remedies aren't going to cut it for me.
TrogL
(32,822 posts)none of these 5-syllable words to worry about
Archae
(46,431 posts)That a woman using cheap magician's tricks can tell people where their dead relatives are, that getting poked with needles can cure disease, that a guy using a fake theory that involves cracking the neck can cure disease, or that intelligent beings fly quadrillions of miles from some star system to here just to fly around and occasionally shove things up peoples' asses.
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)I'd love to go to a real doctor for any of the gazillion health issues I have. But...I can't. So I go online and find what info I can on homepathic remedies, compare them with other sites, and so on.
No, none of it really works, but I have found a few things to ease the pain that won't make my arms fall off. I hope.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Find a cheaper placebo. Big Supplement is as big a scam an anything around.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)is itself sometimes little more than quackery.
mucifer
(23,724 posts)Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)As it often does, unless there are radical changes in diet and lifestyle.
I read that remissions are counted in the "cure" rate, even if it comes back.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)...I am forever amazed at the number of people who buy into ModernMedicineINC just because it's the only product on the shelves.
.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Modern Meds have it.
Crystals, chakras and water with alleged memory doesn't
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)
Orrex
(63,426 posts)
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)And effective, whether you believe it or not. In a free-market medical system, like in 'free-markets' everywhere, the objective IS NOT to get it right but to make money. Ergo, anything goes. There is 'no honour among thieves'.
Not seeing anything of lasting quality in the free market of my birth, I was indeed forced into "thinking". Thinking about what the marketplace was doing to get me to buy their products took me to a point of appreciating doing without.
That includes of course, 'doing without' the constant reminders of how sick you are.
.
Orrex
(63,426 posts)I've been around this topic with you a number of times before, and I know that there's no sense in hoping that you'll actually recognize the demonstrable benefit of empirical science, not to mention the fact that actual medicine is greatly and objectively superior to "alternative" "medicine," at least in terms of treating actual medical conditions.
So what's your point, again? That wishful thinking is better than doing nothing? I would point out that they're one and the same.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)Of course, 'paying' for a healthy body makes perfect sense to someone born, raised and conditioned daily in a disney-esque corporate playground (where even spiritual salvation can be bought).
As near as I can figure, you are advocating one brand over another. This is common in a free market. It doesn't, however, solve the problem of ill health. To any sensible democrat, a free market must at least provide a choice.
Your particular brand takes up all the 'shelf space' and still you come here to heckle the choices other people are making.
The only "science" relevant in a discussion about medicine is Sociology. It shows how people behave in groups, and how they easily assume the beliefs of the dominant group. The mass brainwashing that makes for-profit healthcare , even conceivable was there long before you were born. Pick your battles wisely.
.
Orrex
(63,426 posts)You maintain the serious delusion that western (i.e., actual) medicine works because of some kind of group-think, which simply isn't true. Everything that you base on this assertion (that is, your entire argument) falls apart as a result, so there's nothing to refute.
You foolishly argue that western medicine and homeopathy (or whatever) are competing brands, and that's simply not the case. Nor is it a case of "brand loyalty," as you imply. Instead, I am advocating for scientific and empirically verifiable medicine, while you are singing the praises of hocus pocus (which has, by the way, been proven ineffective countless times over). You caution me to pick my battles wisely, but this isn't even a battle. It's the homeopathic superstition trying and failing to make itself seem credible.
Your entire argument boils down to this: "Merck makes a profit, therefore penicillin doesn't really work."
Heddi
(18,312 posts)that those with disease and illness and injury have such disease, illness, and injury because they didn't have enough positive thinking to overcome the disease, illness, or injury. That sickness comes from the mind and negative thoughts, and that illness is often there to teach us a lesson to be more thankful and to think more positively. He believes we create our own reality...if we have HIV, it's because we want to have HIV. If we have traumatic amputations from a car accident, it's because we DIDN'T think enough about NOT having traumatic amputations. If a 2 day old baby suffers 90% burns on their body, it's because the parents (or perhaps the child) needed that burn to happen in order to make their life complete.
proof:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=16988
"People get sick for their own purposes...'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=16996
"People choose ill health for their own reasons"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=17003
And yes you did decide to get that "painful, crippling...disease" for your own reasons. And now you're living through it...kicking and screaming....but living.
Of course, all I know or care to know about you is what you choose to put in your post. If you want me to know that you are in pain, disabled and uninsured then that is the life you want to project. Whether shit happens to me or not, it is not what my life is about so I won't mention it. Telling me about your pain and discomfort doesn't convince me of the reality of your disease, just your reaction to it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=17215
I'm saying WHATEVER you got you got for your own, obviously subconcious, intents and purposes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=17067
The question isn't "...where did this disease come from..." but rather "Why did this disease come to me...".
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=17056
To get where I'm at..."total mental control over health...." all you need to realize is that your thoughts and beliefs create your reality.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)...I stand by whatever I've written in the past.
And I'm pretty sure Orrex remembers my points of view.Thank you just the same for the collection of 'my greatest hits'.
I'm fully cognizant of the anti-alternative medicine campaign around here and in the society generally. Am I the only one who see's which industry benefits from this action?
I'm forever astounded that a population who moans incessantly for a just health system, will turn on a dime and squeal indignantly when the status quo is challenged. It seems to be coming mostly from individuals who are 'heavily' invested in the 'status quo' either by chance or by choice.
I'm at the brink...chronologically, physically and mentally...of turning myself over to the medical industry.
But I'm making the mental choice to avoid them and continue with my 45 year old program of self-medication, diet and exercise.
.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)We must not forget the horrible, despicable, anti-liberal, "blame the victim" thinking this person engages in.
It's no different than the Republican idiots who claim pregancy due to rape is a gift from god. No different at all.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)It's doing such a good job. And it's good to know that being a "liberal" means absolving the individual of personal responsibility in the pursuit of a just society. I can now leave the heavy thinking to my corporate overlords.
"It's no different than the Republican idiots who claim pregancy(sic) due to rape is a gift from god. No different at all."
You can't be this clueless, surely.
If the only way you can counter opposing arguments is to blame them on "Republican-ism", you better go back to school.
.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I welcome your insults - it means you have no defense of your atrocious beliefs!
TZ
(42,998 posts)Did I mention that not only is my disease totally under control right now, my Mayo doctor will be taking me off my meds next year because I'm doing so well? Wow, you mean, he wants to take away $$$ from his buddies in Big Pharma? He must be stooopid.
Orrex
(63,426 posts)What else could possibly explain it?
TZ
(42,998 posts)Thanks, Orrex.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)Still.
LeftishBrit
(41,240 posts)to the economic right-wingers' attitude that if people are unemployed/poor/homeless, etc. it's because they don't choose to work hard and achieve 'success'; that anyone could get a job and earn a good living if they didn't choose to be 'dependent on welfare'; and that 'tough love' and deprivation of benefits is really good for poor people! Nowadays the British economic Right are particularly going after people claiming disability and sickness benefits, which makes the attitudes even more similar.
I can 'create my own reality' enough on DU to not see certain posts, and so haven't for a while; but it's depressing to know that some people have such attitudes.
It also reminds me of something I heard once, of how in the 80s, Reagan attempted to appoint someone to a position in the Health department. She was denied Senate confirmation after it was revealed that she had written articles to the effect that disabled people should not receive benefits, because their disability must have been imposed by God as a punishment for some sin - apparently even those with congenital disabilities. It's a good thing, at least, that she did not get confirmed.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)...and, to be honest, the bulk of it in my experience was on E & E and from certain regulars of that forum(like the "Stop consumption/Kill Growth or we go extinct" weirdos, and other such characters in that same mold), both on, and off that subgroup, as well as a few other things(mainly just from RW trolls, though.), but I gotta admit one thing:
This guy definitely takes the cake, by a long shot. Seriously, fellas, I'm being completely honest....NOTHING ELSE so far has ever really come close to the level of nuttiness of the ramblings of this CanSocDem fellow.....
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)
mr blur
(7,753 posts)Or fooled.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)fall for the painkillers they are prescribed like candy.
And then, once one is addicted, the state makes it harder to get the painkillers, and more of a felony if you possess even one.
So you can't get a legal script, you need a very real, Big Pharma-created fix, you buy one pill off the street, you get caught, you go to prison and your family is fucked.
The homeopathic route may seem the safer to some 
I'm not a pill person myself, but I know that a great many people are using painkillers to mask long term illness, as they can't afford surgery or other therapy to correct painful conditions.
Our health care isn't exactly administered in an egalitarian way; those without access just want to feel better, too. Whether the methods work or not remains to be seen. Traditional medicine can be "quackery" in some cases as well.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)As an MMJ patient, I agree with you on that.
As for homeopathy, I've never known water to cure anything other than dehydration
And yes, I'm also all for SOCIALIZED MEDICINE ala the UK
FloridaJudy
(9,465 posts)Allopathic ("conventional" medicine) went in for "heroic cures" that more often than not killed the patient. Homeopathy had the virtue of at least not making the patient worse, and may have racked up a cure or two due to either the placebo effect, or the fact that many patients recover on their own.
These days we don't treat infections by giving the patient enough mercury to make his or her gums bleed. Or treat acne with arsenic. To me homeopathy is just a remnant of a rather grim period in the history of medicine.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)And that goes for his peer reviewed research as well.
2 years ago I had high blood preassure, high cholesterol, back pain, lethargy, etc.
My doctor's answer was simple: Pills, pills and even mopre pills! Back braces, and even a light hearted discussion about opening up my chest and fiddling with my organs.
Instead, a changed over to a mosty vegan diet, and increased my exercise. My "crazy, hippie, new age" girlfriend insisted that I give it a try for just a month or so.
Cholesterol and BP are now at perfect levels, no more back pain, no more hair falling out, in great shape.
I had to go to the eye doctor to have my glasses made weaker- apparently even my eyes got better.
As for some of the other 40 year olds who choose the meds- they are still over weight, still on meds, and looking at type II diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc. But no worries- they got even more pills to "fix" all that. LOL.
My Dad purchased lipitor and his body hair started falling out. Then he was told to buy "Crestor" and it almost killed him. It may kill him yet- as he has never been the same since he took that garbage. I guess telling him to eat some freaking veggies would have been too new age or too wacked-out. This is at a hospital with a freaking McDonalds in the Children's Cancer ward, BTW.
yawnmaster
(2,812 posts)Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)n/t
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Imagine that, not listening made your hair fall out.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Not that I can hear them in any event.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Especially antibiotics
As for a vegan diet, many people enjoy vegan diets every day. If you like that, then good!
My guess, having never ever gone to med school is that something you were eating that came from meat, milk or eggs was bad for you. Allergy, toxic reaction or whatever.
Peer reviewed studies point out that there are more allergies, more toxic reations and food is less and less safe. In this case, it isn't all hype.
You start messing around with a living thing's DNA, and you are playing with fire. DNA works like a bunch of on off switches, turning one off, or another on. Sometimes one light switch turns on more than one light, and sometimes those "lights" can mean life or death. Until we know, for sure, the effect of each of those on/off switches, we shouldn't eat GMOs.
This isn't new-agey - this is solid science.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)I was being warned that I was on a path to heart disease, heart surgery, ect.
Instead of taking the pills, I cured myself by eating an apple a day, so to speak.
Yes- many people enjoy vegan diets everyday- and if they are eating non-processed, whole foods, they are healthier and less likely to get cancer, diabetes and heart disease than a meat-eater. Peer reviewed studies show this, for what its worth.
I know we can agree that "You are what you eat"- so I am with you on GMOs, etc.
More and more peer reviewed studies show that switching to whole-foods, vegan diet not only helps you avoid disease, but it can even reverse cancer, diabetes and heart disease- without the use of pill regimens, prying open your chest, bombarding you with radiation, etc.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)However, we're off the subject of homeopathic medicine, and now discussing the validity of a low-cholesterol, healthy diet.
And there, science agrees with you.
Today's medicine is finally studying prevention as opposed to curing, and this is a huge sea change in the medical community. You would be surprised how much it is.
But, once again, peer reviewed studies are showing that an ounce of prevention is really worth a pound of cure.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Glad we can agree!
My point is that I can see why some folks dont trust certain doctors. Over-medication and visits to the hospital are a major cause of death these days.
In my case, I am actually trusting one set of doctors over another-so point taken.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Came about at the same time as Chiropractic Care, Vitalogy and Phrenology.
The idea is that to treat, say, poison ivy, you take a medicine that has poison ivy in it, and then dilute it and dilute it to the point there is no more poison ivy in the "medicine"
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)With similar results, no doubt. LOL!
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Throwing the BigMac away, then shaking and diluting said water.
That should cure herpes!
REP
(21,691 posts)Oh.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)All I can say is that eating more plant based foods works for me.
REP
(21,691 posts)Sushi is not necessarily sashimi.
Nonetheless, if he ate a few shreds of met or fish with his seasoned rice, it didn't cause his death. Delaying surgery did.
Eating a vegan diet didn't save his life, but I hope it made him happy, just as I hope yours does you. There are many excellent reasons to go vegan - starting (and ending) with "want to," but a guarantee against cancer isn't one of them. One of the most terrible things about cancer is there is no way to guarantee avoiding it, no matter how careful, prudent or cautious one is.
I'm 20+ years officially cancer-free; in part from early diagnosis and aggressive treatment and in part, pure dumb luck.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)FloridaJudy
(9,465 posts)Can do wonders for your health.
But about that McDonalds in the cancer ward. Sometimes the challenge is to get those kids to consume enough calories to stay alive. When a kid is puking his guts out from radiation and chemo is not the time to try to get him to eat more broccoli. I agree that McDonalds food is unhealthy in the long run, but in the short run, if all the kid can keep down is donuts and chocolate shakes, so be it. I have a friend who has always been extremely careful about her son's diet and who is herself a pediatric nurse, who is facing this right now. At this point, she doesn't care what he eats, as long as he eats. Period.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)It's not like a child is suffering from cancer b/c his body was not producing enough natural radiation. Many peer reviewed studies show that cancer is caused by what you eat or do not eat.
Im skeptical about radio-active waves that would cause my body to reject veggies in favor of harmful, cancer causing junk food.
Also, maybe eating McDonalds type food is what unlocked the cancer genes in the 1st place? A peer reviewed study called "The China Study" shows that it does.
If so, then all McDonalds does is feed the cancer even more.
I read about a lady who decided not to take the chemo and went on a radical all fruits & veggie diet instead. Her cancer is under control and she now lectures all over the country. "Crazy Sexy Cancer" is the book she wrote about her experiences. Her results reflect the research in the above mentioned China Study, as that book also notes several examples of people reversing cancer (And type II diabetes, and Heart Disease) with an all vegan diet.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)We know the mechanism is in place, but whether certain foods can trigger that unlocking is still a matter of debate. Yes, there are a bunch of studies showing that it does - but there are a number of studies suggesting it may be correlation and not causation.
If you ask me, I'd do both the chemo, radiation and healthy diet.
I'm not placing my life in the hands of woo.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)It is one of the most comprehensive, peer reviewed studies on the links between disease & nutrition, and it adresses many of the correlation not causation critiques.
To say that cancer is not realted to what goes intot he body seems counter-intuitive to me.
Hands of Woo? LOL! Sure- why do anything crazy or radical when you could do sane, normal things like bombard your body with radiation, or have your chest pried open.
"Are you with me Doctor Woo?..." or "You are what you eat!"
If you ask me, I would continue eating a vegan, whole-foods diet rather than winding up on an operating table or hooked on pills.
I'm not willingly placing my life in the hands of trans-national, corporate , Republican-owned pill pushers.
Archae
(46,431 posts)Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Half of the debunking in your link is adressed in the study itself.
Again, have you read it?
Everyone who tells me that a vegan diet is not healthy, or that studies backing this up are fake always falls into one of the following categories:
Has not read the studies.
Eats meat and takes lots of pills.
Has cancer, diabetes or heart disease and is convinced that the food they eat has little or nothing to do with it.
Someone who makes their living off keeping people on pills.
Ignores the fact that Asians do not get cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc. in the same rates as we do until they adopt a western diet. This means that while genes are a factor, whether diet can unlock cancer genes may also be a factor.
Or a combination of all the above.
The doctors who supposedly debunked it- did they run 6 miles on their 75th birthday? The scientist who produced the China Study did.
I am waiting on a healthy, fit , trim 40 year old who is not on ANY meds and in better shape than me to tell me what I am doing is wrong. Still waiting, and I'll be waiting for a while.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Last edited Mon Oct 22, 2012, 03:26 PM - Edit history (2)
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/07/china-study-author-colin-campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger.htmlLOL! My website can beat up your website!
But seriously, read the book. Dont read it and weep, read it, follow it, and be healthier than ever.
Also- Cambell does not advocate vitamin pills and supplements as the de-bunking suggests. If anything, he characterizes these as marketing gimicks. He advocates a whole-foods, plant based diet, not vitamin pills and supplements.
It almost looks like these people have not even read the China Study, or worse, they are mis-characterizing it on purpose.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)23-year-old Minger lists her educational and professional qualifications on her Facebook page as writer, Catholic school teacher, summer camp instructor, and "Professional Sock Puppeteer."
LOL! So much for all the high-ended talk about science and peer review- which Dr. Cambell follows, BTW.
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/07/china-study-author-colin-campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger.html
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)From your link:
For an extremely detailed critique of the Campbells' work I recommend Minger's "The China Study: Fact or Fallacy?"
The Reality:
23-year-old Minger lists her educational and professional qualifications on her Facebook page as writer, Catholic school teacher, summer camp instructor, and "Professional Sock Puppeteer."
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Diet does make a difference, but as to how much and what constitutes "healthy" food
Depending on your needs, Palm Oil can either be extremely healthy, or extremely unhealthy
As per McDonalds and fast food, the most dangerous aspect of that stuff is not the food itself, but the amount of sugar (both in dextrose and fructose) and sometimes the amount of salt.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Doncha think she's a little "wooish"?
Why is the "research" from a children's puppeteer even in this thread?
I thought you guys were all about peer reviewed science. You know, like the studies put forth by qualified scientists, like Cambell & Co.
Also, McDonalds is dangerous b/c of the food itself, unless you want to back-track on your comments about GMOs. Not to mention that it is mostly meat, cheese and processed- things directly realted to heart disease, diabetes and many cancers, per peer reviewed studies.
Have you read The China Study?
Taverner
(55,476 posts)The China Study isn't 100% accurate either - definitely a case of writing the conclusion before the hypothesis
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)n/t
Taverner
(55,476 posts)At least the brief and conclusions.
And I've read a number of critiques against it.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)A brief prepared by who- the critics?
If you go back and actually read the whole book, many of these so-called critiques were predicted and adressed.
I read the above link that supposedly exposes Cambell's peer reviewed scientific study as "fake"-and that is my analysis.
It looks like they did not read it either. Cambell in fact does address genes and environment as related to cancer- but both are linked to nutrition.
Also, Cambell does not focus on vitamin pills and supplements, as the above link indicates- from what I can remember from my reading, he charactierizes them as marketing gimicks and stresses the imporatnce of getting nutrients from whole foods. It's like they are making stuff up out of nowhere.
You have not even read the book, yet you make definite conclusions about it being "fake."
So much for all the high-handed talk about peers, science, doing your research, etc. Maybe we should just put on a big puppet show about how great meat is and call it a day?
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Do you read phonebooks when bored?
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)I read the book AND what your summer-camp puppet lady had to say.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)End of story.
FloridaJudy
(9,465 posts)I'd rather place my life in the hands of a bunch of people who use careful, peer-reviewed research to pick their mode of therapy over a bunch who cherry-pick their data to support their preconceptions.
Sometimes that latter description fits the pharmaceutical industry as well, but it doesn't apply to the scientific community as a whole. I, for one believe that a diet that includes mainly unrefined, plant-based food is better for one's health than the highly processed crap common to most Western diets, and I suspect any unbiased research would bear that out. But I'd need to see that research before I stated that as proven fact.
The degenerative diseases that kill or cripple most of us now are multi-factorial: cancer, heart disease, dementia, etc. Some of it's due to environment, but a lot of it is genetically determined. Anyone who claims it's just one or the other isn't thinking clearly.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Actually, the China study shows that environmental factors cause cancer when coupled with certain diet or lack there-of.
Per the China Study-
Meat-fed lab rats exposed to known carcinogens developed cancer at higher rates. Veggie-fed lab rats who were also exposed to the same carcinogens did not develop cancer, or if they did, at lower rates. In fact, the cancer was even reveresed in the rats who did get cancer, once they were switiched to plant based diet.
Not to mention Heart Disease and Diabetes, which we know are caused by eating fats and too much cholesterol (AKA meat, cheese)
Genes? Again , we cant ignore the fact that Asians do not get cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc. in the same rates as we do until they adopt a western diet. This means that while genes are a factor, whether diet can unlock cancer genes may also be a factor.
So yes, I am thinking clearly- I've looked at arguments that consider genes and environment.
It's all in the book, plus much more.
You should read it.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)23-year-old Minger lists her educational and professional qualifications on her Facebook page as writer, Catholic school teacher, summer camp instructor, and "Professional Sock Puppeteer."
LOL! Talk about "woo"
I thought all you guys were skeptics or something. Sock-puppets???? LOL!
Archae
(46,431 posts)
By this same "logic" I should depend on WND for information about Obama and the Democrats.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)If it is a faulty source, then refute some of the facts it presents, namely the pupeteer's lack of scientific qualifications.
... the China Study, IMHO, does not pass the most basic smell test. All animal protein is the mortal enemy? I doubt it.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Have you read it, or did you just smell it? LOL.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Why can't you admit it?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)The main critic of the China Study sited in this thread is a summer camp puppeteer, not a doctor aor a scientist.
The person you are thanking has mischaracterized what the China study says (see my un-refuted response)- you would have caught that if you had read it.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)... when they are either merely very preliminary or crap.
It's clear that you don't understand how science works, so don't pretend that you do.
Reality: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/385/
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... and you know what they call the one who graduated dead last?
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Answer: "Doctor"
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)the best that can be done it to treat a chronic condition or wait for a terminal illness to run its course. People sometimes turn to homeopathic or other alternative medicines when there is no other hope. Even false hope can be better than no hope.
I'm not advocating homeopathic remedies. But, it didn't harm my MIL this last year when my BIL made some special tea for her, and it let him feel like he was doing something.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)That is, using botanicals.
This works, as long as there is actually enough active ingredient in the meds, AND it has been shown to work
Example: Chamomile Tea. It will help an upset stomach. As long as the teabag actually has chamomile in it, and not sawdust.
revolution breeze
(879 posts)Two weeks ago mother sent me to buy sage to cleanse the room and certain crystals to place on the window sills and bed. A lady has been coming each day to massage grandmere's arms and legs with oils. It won't help. but it makes mother feel better. At this point, I would visit the voodoo store if she asked.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)May you all find peace these next few days.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)That's why.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Sophiegirl
(2,338 posts)While I agree that much of the homeopathic "cures" are either false or extremely exaggerated. But for minor conditions, such as upset stomach, headaches, etc., there are some "natural" treatments.
Such as, believe it not, peppermint for an upset stomach. Lavender in insence, candles or bath salts to release tension. I'm not talking about curing cancer here, but things that the Far East has used for centuries to relieve these types of ailments. Natural plants used. Not some of the other nonsense you see in infomercials.
Homeopathic has become a four letter word, used for marketing purposes only.
progressoid
(50,123 posts)Homeopathic remedies are prepared by repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in alcohol or distilled water, followed by forceful striking on an elastic body, called succussion.[7] Each dilution followed by succussion is said to increase the remedy's potency. Dilution usually continues well past the point where none of the original substance remains.[8] Homeopaths select remedies by consulting reference books known as repertories, considering the totality of the patient's symptoms as well as the patient's personal traits, physical and psychological state, and life history.[9]
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)progressoid
(50,123 posts)Randi for the win.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)That is using dietary supplements to solve problems
In so far that the active ingredient is present in the med (this isn't always the case) and the active ingredient actually works, then naturapathy works.
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)Such as magnets, crystals, homeopathy, and other stuff.
Of course, the herbalist area tends to be an area that can be anywhere from useful, to dangerous, to useless. Willow bark is essentially aspirin and marijuana has uses. But when we start talking about drinking a tea from a flower that looks like a vagina, so must be good for women's issues, then we crossed over from good herbalist practice into the area of woo.
So even in that area, one must be careful.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Sawdust passed off as ginseng, etc
Ginseng does work for certain, um, things 
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Yes, the end product was a glass of water.
Placebrew Homeopathic Lager!
The ultimate in light beer!
0.0% ABV, zero calories, zero carbs!
Safe for pregnant women, legal for minors, great if you need to drive!
retread
(3,774 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)
zanana1
(6,159 posts)
cherish44
(2,566 posts)I was having almost daily debilitating panic attacks, heart palpitations, dizziness. Nothing in particular was triggering them, I wasn't going through anything particularly stressful. Just eating like crap and having a sedentary lifestyle.
Anyone who's ever had a panic attack can tell you. THEY SUCK! You feel like you're dying and going crazy...I went to the ER three different times, loads of tests. Nothing wrong with my heart, blood work perfect, MRIs clean. Nothing. The doctor gave me some very powerful anti-anxiety meds as well as Prozac..which did nothing to help, the anxiety attacks kept coming. Although what I did next wasn't homeopathic, it was advice given to me by a naturopathic doctor. I stopped taking the Prozac and the anti-anxiety medicine and I started taking a mixture of vitamins every day that she recommended. Also on her treatment plan was to start exercising and change my diet. No fancy fad thing...no gluten free, no low carb, no vegan stuff... Just a common sense healthy diet... lots of whole grains, fresh fruits and veggies and cut out on fried junk, refined sugar and cut out all caffeine. The last part of her treatment plan is something I'm sure many of you will scoff at but daily meditation. No hypnosis or chakra balancing, no crystals were involved. Just a guided relaxation CD with some soothing guitar music set to ocean waves. (I pick it out myself) I can report the her plan WORKED. I'm still following her plan to this day, I exercise an hour a day, eat well about 80 % of time (life's too short not to have dessert once in awhile). No more panic attacks and I honestly feel better and have more energy than I did when I was 25. A lot of people scoffed at the idea that advice from a naturopath proved better than conventional "give it a pill" medical treatment. And yes of course traditional medicine recommends exercise and a healthy diet for people. I am aware of this but not one doctor actually brought up the notion of changing my diet or fitness habits while I was seeking treatment. And no, this was NOT cancer or something life threatening. But I will say after this I'm convinced that in some cases, there are better alternatives to pharmaceutical treatments.
LeftishBrit
(41,240 posts)There's a lot of evidence out there that meditation can be very helpful to people with anxiety disorders. And healthy diet, though not a cure-all, is important and helpful in treating and preventing lots of problems.
I am glad you were helped to better health!
'not one doctor actually brought up the notion of changing my diet or fitness habits while I was seeking treatment.'
That's a pity, and a failing on the part of your doctors. The best doctors look at lifestyle as well as medicines. Which is not the same thing as saying that medicines are never necessary.
Homeopathy is different from dietary treatments or meditation, in that it does not do anything active. Which at least means it won't kill people, but it will not cure them either.