Judge: No-Fly List Violated Constitutional Rights

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

JUDGE: NO-FLY LIST VIOLATED CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS
By NIGEL DUARA
— Jun. 24, 2014 3:38 PM EDT

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — A federal judge has ruled that the U.S. government violated the rights of 13 people on its no-fly list by depriving them of their constitutional right to travel, and gave them no adequate way to challenge their placement on the list.

It's the nation's first ruling to label the no-fly list redress procedures unconstitutional.

U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown's decision handed down Tuesday says the procedure offered to people to remove themselves from the list fails to give travelers a meaningful mechanism to challenge their placement.

Thirteen people challenged their placement on the list in 2010, including four military veterans.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/judge-no-fly-list-violated-constitutional-rights

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

20. UN human rights

Read article 13 about travel rights.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

[padfun]

2. By the time courts rule on law

the damage has been done. And many pols know this. So they pass something and it becomes law until a few years later, where after tons of court appearances, the law is overturned.

But by then, the damage has been done.

[Warpy]

3. Good, it's about bloody time that some of the worst things arising

from post 9/11 hysteria get eliminated.

The problems with the no fly list were that it didn't distinguish between people with the same name, which happens a lot in a country of 300 million, and that there was no recourse if one's own name turned up on it.

It also didn't stop a single incidence of terrorism, since the first thing a terrorist is going to want over here is a benign new identity.

[blackspade]

4. Wow, how long have these fucking lists been around?

Finally a sane ruling on this issue.

[Dustlawyer]

9. I found out the hard way that I was on it in December 2001!

I have missed countless flights, had an FBI agent assigned to clear me, but could never reach him when I was held up. I have a very common name which was one of the 1st ones on the list b/c a terrorist from South Yeman used my name as an alias once (according to my FBI agent).
Once I checked into an American Airlines flight at Bush Intercontinental and it caused all of their terminals to freeze up until they cleared me. They literally put me in a square of red velvet ropes in the middle of the airport with a cop guarding me for two hours! While standing there I called the FBI who blamed it on the FAA. The FAA blamed it on the FBI. When I 1st reached the FAA the young man I spoke with hollered to his supervisor saying, "we got another one!" When I spoke to the supervisor and told her of my plight she instructed me to get that months issue of the Newyorker magazine which was running a story on this and what it was doing to people with my name.
I finally started flying with only one airline as a frequent flyer and now I only have problems if I use a different airline or fly out of the country. They used to freak out and I have even had guns drawn on me in the past, now it is so common they do not bat an eye but still hold me up.

Yeeee haaaaa!

[Kelvin Mace]

12. Fom now on, all terrorists should call themselves one of the following

John Smith
Doug Jones
David Johnson
Bill Williamson
Mary Brown
Susan Davis

That should make things easier.

[Capt13]

13. Dick Cheney?

[Kelvin Mace]

25. Perfect!!

[Jack Rabbit]

34. Hey, there's a real terrorist by that by that name

[blackspade]

17. That is crazy shit!

[Dustlawyer]

21. They told me the only way to get off the list was to change my name, or wait til they caught him,

or don't fly!

[drm604]

5. It's about time!

Thank you Judge Brown.

[pscot]

6. Most rightful judge

[WinkyDink]

7. It's just an impression, but I'm thinking it's female judges who are upholding our rights moreso

than the male judges.

[dbackjon]

29. That is a very sexist thing to say

There are great female judges, great male judges, and judges of both genders that have no business on the bench.

[WinkyDink]

31. Is it? I don't mean it to be. Maybe I just register the women's names more.

[dbackjon]

32. Could be. But if you look at all rulings, hard to come to that conclusion

Like the female judge that tried to jail the Service man who was IN A SUBMARINE for contempt for not showing up to court.

[WinkyDink]

37. Then again, there's the SCOTUS "Hobby Lobby" ruling.

[dem in texas]

8. Happend to my Grandson

Young white male, all American Anglo name. When he was in graduate school in New York, was on his way to a meeting in California. His shoes set off alarm. Come to find out the machine was set to tight and was setting off a lot of people shoes, but they looked at his backpack, he had a text book written in Russian (he was studying the blueprints in it, he didn't read Russian at all), so they decided he was a threat. He was not allowed to board the plane, missed his meeting. He had trouble getting on flights for about 3 years after that. This is a hard working young man who wanted to drop out of college and join the army after 9-11, all for love of his country.

[90-percent]

10. I flew recently for the first time in a decade.

I was relieved the trip confirmed I was not on a no fly list. The criteria for getting on it are so haphazard, and once on, dealing with it is so kafka-esque. It is something no American citizen should have to contend with.

Thank you for your anecdote about your grandson, dem in texas. Shows just how arbitrary, wide spread and unjust the whole thing has been and I really, really empathize with how your grandson must feel about that ordeal. It also clearly shows just how arbitrary and dumb the criteria to get on the list really is. Boy oh boy, talk about making it up as you go along!

-90% jimmy

[Kelvin Mace]

11. No Shit!

And it only took, what, 13 years to figure that out?

[Buenaventura]

14. For this judge to claim that there is a “constitutional right

to travel” is no blessing! The contention will be laughed out of court. I abhor the no-fly lists and the people on all sides of the political
spectrum who’ve supported them. Nevertheless, the ruling is ludicrous.

[NutmegYankee]

16. Amendment 9

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

[alarimer]

19. It's not ludicrous at all.

There is a right to travel. There are many rights that are not enumerated in the Constitution. As the poster above states clearly.

The no-fly lists also interfere with due process. You can be put on them for the flimsiest of reasons, not be told why and have an impossible time trying to get off it. That is clearly wrong, and I think partly why the judge ruled the way she did.

[7962]

28. You do have a right to move freely. But that doesnt mean you HAVE to be allowed to fly

I see this moving higher. Maybe some restricitions will be added; possibly that US citizens must be notified that they are on it.

[PoliticAverse]

36. This is about whether any 'due process of law' controls the right to fly. n/t

[PoliticAverse]

35. You think there's no implied constitutional right to leave the place you live?... n/t

[WillyT]

15. K & R !!!

[Swede Atlanta]

18. This should have happened when the silly no-fly list was instituted.......

but this will never stand appeals. The Roberts court loves government secrecy. I think Roberts. Alito, Thomas and Scalia envision themselves some kind of James Bond figures.

This ruling will be overturned, probably not by the 9th Circuit in San Francisco but certainly by the Cloak and Dagger Justices on the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court has long recognized that the right to travel is a fundamental right. That's why, for example, if you move from one state to another and you apply for government benefits in your new state they cannot deny you or set any residency requirements. Residency requirements are an impermissible intrusion on the right to travel.

I wish this would lead to a requirement that the government must establish with clear and convincing evidence a need to prevent a passenger from traveling. Further that a person can challenge their placement on this list in court and require that the government establish the reason not that the person has to prove they are no threat.

I realize that 9-11 happened in part because no one was watching who was boarding flights and persons that were known to the U.S. government with ties to some bad characters were not prevented from boarding or at least more carefully screened.

OBL achieved one of his objectives which was to terrorize the American public and change our way of life. He accomplished that thanks to the Bush/Cheney look the other way cabal.

[yurbud]

22. there is a process to challenge it, but you have to give up every possible piece of information

about yourself to ask.

I wanted to see if I was on the watch list since I could never check in online or even at the kiosks at the airport. I had to go to the counter and then the agent had to call her supervisor before she could give me a boarding pass.

[Uncle Joe]

23. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Hissyspit.

[ECHOFIELDS]

24. up is NO, down is YES

Not even death can get you off the list
which may make it difficult for you to
get into Heaven...
but not into Hell.

[EEO]

26. Well, duh.

No points for timeliness.

[marble falls]

27. About time!

[lark]

30. It's been a great day for court sanity.

We need lots more of them to try and turn the tide back.

[valerief]

33. If you're not wealthy enough to own your own jet, it doesn't matter what happens to you.

New World Order rule