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JohnyCanuck

(9,922 posts)
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:22 PM Nov 2013

Oliver Stone – “I feel like a dissident against the American Empire”


Filmmaker Oliver Stone and Historian Peter Kuznick sit down with RT's Sam Sacks to talk about their mini-series "The Untold History of the United States." The two also address the latest news about NSA surveillance, drones, and Wall Street greed. And Oliver Stone explains why he feels like a dissident against the US empire.
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Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
2. Like his movie JFK, Stone's Untold History of the United States was largely a work of fiction...
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:37 PM
Nov 2013

He's still a fantastic filmmaker, but yeah.

haikugal

(6,476 posts)
12. Too true Tom...
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:45 PM
Nov 2013


on edit…I'm assuming you mean on site not this thread….the comments on thread look great to me!

Zen Democrat

(5,901 posts)
4. I encourage you naysayers to read the book from which the Series was made.
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:09 PM
Nov 2013

Hint: It's NOT in the Fiction section. And it's heavily footnoted. So do you guys think that if it wasn't taught to you in school that it never happened?

Remember, history is written by the winners, not the losers. The story of the takeover by the militarists of the 1944 Dem Convention when Wallace was thrown over for Truman was incredible stuff that actually DID happen.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
5. Can't get the series, but I will read the book
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 04:48 PM
Nov 2013

am I now a dissident?

have been thinking about Zinn's The Peoples History, but I think I'll start with this one? Have you read that one?

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
7. Logically, start with Zinn's "People's History of the United States"…
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 05:15 PM
Nov 2013

… Then, pay attention to what didn't make it into the "history books".

Stone knows how to draw from history, and separate it from poetic license. Look back to his movies and documentaries, then examine this series, and you will understand what I am talking about.

I find it rather odd that people in general on this board cannot distinguish much of the creative speculation passed on as history in the history books to that which is footnoted and based in history.

BelgianMadCow

(5,379 posts)
8. Well, between Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine & Chomsky's Failed States
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 05:30 PM
Nov 2013

I've had several jaw drop moments already. But I'll start with Zinn then, thanks for your advice!

tblue

(16,350 posts)
14. Well said. I am all for
Sun Dec 1, 2013, 12:56 AM
Dec 2013

the people's perspective of history. Everything else is propaganda for the already powerful and must be examined with a critical eye. I am all for transparency and truth. We need more of those, not less.

JohnyCanuck

(9,922 posts)
10. Great interview. Thanks for posting.
Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:13 PM
Nov 2013

One thing I found of interest was around the 17 or 18 minute mark when OS was contrasting the calmer, more rational, law enforcement approach the European countries took to deal with the terror attacks they experienced during the 70s & 80s compared to the over the top way he believes Bush and the neocons lead the US into responding to the 9/11 terror attacks on NY and Washington.

What's interesting to me is that while he credits rational security measures along with good behind the scenes detective and police work in tracking down and halting the terrorist wave in Europe, he does not mention that much of the terror experienced by the Europeans at the time it was later discovered originated as false flag terror by NATO/CIA/MI6 supplied and sponsored, right wing "stay behind armies". These false flag operations went under the code name Operation Gladio (the name originally used for the Italian branch of this underground army) or "The Strategy of Tension."

Some (by no means all) of these stay behind armies it was discovered went beyond their supposed mandate to stay behind and fight a resistance war against any Soviet invasion force and instead ventured into engaging in terror tactics using the explosives and arms with which they were being furnished under the auspices of NATO . The idea behind these attacks was for the attacks 1) to be blamed on the left with the goal of discrediting communist and leftist politicians and political parties and 2) to encourage a scared and traumatized public to to turn to their governments for protection and in the process willingly giving up their accustomed freedoms and civil rights.


NATO’s Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe
A digest of the Book "NATO's Secret Armies" By Swiss historian Daniele Ganser

snip

Judge Felice Casson

The scandal originally came to light in Italy in 1984 when an Italian judge Felice Casson reopened the case of a terrorist car bomb in Peteano in 1972 and uncovered a series of anomalies in the original investigation. The atrocity which had originally been blamed on the communist Red Brigades turned out to be, in fact, the work of a right wing organization called Ordine Nuovo. Following the discovery of an arms cache near Trieste in 1972 containing C4 explosives identical to that used in the Peteano attack, Casson’s investigation revealed that the bombing in Peteano was the work of the military secret service SID (Servizio Informazioni Difesa) in conjunction with Ordine Nuovo. The intention had been to blame the bombing on the extreme left wing militant outfit, the Red Brigades. The right wing terrorist, Vincenzo Vinciguerra was arrested and charged and confessed to planting the bomb.

Judge Casson’s investigation also revealed that the Peteano bombing was the continuation of a series of bombings begun at Christmas 1969, the most well-known of which, on the Piazza Fontane in Milan, killed 16 and injured 80. The bombing campaign culminated on 2 August 1980 with a massive bomb in the waiting room of Bologna railway station which killed 85 and injured 200. It was one of the largest terrorist outrages on mainland Europe in modern times.
The Strategy of Tension

During his trial, Vincenzo Vinciguerra revealed that, in addition to discrediting left wing political groups, there had been a second, even darker aim behind the bombings, namely to inculcate a climate of fear among the general populace. This was known as the ‘strategy of tension’ which was intended to generate a pervasive sense of fear which would encourage the population to appeal to the state for protection.

Vincenzo Vinciguerra claimed during his trial:

‘You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public to turn to the State to ask for greater security.’


In a BBC documentary Gladio, he described the aim as to ‘destabilise in order to stabilise’… ‘To create tension within the country to promote conservative, reactionary social and political tendencies.’

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Operation_Gladio

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
16. Some people have suggested that his DUI arrests and drug possessions have silenced him.
Sun Dec 1, 2013, 09:58 AM
Dec 2013

Published May 29, 2005
Associated Press

BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. – Oscar-winning director Oliver Stone (search) was arrested for investigation of drug possession and driving while intoxicated, police said Saturday.

Stone, 58, was arrested Friday night at a police checkpoint on Sunset Boulevard after showing signs of alcohol intoxication, police Sgt. John Edmundson said.

A search of his Mercedes turned up drugs, Edmundson said. He did not specify what kind.

Stone was released Saturday morning after posting $15,000 bail.

...

In 1999, the filmmaker pleaded guilty to drug possession and no contest to driving under the influence and was ordered into a rehabilitation program.



At least Kuznik talks about Operation Northwoods

JohnyCanuck

(9,922 posts)
18. Thanks for posting another informative Stone/Kuznick interview.....
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 01:58 AM
Dec 2013

Interesting that in discussing the 9/11 attacks, Stone and Kuznik see them as blowback reactions caused by Muslim resentment of US actions in the Middle East. The 9/11 attacks they seem to believe were eagerly seized on by the neocons as an unexpected but fortuitous gift of the "New Pearl Harbor" event they were convinced was the key to have the US public accept the need to spend massive amounts of money in building up the US military and its capabilities in preparation for securing the USA's place as the world's only superpower.

However, in light of previous planned and actual false flags and simulated provocations (e.g. Northwoods, Gladio, Gulf of Tonkin) I would have liked to hear their take on the Anthrax attacks which occurred shortly after 9/11. Evidence in the form of letters filled with anthrax spores and anti-US, anti-Israel,"Allah is Great" statements was clearly planted to implicate Muslim fanatics, but a more in-depth investigation showed the anthrax spores actually came from a US military lab. Furthermore, the two politicians who were sent anthrax letters by the terrorist(s) were the two Democrats who just happened to have threatened to hold up passage of the very inaptly named Patriot Act, Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy. Unsurprisingly, they then acted with all necessary haste to ensure the act was passed with no further roadblocks or holdups.

Coincidentally the White House staff had started taking the anti-anthrax medication Cipro on 9/11, a week before the attacks.


(If the above video won't play as an embedded video, try clicking the YouTube logo on the screen and watching it directly on Youtube)

The Untold Story of the 2001 Anthrax Attacks. Tom Hartmann interviews Eric Nadler, author of Dead Silence


 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
19. I hear ya Oliver.
Tue Dec 3, 2013, 02:10 AM
Dec 2013
- It's either that or collaborator. Those are the only positions available in a revolution.......

K&R

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''The public will believe anything, so long as it is not founded on truth.'' ~Edith Sitwell
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