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Sat Jan 18, 2020, 07:01 PM

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (applegrove) on Sun Jan 19, 2020, 11:22 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Jan 18, 2020, 07:28 PM

1. Education, government and corporate

Greed and power have been the formulating factors for the last 30-40 years it will take at least that long if possible at all to overcome this trend... Has to start somewhere and the power to do so actually,IMHO, is vested in the government. The people can decide if it will happen at the ballot box if they are allowed to do so.

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Response to Timewas (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 18, 2020, 07:33 PM

2. It was the ones who took control of the Republican Party.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Jan 18, 2020, 07:38 PM

3. It may have begun with Nixon's corruption and lawlessness

Followed by Reaganís overturning of the Fairness Doctrine, which cleared the way for Fox News. Then there were Reaganís huge cuts in income tax rates for the wealthy, and we canít forget that Republicans in Congress craft every law with an eye towards steering power and wealth away from its constituents and towards corporations and wealthy individuals.

We used to be a can-do country, which led to our status as a global leader. But now we are a no-can-do country, with no faith in ourselves, our leaders, or our institutions.

I have faith that we can turn this around, but we have some hard work and hard times ahead of us.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sat Jan 18, 2020, 08:14 PM

4. American culture prioritizes materialism, technology, winning and celebrity. None of those

Things demand integrity, honesty, generosity, compassion...
In fact, good character can stymie these American values.

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 18, 2020, 08:19 PM

5. +1

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 18, 2020, 08:33 PM

6. America gone to rack & ruin, Amen to that

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Jan 19, 2020, 12:47 AM

7. Because success in the U.S. is defined by how much money you have.

or what most think, myself not included.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 19, 2020, 06:54 AM

10. BINGO!

Not only success, but for some reason the general population seems to think that money equals intelligence and wisdom. I say HAH to that. I think it proves the opposite. An abundance of wealth is a sign of less than human practices. No one acquires wealth beyond a certain level without being a complete shiat to the rest of the population, lying and using whatever it takes to get you to give them money. Since this attitude seems mostly prevalent in the rethug party, either from those with the money or those who want some and are willing to be a sycophant for crumbs, we can surely start fixing this rot within our collective psyche by removing those who would see our country destroyed in the name of profit. Make no mistake people, these bottom feeders who wear American flags on their lapels and then allow legislation that would see millions without healthcare, a decent wage, or hope in our future. They MUST be removed from power. THEN, we can consider the real way to stop this self pandering from our elected officials. It is called 'term limits'...

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Jan 19, 2020, 01:06 AM

8. Given my role here, how should i behave?

maybe the most important post here today ...
👍🏻

✌🏼

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Response to dweller (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 19, 2020, 01:11 AM

9. With integrity. That is what the DU is. A look at the USA from a non corrupt

perspective. You do it fine dweller from what i see.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Jan 19, 2020, 10:52 AM

11. Or it was all smoke and mirrors to begin with.

Have institutions suddenly become more corrupt while I wasn't looking? Have priests just recently started abusing children, have bureaucracies suddenly decided to start covering up wrongdoing rather than boldly and forthrightly admitting it and correcting it? Was public education once about truth and beauty, and not about making good grades? When, oh when, I wonder, was this Golden Age when we could rely on our betters to Do The Right Thing and act for the good of all?

Perception is everything. Certain institutions had very good PR for many years -- centuries, even -- because they succeeded in hiding their misdeeds from the scrutiny of the public. The Organization Man knew that he had to toe the party line, mouth the right platitudes, and always, always put the good of the institution above all other considerations, or he wouldn't be in that organization very long. Why have Americans lost faith? Because the culture of silence has faltered, largely because the disgruntled can't be controlled in an open media world. There's a reason "whistleblowers" are hated ("finks" and "rats" are not recent terms), there's a reason the worst crime is never the crime itself, but revealing that a crime has been committed. Americans are losing faith because it is becoming increasingly clear that they've been sold a bill of goods since forever, and that "American Dream" the author is on about has always been a lie, true only for a small portion of the people in very specific conditions. But, oh, it sold well.

-- Mal

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Jan 19, 2020, 03:01 PM

12. Reagan era was when this started

When perception became more important than truth.

How often we see something is not good optics. That's more important than what is actually there.

Might be unpopular to say: the first thing I thought of was AOC. It is sometimes for good. But getting the cameras is more important than anything else.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Jan 19, 2020, 08:36 PM

13. Brown vs Board of Education, integration, voting, civil rights act...

All because of having to associate with ďthemĒ.

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Response to applegrove (Original post)

Sun Jan 19, 2020, 10:54 PM

14. The author of this steaming mound works for the American Enterprise Institute . . .

And it shows . . .

Let's see . . . "Vicious partisan polarization" . . . . self-serving members of Congress . . .
Trump . . . journalists . . . academics . . . athletes . . . science . . . law . . . all bear some blame, and all get at least a sentence or three.

Notice who isn't there?

Business, with the exception of one brief mention of "as when a bank cheats its customers" - and that's more than offset in the preceding paragraph by "We trust a business because it promises quality and reliability and rewards its workers when they deliver those."

Like Perdue Pharmaceuticals, ammirite?

Business and the MBA mentality - the whole leveraged buyout/chop-shop that American capitalism has degenerated into, massive financial and real estate fraud from ten years ago, obscenely bloated executive pay, the hollowing out of towns or whole regions because it's cheaper to make it in China/Indonesia/India, the head of Boeing, responsible for the design, manufacturing and sale of a shitty aircraft that killed 346 people walking away with $60 million after being fired. . .

It's not just that these phenomena are the most obvious examples of the rot he attempts to describe and ostensibly scold, it's the long-term rot that has done the most harm to the most people in this country, and he barely even breathes in its direction.

I'd like to cordially invite Yuval Levin to go fuck himself.

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Response to hatrack (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 19, 2020, 11:21 PM

15. Did not know he was AEI guy. Yikes. This article spoke to me

because liberal democracy is a human construct and you can either believe it and live within its rules or not live in it metaphorically. Trump is tearing it down and not living in it - he wants kaos where might wins. That is what Yuval Noah Harari and other thinkers are talking about. Sounds like this guy was trying to get out in front of the discussion and blame it on legislaters other than Trump and the right wing who have been dismatleling liberal democracy for 40 to 50 years. I will delete. And thanks for the heads up. I believe every issue should be looked at from various vantage points but i was wrong to post this op.

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