Disillusioned British jihadists beg to come home

[Turborama]

Last edited Fri Sep 5, 2014, 10:03 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: The Times UK (Via This Week)

Dozens of British jihadists fighting in Syria and Iraq have contacted intermediary groups in the UK appealing for amnesty and "begging to come home", according to The Times.

One jihadist contacted researchers at the International Centre for Study of Radicalisation and Political Violence (ICSR) at King's College London claiming to speak on behalf of a group of 30 fighters, all of whom wanted to return to Britain.

The man reportedly expressed fears that he and his comrades would face long jail terms if they attempted to return to the UK, but said that they would be willing to submit themselves to deradicalisation programmes and police monitoring.

It is believed that at least 500 Britons have travelled to the region since 2011, most of whom have ended up in groups affiliated with the Islamic State (IS) but many have grown disillusioned with the conflict

Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/middle-east/60290/disillusioned-british-jihadists-beg-to-come-home

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Posting from this source as The Times has a paywall.


Could be these nutters who thought it was all fun and games...

Jihad Selfies: These British Extremists in Syria Love Social Media
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/syrian-jihadist-selfies-tell-us-a-lot-about-their-war

[RKP5637]

1. To me, they took a one-way ticket! n/t

[Xipe Totec]

3. That's unwise

An enemy that has no choice but to continue fighting is the most dangerous enemy you will encounter.

[RKP5637]

5. As someone else mentioned, I was thinking along the line of a Trojan Horse. To me,

that's a pretty big line they crossed.

[Diclotican]

14. Xipe Totec

Xipe Totec

It is indeed a dangerously enemy - the one who have no another choice than to fight - but I would also point out - this gentlemen who traveled to Syria and Iraq - to fight for IS and ISIL - really did their bed as best as they could - and should not automatic be accepted into their country of birth - just because they was going tired of waging war for IS...

If they was allowed to go home - a vetting proses - where they have to explain all steps - from the day they decided to a smart move going to war in this areas of the world -defending Islam - as some put it - to the day they are stepping on british soil again - and if criminal activity have been shown - punishment according to the crime - as UK do not hang people anymore they would be in safe hands for that at least - even if they crimes is horrible...

Diclotican

[roguevalley]

60. To me, they were stupid. Bring them home and thirty less guns

against the innocent. Radicalization is real. If they can be saved, save them.

[Strelnikov_]

64. Possible intelligence coup

Bring them home under condition of charges leading to 10 years of probation and monitoring, basically what they have already agree to.

[RKP5637]

66. Good point! n/t

[PADemD]

2. Disillusioned or Trojan Horse?

[7962]

9. Thats a darn good point. I wouldnt put anything past them. They CAN go back,

in a coffin.

[Historic NY]

41. +1

[WhoWoodaKnew]

20. That's exactly what I was thinking!!!!

[Dale Neiburg]

32. I also go with the Trojan Horse analysis, but....

Last edited Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:37 AM - Edit history (1)

Suppose the UK were to announce that they could be repatriated if they did something concrete to demonstrate their change of heart? Something like, say, assassinating certain (named) high-ups within IS? That gives them a real incentive to turn their coats if they're sincere, inspires paranoia within IS leadership, and possibly schisms and internal violence within IS. At the least, IS might simply eliminate all European/American fighters who have joined them, which might in turn discourage a second wave from joining.

[jamzrockz]

34. Exactly

Its way too risky to let any of them back in. Let the Syrian Army deal with them now. The country would need workers to fix the country that they destroyed. Let them surrender to the SAA and maybe they will show them some mercy.

[Demit]

4. Yeah, no. I wouldn't let them back.

You can't know if they're sincere now, or if they want back to cause mayhem. They made their bed.

[littlemissmartypants]

6. War, it's not for breakfast anymore.

Last edited Fri Sep 5, 2014, 07:47 AM - Edit history (1)

Or for wimps. Why can't they stay and start their own democracy?



Thanks for your post, Turborama.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

27. Speaking of breakfast...

... or any meal for that matter... England has many old castles/walled estates in various states of disrepair. Why not offer them the chance to live in one, do the repairs/upkeep, grow their own food, feed themselves, and in turn, the US/UK offer not to bomb them from drones. Just a thought...

Of course, all of this would only be done AFTER any legal proceedings and information gathering is done. Life is full of trade offs, especially if you committed atrocious acts while doing your best to destroy your own citizenship.

[FarPoint]

7. Bring them back and lock them up.

They maybe trying to infiltrate their homeland.

[blackspade]

24. That term 'homeland' again.....

Nothing against you, it's that horrid Bush era term that has made it's way into the common lexicon.

[Katashi_itto]

8. You could always behead them on pay-per-view.

Might send a message to others that want to join.

[cosmicone]

31. I like that idea

no matter how unlikely it is that it will ever happen.

[Amonester]

46. I would prefer teaching lessons of history to young kids inside classrooms...

instead of showing them how to click buttons on small screens...

But it's just me.

[leftynyc]

10. If they want to come back

and go to prison, fine. Otherwise I wouldn't trust them.

[Botany]

11. It is one thing to be a tough guy and ride in the back of a Toyota pick up w/your RPG & ak 47, ...

.... fighting the Iraqi army that runs from a fight, killing unarmed people, and facing the US Military
who have been given the job to kill you.

[CJCRANE]

12. Bear in mind they were fighting against Assad

originally so they were sort of on our side.

Then the big switcheroo came when they went into Iraq.

[karynnj]

19. the "sort of" is often over emphasized

and comes from the enemy of your enemy is your friend -- a very bogus piece of logic. It ignores that things can be multi dimensional. In this case, there were months when Assad ignored ISIS and they fought mostly the other rebels. At that point, the same "logic" could be used to say they were on Assad's side. Obviously they were not on either "our" side or Assad's.

I agree that this is a tough decision for any country with fighters returning. The problem is that they joined a group after it was clearly designated as a terrorist organization. To return, they should have to stand trial for that and for anything they did in that role. I do get that not letting them return without large consequences gives them no easy way to quit. Not to mention if they were free to rejoin the population in a short time, there would be a risk that many would do so just to then attack at home (UK or US) when allowed to do so.

[jamzrockz]

36. This is actually not true

For someone who has been following the war through videos and articles from both sides on the conflict. The Assad has always fought the strongest terrorist/rebel groups in areas of strategic importance. I have followed the war on liveleak and there is not one week that passed where you did not see video of barrel bomb or air strikes attack on the ISIS terrorists.

The truth is that most of the FSA have jumped ship and joined the ISIS an Al Nusra and SAA have just continued to fight virtually the same people. The only difference is now they are fighting under a different banner

[karynnj]

39. That is true in the very recent past, but it was not true when ISIS first became a threat

on the Turkish border. At that point, most of the battles reported were between rebel groups - with the more violent ones usually winning. While some of the FSA probably did switch to Al Nusra and possibly ISIS, it would be very hard to prove that MOST did.

As to what I wrote not being true, do you really deny that there were battles between FSA and the more militant groups? Were the reports just made up? My point is that there are not just two sides -- rebels vs Assad.

[Diclotican]

13. Turborama

Turborama

I for one do not believe this gentlemen who have been Jihadist in Syria or Iraq should be just given a free pass if they want to leave home - first and foremost they should be" vetted" for potentially crimes they have been into when abroad fighting for the jihadist - and punished to the full extent of the law - and then monitored for many years - and not really trusted for many years to come - mostly because they choose to fight for an foreign enemy - and possible do horrible crimes in the proses.. ISIL or IS as they choose to call them self now - have doing horrible crimes against humanity in both Syria and Iraq - and the ones who want to get home should not be trusted as a full member of the society before they have shown they can be trusted fully...


Another thing - is to deny them aces to UK, or to any of countries they have traveled from - mostly because you will never be really sure they just are a trojan horse when it come to re-integrate into the community - plotting to do heinous crimes in the future... It is a sad fact - some is rather into this things - and would go on to do crimes - if not stooped at the border...

Even Norway have a few who have traveled to Syria and Iraq - to do what they believe to be their duty - defending Islam against the infidels - I'm pretty sure some of them after a while want back home - and I suspect some of them to have doing great crimes against humanity when fighting. I do not believe they should be given freedom if they choose to leave Syria or Iraq - to travel back home - they should be arrested at arrival - and hold for a really strong debrief - where every step they have been taken, from the day they deiced to fight for IS or ISIL back home - to the day they came back - and if they have been doing criminal activity - they should be convicted for their crimes in a Court of law - as ordinary criminals - or put on trial back in Haag if their crimes is worse than the strictest law in Norway is giving... We have life - At least 21 year - with possible "protective custody" in practically the rest of their natural life on the books in Norway - Like Breivik they could be kept in prison for as long as it is seem necessary to do it..

And I do not believe anyone should trust an Jihadist anymore than some nations trusted former member of Waffen SS - who under the war also did horrible crimes against humanity

Diclotican

[MynameisBlarney]

15. Yeah....lol right.

Smells like bullshit to me.

[heaven05]

16. war is hell, huh?

well, beds made RIP. The 'trojan horse' scenario mentioned in a post before mine IS a real possibility, also.

[riversedge]

17. Wonder what the US would do if we had US citizens who

had fought for ISSA--then wanted to come back. Gitmo?? Or process through the courts would be my best guess. Yes, they made their bed but to leave them out there might be more dangerous. At least they can be monitored, processed, or locked up if allowed to re-enter.

[Volaris]

25. ...or process through the courts...

Lol have u been paying attention the last decade or so?
Your first guess was likely more correct...gitmo it would be, there's NO WAY a population informed by Faux nooz would allow them back onto the u s mainland
WOULD NOT HAPPEN.

[BlueCaliDem]

33. "there's NO WAY a population informed by Faux nooz"

Informed?? More like brainwashed because that's what Saudi-owned Faux News Channel and other MSM cable and broadcast channels do - scrub the brains of its viewers in order to control them.

[Historic NY]

42. They been trying to pick them off before they engage....

once they learn of travel. If they use their passports to travel there, travel back can be prevented once the passport is canceled.

[Amonester]

47. One of these naive bloodlusty jerks is detained in an NC jail...

as per a report Rachel Maddow did some days ago.

No new gitmos under Obama, but nobody Reports that... why?

[Exultant Democracy]

63. Emotionally I'm with the rest of you, fuck them. However my brain says

that we would all be better off if they ship these guys back, deprogram them and then keep an eye on them while being as respectful as possible.

I mean we can kill everyone till they are all dead, but it seems like that has been what we have been trying and that it only makes the problem worse.

The other thing I can help but think about is that this is only the start of the blow back. The people we really need to be scared of are due to turn up in about six to eight years from now and the more fuel we toss on the fire now the worse it will be for us later.

[1Greensix]

18. Bring them home.

Bring them home. Lock them up.
No sensible government would allow them to return back home after fighting for ISIS, at least without isolating them for a LONG time in a secure location. I would keep them locked up until ISIS is Gone. They've made choices, and not very good ones. Too bad if they aren't trusted now.

[valerief]

21. So war didn't turn out to be as much fun as they expected? nt

[former9thward]

22. Nope, don't let them back.

They had their little fun participating in their war adventure and now they want to go back to the cushy life of the UK. F them, let them rot there.

[hollowdweller]

61. Really Screw Em

If they don't like it then they need to change it from within. Not come back here.

[blackspade]

23. Radicals having a sad....

How are these folks to be trusted at this point?

A conundrum.

[theHandpuppet]

26. Tough shit

Enjoy your enlistment, fools.

[cosmicone]

28. No way they should be allowed back home

except in body bags.

What kind of a namby-pamby jihad is this where you get to cry and go home to mommy?

[jamzrockz]

37. That or they can surrender

and beg for mercy. They are responsible for a lot of destruction, so maybe they can be put to work for the rest of their life as a way to pay for their crimes.

Anyone stupid enough to fight the Syrian govt and people because they wanted to somehow help muslims deserves the hell they are getting now

[cosmicone]

38. It all comes from this nutty idea of

"My Islam is way more Islamier than your Islam."

[Zambero]

29. Pull their passports

Once affiliated with terrorists, these individuals cannot be trusted and pose a serious security risk. They should not be permitted to repatriate in order to partake in so-called "deradicalization" programs. Given reports of disillusionment from "contrite" pro-jihadists, those considering pulling up stakes and joining forces with ISIS might wish to give it a second thought.

[SummerSnow]

30. Ooh maybe they'll give the name of the terrorist who murdered those journalists.

Then lock them up.

[BlueCaliDem]

35. I'm sorry, but for the safety of other Brits ... leave them where they are.

They made a conscious choice to betray their country of birth - a free society and democracy - and now they should stay where they are. They've made their bed of thorns. Now it's time they lie in it.

As much as I'd like them to return home and go through an extensive deradicalization program and eventually merge back into British free society, they can't be trusted to live among innocent people.

Remember, there was a reason why ISIS recruited members in other countries. There was a goal there, and I'm afraid these 500 guys are being sent on their next mission.

[oldandhappy]

40. they are trained ruthless killers.

I vote to pull the passports of any American who fights for someone other than the U.S. military. These folk worked hard to implement their decision -- not easy to get to Syria or Iraq and then make the contact. U.K. has to decide. Maybe we can rent them rooms in Guantanamo. What ever happens should be very public to help others who are considering going to Syria to rethink their decision. Young people today want to make decisions but do not understand consequences. I do not have a lot of information on this -- and I am having a hugely negative response!!

[jamzrockz]

44. You know lots of Americans

fight for the IDF. I would tweak that a little to the US state department pulling the passports of anyone fighting for a clearly defined terrorist group. Fighting for groups like Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, Boko haram, ISIS etc should result in an instant removal of citizenship. 1st generation Americans should be free to fight for their homeland where some of their families may still be living.

[Kablooie]

43. Anyone who came back would have to be made an example.

They would need to be kept under strict government control, prison probably, for life, no exceptions, no parole.

If they were let out after 20 years, say, they might still be capable of terrorist acts even if they seemed to have changed. There can be no rehabilitation because of terrorist histories of waiting for years or decades as honest citizens then suddenly showing they were secretly terrorists all along.

If they truly had a change of heart, too bad. Once you decide to leave and join terrorists you must be seen as dangerous for the rest of your life.

If there are no laws that would guarantee they could be locked up for life or executed, they should not be allowed back in.

Future wannabes must know that once you leave to become a terrorist there is no going back. You are cementing yourself into being a terrorist for life. Any other leniency would be too dangerous for society.

[SoapBox]

45. Uhhhh, word?

NO!

But we're probably stupid enough to feel sorry for them and bring them to America.

[Nye Bevan]

48. Yeah, Jihad against the Great Satan is all fun and exciting until the novelty wears off.

And it's probably very difficult to get a decent curry in Syria or Iraq.

[Democat]

49. Trojan Horses?

Who wants them back?

[DavidDvorkin]

50. I can't get a good pint here!

I can't even get a bad pint here!

[seveneyes]

51. Where are the poets?

To breach the dawn of the sentimental mercenary

[LiberalLovinLug]

52. My initial reaction is to let them lie with dogs

But on further thought...an excerpt from the article:

Neumann believes that up to 20 per cent of volunteers may be looking for a way to get out. He said that allowing less-hardened jihadists to return home could be a good way to fight back against the IS propaganda war, as returning fighters could be enlisted to tell the other side of the story.

They really need a program using ex-jihadists going pubic to counter the radicalization efforts in the UK

[PersonNumber503602]

55. That would be a major PR blow to the radicals.

[kiranon]

53. There will be no way to separate the good from the bad

so leave them there. ISIL will deal with the 2x turncoats and the ones that live are the spies. Others will not want to follow in their footsteps except for the true believers.

[Psephos]

54. One can argue they already are "home."

Actions have consequences.

[Comrade Grumpy]

56. I think most of these responses are short-sighted. These guys could prove useful.

There is a battle for hearts and minds going on. These guys who have turned from the path of jihad could be a good antidote for pro-ISIS propaganda. Carefully vetted, of course.

[Strelnikov_]

65. Exactly

See my post above.

[flamingdem]

57. Oh mah lord

Jihad Selfies heh, British dry humor is a good match for this topic.

[sadoldgirl]

58. Just looking at the legality

England is not at war and - supposedly - we are not either.

Thus they would come under the law of crimes against humanity. Therefore Den Haag, imho.

[XRubicon]

59. They chose their fates

It's a one way trip.

[christx30]

62. Publish their names online.

Broadcast the address on all cable news in the area, and on social media. Include a "Good Luck, may the odds be ever in your favor!" message with the names. Maybe while fighting capture or execution from their "friends" they will kill a few other Isis members that are more hard core. It's the best of both worlds.

[steelsmith]

67. NO

These folk have made their decision, tell them they can come home and they will be picked up at a location out in the desert. once they are gathered, a nice drone strike would send them on their way to allah.