Why neither party can figure out Latino voters

[ancianita]

Last edited Sat Jul 29, 2023, 06:05 PM - Edit history (1)

I'd like to think that if anyone can increase the Latino vote, Joe Biden can.


A thousand thanks to Hermit-the-Prog for teaching me how to throw up YouTube "shorts" on DU!

[peppertree]

1. Republicans have been actively trying to drive a wedge between 'whiter' Latinos and the rest

They learned from Cuban-Americans that, regardless of national origin, white Hispanics hate being "lumped in" with Mexicans and Central Americans - who tend to be more indigenous and therefore darker-skinned.

For many white Hispanics, sadly, that very fear is often enough for them to vote GOP - which foreigners often see as the "white man's party."

Little do they realize that most Republicans detest white Latinos - and actually see them as more of a threat because they "look more American."

Qué será.

[ancianita]

2. Hoping the jovenes school them in one of the lies of a cult that presents itself

as a gateway to white legitimacy. Designated white Latinos get to stay white if they vow loyalty to trump. Until the cult leader changes his mind.

[peppertree]

3. Absolutely

My parents are from Argentina.

They can very much attest to the fact that, to most Republicans, it doesn't matter how white you are - if you're from South-of-the-Border.

Most see them as "invaders" and "job takers" (or worse) who simply don't belong here.

Most Republican voters privately (and not so privately) long for the day some RW strongman president "cleans the country up" of immigrant communities they don't like - and Latinos are at the top of the list.

Trump won their hearts by tapping into that hatred - "like nothing you've ever seen."

[ancianita]

4. ...

Wow, glad to know that about you. I have a family of friends in Río Cuarto, a bit noreste de Buenos Aires. When they were my Chicago neighbors they read the republican party instantly. It's apparent on FB that they're exhausted by the cult drama rethugs have become since they returned home to AR.

[peppertree]

6. Thank you, ancianita. Interesting anecdote.

Río Cuarto is in Córdoba Province - one of Argentina's most conservative. That may have had something to do with their choosing the GOP.

But I'm sure it didn't take them long to notice that, every time they opened their mouths (if they lived in a GOP-heavy area), the smiles turned to scowls faster than you can say caramba.

Republicans hear that accent - and they hate it. That's what Democrats should remind Latino voters of - which, besides, is very true, most of the time.

I hope your friends are doing well back in Argentina; these are difficult days, what with the foreign debt crisis Trump's pal Macri left behind.

They are one election away from an awful crash - if Macri's party gets back in this October, and enacts shock devaluation-with-currency deregulation (a windfall for the rich - but a disaster for most other people).

Their candidate, the neo-fascist Patricia Bullrich, looking "tough" in fatigues, as Security Minister for Trump's pal Macri in 2017 - when forces under her control were implicated in the murders of at least two activists:

[ancianita]

8. Sharing is important, imo.

Yes, Cordoba might be conservative but my AR friends chose the Democratic Party of IL and the US.

I've gathered from the Mendonca family's adult daughter (who was just a freshman when I knew them) that their country's democratic rule is endangered, and they've resisting Macri, though they haven't named names on FB, since neolibs surveil platforms; your using Bullrich's name here is the first I've heard of her.

Yes, Argentinians are in trouble since, as you show, the way neolib fascists work there isn't as constrained a here. If she believes in arming the populace, perhaps that can put the fear into Macri. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Bullrich

My friends seem to be doing okay, having taken a vacation to Portugal last year, but so far I just can't really tell.

I wish we knew more about Biden policies with our South American neighbors.

[peppertree]

10. Biden's been a real mensch to Latin America - especially Argentina.

The biggest single problem Macri left behind, you may recall, was a $45 billion IMF debt.

The record loan, granted to Macri during his ill-fated 2019 re-election campaign, was lent at Trump's insistence - who forced the IMF to break all its lending guidelines (the board was absolutely against the bailout) just to "save Macri."

What happened? He lost anyway, and 80% of the IMF bailout was used by local elites and foreign speculators to dollarize and offshore their Argentine peso assets.

Leaving Argentina stuck with the bill - but with few dollars to pay it back with.

Realizing this, Biden supported a deep refinance of the IMF debt - which has kept Argentina from defaulting on it (though just barely).

As he put it to Argentine President Alberto Fernández: "you and I have that in common: we both inherited disastrous economic policies."

Except in Argentina, they resulted in national bankruptcy - with all that implies.

[ancianita]

14. Hope that in spite of the economic disasters foisted on them, that Argentinians realize he tried

on their behalf.

[peppertree]

16. Many do - but RW Argentines actually resent Biden's help with the IMF debt. Politics, you know.

Why? Because they (or some) were hoping Argentina would collapse this year (!) - preferably before the elections this October.

One of them - far-right Congressman (and top Bullrich adviser) Luciano Laspina reportedly even hounded the IMF to not refinance the massive debt in the slightest.

"Let it all explode," he reportedly said to a top IMF official (probably Luis Cubbedú, IMF Mission Chief for Argentina) - who, as you can imagine, was shocked.

Laspina, after all, is Argentine!

Locally, they call him Malaspina - a fiend.

[ancianita]

18. I thought Biden backed what I've heard called a doctrine of "odious debt" of

any "despotic regime." It shouldn't only apply where people are murdered by their government or its corporate owners. It's depressing to think about how we've been such bad neighbors in the America's.

Just a couple of links that address debt. Ironically, it's been said that the US is still considered a "developing country."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_USA_Network

And even if our neighbors were to become debt free, their culture of race-based class remains.

[peppertree]

20. The problem's that the $45 billion IMF debt was taken on by Macri - who was democratically elected

The odious, dictatorship-era debt should've been recognized as such by Reagan - but at the time, it was mostly owed to big banks, whom as you know Reagan was always anxious to please.

Argentina's 1980-era debt has since been refinanced and rolled over many times, moreover - such that it would be legally impossible to claim all but a small bit (part of the Paris Club debt) as legally odious, you see.

As a side note:

The Bank of America, in fact, was practically bankrupted by Latin dictatorships - who borrowed tens of billions from BofA, only to default en masse in the early 1980s.

The Gianinnis - who were very fond of RW regimes, as you know - were forced to sell BofA to the Japanese as a result of their Latin largesse (it's since been sold several times, plus all the shareholders).

Now what was odious (and illegal), was Paul Singer's purchase of old, defaulted Argentine bonds on the black market - to then turn around and sue for 16 times more.

But he had Judge Thomas Greasa (may he rot) in his pocket - and Greasa forced Argentina to pay him (and the other vultures) some $9 billion.

They even stocked up on defaulted bonds just months before payout, once Macri was elected and a payout became certain.

Who says pirates are dead, right?

[ancianita]

22. (holy shit) Thanks. I've been unaware of all this and you've really given me cause to review

South American economics. Your "as you know" and "who says pirates are dead" lines are adorable.

However, outside some labor history, Black History, Black and Latino Lit teaching over a 35 year classroom life, travel to Cuba(twice), PR, and Costa Rica, and friends connected to AR, Chile, and Cuba, I've no explicit exposure to our neighbors' economic histories. Especially the banking end.

A couple of Latino histories, Carrie Gibson's El Norte, Peter Zeihan's geopolitical book, and paperback histories back in the day -- my reading and teaching some Latino classics and living a short driving distance from Chicago's Pilsen neighborhood -- have given me exposure as the basis for what I've posted. I don't consider myself well versed in many aspects of the economics of the Americas.

Lately I've only occasionally read outside of headlines. I posted this OP, truth be told, in hope of learning more.

So a big thank you for a fine set of posts about the politics/economics of things Latino; they're shifting my online attentions.

[peppertree]

23. You're very welcome - and thank you for your kind words.

Third world history is full of such tragic (and tragicomic) stories.

The world, I've read, is a giant college. We can learn much - but only if we want to.

That said, I'll check out your recommended reading. Thank you.

[MOMFUDSKI]

5. The rethugs never learned

that a countries’ wealth lies in its labor force.

[peppertree]

7. Sure. It would run counter to what the 1% want - and we can't very well have that can we.

You bring up a good point:

Republicans manipulate white working/middle-class voters just like they manipulate white Latinos: by pitting them against "those others that make you look bad."

If they were even half as good at governance, as they are at duplicity ad bad faith...

[MenloParque]

9. I'm hopeful we can get the Latino vote. A weird anecdote about Northern Mexico. I've experienced

More racism in the Northern Mexican state of Sonora than I ever had in the States. What the hell is going on there? I did learn many hate Central Americans, darker Indian-blooded Mexicans, and African Americans like myself as well. Never understood hate purely by skin tone. Fuck those Mexican racists!

[peppertree]

11. Sad, but true.

I'm sorry to hear all that.

But yes: race is a very prickly subject in Latin America - not least because it's intimately tied to social status.

It's the biggest factor in the Latin American social totem pole - more even than money is (though that's a close second).

A lot of that dates from colonial times (the 300 years until 1820 or so).

White landowners and other bigwigs would often use castizos (20% native) against mestizos (50% native), and mestizos against the mostly-or-100% native.

The same applied to Afro-Latinos - and to this day, as Brazilians will tell you, Afro-Brazilians who look like, say, Obama, will resent being called "black."

Republicans have come to understand all this - and are actively using this history against Latino voters. And with some, it works.

[ancianita]

13. I hope you & Menlo Parque are aware that Spanish capitalist kings & their conquistadors forced

Cuba & the Caribbean and South American countries to internalize both the patriarchy of Catholicism and the racism of their overlords. Since then their societies have been classed by race -- as the result of African human trafficking capitalism was established from -- as ours has been, and they have internalized fascism's class divisions by race for centuries.

Which is why they still lean Right, especially the Batista Cubans of Miami, for example, who've helped keep Florida red while the Mexicanos (admittedly many remain undocumented, drawn by corporate setups -- like the Fanjul family sugar monopolists) that use and abuse cheap labor there, and slave labor in the DR) and Cubanos of Tampa have voted blue. New Mexico, as the best example of La Raza's independence, is full of Chicanos who've never trusted Right Wing fascists from either here or South American countries; NM had been the longstanding blue state in a sea of red states, until its northern neighboring state of CO turned blue.

[peppertree]

17. No doubt about it.

I didn't mean to contradict that very good point.

My mention of the colonial era as the origin of that sad dynamic, in fact went to that same point you made.

And unfortunately, Republicans, who never showed the least interest in Latin American culture - beyond the parochial economic interests of this or that multinational - have come to understand that, and are now weaponizing this against Hispanic voters themselves.

Democrats should try to drive that point home: that the GOP is trying to use them against themselves.

The ol' divide-and-conquer - just like the Spanish Empire.

[ancianita]

19. It's also good to remember that

Republicans carry forward the antebellum legacy of class defined by race from the elites of the South and the capitalists, South (Charlesto/New Orleans) AND North (Rhode Island) who enriched them through slave trafficking.

They kept that legacy when they repudiated Truman's and Johnson's decisions and switched from calling themselves Democrats to remake the Republican Party by racist/fascist/nazi principles held mostly by Southern states.

No pretence of governance now, they just follow instructions from their fascist anti-democratic dark money overlords
-- which, as you say, is just divide-and-conquer with any growing voter demographic.


To the main point of the OP, I've noticed that a) media don't cover the TX efforts of the Castros; also b) Biden hasn't had Latino endorsements yet, so I hope he can sell them on his economic efforts, which are a high voting priority for them.

[peppertree]

21. That's them.

Medievalists through and though - with all that implies.

Biden, above all, should use Repugs' words and actions against them.

From the horse's mouth, as they say.

[Escurumbele]

12. It is actually not that difficult. One thing the Biden administration has not done is to publicly

give their support to the Venezuelan people and maybe place some more penalties, sanctions directly on the people from the regime, and make it public. Also, and why not, make a show of wanting to get Maduro out from power.

Why do I say this works very good? Because I know a lot of Hispanic people who live in Florida, in different cities, and I know a lot of people who live in Venezuela, they all think that trump was good for Venezuela against the regime, and only because they heard him say so, not because they have any proof. The 2nd set of sanctions that were placed to Venezuelan leaders was done during trump's stunt as president, but those sanctions had been already been prepared during Obama's last year in office, the republicans did not allow him to place the sanctions, but as soon as trump went to the WH, they placed those sanctions and made a lot of noise about it.

The belief that trump was good for Venezuela is so bad, that I have offered a lot of people a read of John Bolton's chapter 9 of his book "The Room Where It Happened: A White House Memoir", which is 100% dedicated to Venezuela, where he explains how Putin told trump to not mess around with Maduro because Juan Guaido was weak, so trump told Bolton that Maduro was "Strong and Intelligent" and of course, Juan Guaido was weak, so any plans to down the regime were off.

Juan Guiado was recognized as the president of Venezuela, but trump weakened Guaido and all those efforts came tumbling down.

If Biden's administration does not make some noise about helping Venezuela, it is going to be very hard to sway voting Hispanics to vote for him. What I am writing here is a fact. All Hispanics understand the horrible situation Venezuela is in, and they all want the USA to help resolve it, both Obama and trump failed to help, although this issue could have been resolved during GW Bush's administration, but they decided not to.

[ancianita]

15. If Trump and Biden are ever in the 2024 contest, I worry abou what Biden would say to get the Latino

Last edited Sat Jul 29, 2023, 07:53 PM - Edit history (1)

vote when it comes to his work re Venezuela, if he's not been supportive. He should be doing more because he knows he should.

Cuba seems to have been a material supporter of Venezuelans, but was driven off by Trump. And now, as you claim, if Biden has done diplomatic and material outreach with both countries' people, I don't know why not. Blinken must really be working his diplomacy hard these days as a result of Trump's foreign relations disasters. I can't blame our neighbors for not trusting our government.