Ralph Nader On The Rise of Bernie

[thomhartmann]

[2naSalit]

1. I have no respect for

Ralph since the 2000 stolen election, he has nothing of value to add to the electoral process and, therefore, is not worthy of my time to listen to him.

[zalinda]

2. Over 300,000 Democrats voted for Bush

over 97,000 voted for Nader. He made no real difference in the race. If Gore had been a better candidate, those 300,000 DEMOCRATS wouldn't have voted for Bush.

A failed campaign put the loss on Nader, when it shouldn't have been even a close race. The Democratic Party needed a scapegoat, so they chose Nader.

Z

PS. I was a fuck Nader person too, until I saw the facts.

[pnwmom]

16. Nader made a huge difference in the state. He didn't just control a SINGLE vote,

like those former Dems, most of whom had been voting GOP ever since Reagan.

He attracted the votes of 95,000 progressive Floridians who bought Nader's lie that Bush and Gore were just "Tweedledee and Tweedledum."

[SusanCalvin]

30. No, he didn't cost Gore the election.

I still have no interest in any of his political opinions.

[Plucketeer]

5. I challenge you to listen to it

and tell me that his ideas for making our reps listen to us are worthless.

[CobaltBlue]

7. I have complete respect for Ralph Nader

He is consistently correct.

For example: During the 2008 election season, he recognized Barack Obama is a corporatist. Democrats didn’t give it thought; they found out that was accurate soon after he took office; they complained about it throughout Obama’s presidency; and, here in 2016, they are shilling for Hillary Clinton while dumping on traditional liberal Bernjie Sanders.

I laugh at everyone who says he/she does not respect Ralph Nader. Very ignorant.

[sweetloukillbot]

9. I believe the words he used for President Obama were "Uncle Tom". N/T

[CobaltBlue]

11. Wasn’t that…

Cornel West?

(I’m not certain.)

[sweetloukillbot]

12. Maybe also, but Nader did on one of the news stations on election night 08

[TIME TO PANIC]

15. ...And? n/t

[sweetloukillbot]

18. So are you agreeing with his racist description of President Obama?

[TIME TO PANIC]

19. No, I think Obama is a true believer in neo-liberalism.

I don't think Nader is a racist, he was calling Obama a sellout.

[sweetloukillbot]

20. So it's okay to use a racist term against the first African American president if he is a sellout

Gotcha.

[TIME TO PANIC]

21. No, I don't think Nader is a racist, and I don't think he meant that term in a racist way. n/t

[sweetloukillbot]

22. Non racist way?

You know who uses racial slurs? Racists.

[TIME TO PANIC]

23. So you think Ralph Nader is a racist. I don't.

We'll just have to disagree.

[sweetloukillbot]

25. The evidence was on national TV. When confronted on it he doubled down.

He clearly felt it was acceptable to call an African American an Uncle Tom. He also said Obama was trying to "talk white". Actions speak loudly here.

[Fairgo]

27. I am troubled by your obsession with finding ways to say the phrase "Uncle Tom"

I think your strategy is race baiting, which is itself a form of racism.

[sweetloukillbot]

28. I find people willing to defend the use of a racist term on a Democratic site disturbing

[Fairgo]

35. I find your obsession with being disturbed disturbing

wait a minute, i dropped my pearls.

[sweetloukillbot]

37. Since you're so willing to defend racial slurs

Maybe Free Republic or Discussionist is more your speed?

[Fairgo]

40. I also find your assumption of omnipotence and omniscience

laughable

[TIME TO PANIC]

31. He was out of touch, no doubt about it.

The "talk white" statement dug his hole even deeper. I still don't think he's hateful or that he thinks certain races are inferior to others.

I think he's a moral guy, who made some foolish and insensitive statements without thinking before he spoke.

[sweetloukillbot]

32. Then he should have said "Whoops, I fucked up"

Because we wouldn't tolerate that from a Republican. Or Biden or Bill Clinton for that matter. And when the dumbfounded newscaster called him on it, he doubled down.
And then I got to listen to all my Naderite friends say "Well, it's true."
Just like they're doing here.

[TIME TO PANIC]

39. Yes, he shouldn't have let his ego get the best of him. n/t

[Loki]

54. Did you vote for him in 2000?

You seem so ready to support him and not President Obama.

[TIME TO PANIC]

56. I voted for Gore, Nader wasn't on the NC ballot in 2000.

I've voted for Obama three times, but politically my views are closer to Nader's.

[shenmue]

43. Sanders is not a traditional liberal

[SusanCalvin]

60. Depends on your definition.

FDR liberal, while not leaving out women and minorities? Yes, please.

[TIME TO PANIC]

14. Sure, don't blame the Right, blame the Left.

Gore won in 2000! Bush stole Florida.

Don't blame Nader, blame Bush!

[SusanCalvin]

50. I do blame Bush. Specifically, JEB!

Along with Harris and the SCOTUS.

[PatrynXX]

36. well he gained it back after the bullies this year

and oddly how can you say you lost respect during a stolen election. those don't go together. You either blame him for the lose or the Florida fuckup not both. More people voted for Al Gore than Bush. By a Wide margin. Ralph had nothing to do with it. Get over it. It was the Supreme Court not Ralph who selected the president.

[Petrushka]

46. There's more than "the electoral process" at stake in a participatory democracy.

Surely you aren't interested in only something "of value to add to the electoral
process," are you?

I don't care much for Ralph either. However: What he's talking about works!

If you listen, you might learn how to empower yourself and your neighbors,
learn how to influence your representatives in Washington---not to mention
those at the State, County, and City level---unless, of course, you believe
(as too many do!) that the only thing necessary to make a difference is your
voting, then sitting back waiting for results until the next election . . . meantime,
wondering how banksters and corporations usurped the place and power of
"We, the people...."

If you listen and, then, act on what you learn, you'll find the empowerment
you receive worth the time you spent.

It's all good!

[SusanCalvin]

52. He couldn't have foreseen 2000. Who could have?

But after that he should not have run in 2004, IMHO.

[merrily]

3. I have the greatest respect for the work Nader did. His comments in the last 5 or so years though

have included some real head scratchers.

I have no problem with his having run in 2000, though. That was his right. Gore should have been a better candidate. Some say he won anyway; some say no, he really didn't. I don't think it much matters at this point. What matters more, IMO, is whether we do better going forward.

[PatrynXX]

38. He did win the popular vote

and oddly this might factor into this year on Delegates vs Popular Vote. It's not the Popular vote that elects.

[SusanCalvin]

51. He also won Florida and therefore the election, SCOTUS to the contrary. nt

[merrily]

61. If you mean Gore, different sources say different things about whether he won the popular vote.

However, if you post on DU that he won the popular vote, someone is likely to reply--"But Nader made it close enough to steal." Well, maybe Gore made it close enough to steal, too. It was Gore's job to win, and Democrats' job to make sure Gore won, not the job of Nader and people who voted for Nader to make sure Gore won. So, whether Gore won the popular vote or not, Gore should have been a better candidate and Democrats should have been better supporters of Gore. I am so tired of anti-democratic whining about Nader.

[Uncle Joe]

4. This sounds like a promising idea.

Thanks for the thread, thomhartmann.

[MrMickeysMom]

6. I have a great deal of respect for Ralph Nadar...

I don't say that to be contrary to the first post, on the contrary, I value everyone weighing in on the conversation here.

I wish that I wasn't working at the time of this conference found here: https://www.breakingthroughpower.org

This is what democracy SHOULD look like. What this video addresses is the attempted answer as to HOW.

K&R

[Gregorian]

8. Brilliant ideas. America sorely underestimates this man.

The answer is right in this video. He'd have been so much better than Gore.

I've just resubscribed to Hartmann again.

[johnp3907]

13. No thanks.

[TIME TO PANIC]

17. Nader makes establishment hacks uneasy. nt

[shenmue]

44. Nader is a hack

[SusanCalvin]

49. No, he's not.

He accomplished a great deal for which I am grateful.

[CanSocDem]

24. Great interview. Thanks for posting.

I sometimes worry that too many Americans aren't '...doing their homework' when it comes to understanding their political system.

It's easier to blame someone else for the lack of democracy in the USA.


.

[Fairgo]

26. Thanks for the insight

It has been an honour to have you shining the light from the left all of these years.

[SusanCalvin]

29. I have zero interest in any of Nader's political opinions. nt

[TIME TO PANIC]

33. Why? n/t

[zalinda]

34. When a Democrat loses, you have to blame someone other than the candidate. eom

[TIME TO PANIC]

41. and the blame always points to the left.

...even when there's proof that republicans stole the fuckin' thing.

Amazing!

[SusanCalvin]

42. I am aware it was stolen and not by Nader.

Assume much? Apparently.

And wait for a reply from the actual person you were asking much, before beating your head against the wall? Apparently not.

[SusanCalvin]

48. No, I blame the Florida Republicans and the SCOTUS. nt

[SusanCalvin]

45. Because he ran for president as a spoiler, even though I don't believe he cost anyone an election.

If he'd had a real chance, like Bernie, I would have been all for it. But I can't see that his runs accomplished anything except as cover for election fraud. (No, of course I'm not accusing him of election fraud. But he provided an excellent excuse, and then he did it AGAIN. Maybe I couldn't blame him in 2000, but I do in 2004.)

[zalinda]

58. He was trying to get out a message.

It's was a message that could only be heard on a large stage. He didn't set out to be a spoiler, he wanted the Democrats to take a look at what was going on. He probably got pissed off, because he was sidelined, kind of like what Bernie has experienced and took it further than he probably first intended. It took a long time before the American people was ready to hear this message, and still some refuse to see that a problem exists.

Z

[SusanCalvin]

59. I completely understand.

I was just €©¥£ed that after 2000 he didn't sit out 2004. Throwing everything into dethroning Shrub would have been a great statement.

[Petrushka]

47. Thank you for the link. Please see . . .

. . . my reaction to the video at reply #46 (which was in reply to #1).

All best!

[ancianita]

55. I like his ideas about the "civic marathon." Ad hominems can't diminish this man's ideas.

Last edited Sun May 1, 2016, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Some good ones:

1. That we have to have people who don't suffer from "justice fatigue," people who have long attention spans...

2. The Citizens' Summons: A decentralization idea where all it takes is 1% of people in congressional districts that reflect majority opinion to turn Congress around using 435 districts with people who pledge 300-500 hours a year, an office with 3-4 full-time people; they then summon their senator & representative to their own town meetings to tell them where they want the country to go, set a legislative agenda and even write bills...

3. 500 people summoning a senator/rep WILL be responded to

4. Told a billionaire that for $5 million you could make the Pentagon auditable in 2 years

Good stuff.

[SusanCalvin]

57. Thank you for the summary.

I'm not totally against him. Appreciate him a lot. Just have some quibbles.

ETA.

DAMN!!!!

Okay, I may have to watch.

And just bookmarked.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

62. Hey Ralphie

Is your Cisco stock dividend better these days?

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/06/27/ralph-nader-turns-rightest-on-cisco/