President Chávez laments the death of Kim Jong Il

[Bacchus4.0]

http://www.eluniversal.com/nacional-y-politica/111220/president-chavez-laments-the-death-of-kim-jong-il

Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez sent condolences to North Korean authorities expressing the "most sincere sorrow" for the death of North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il, on behalf of "all Venezuelans," after learning about the death of his "comrade."

President Chávez said that he has full confidence that North Koreans will move "toward a prosperous and peaceful future," according to a Venezuelan foreign ministry statement.

In the text, the government expressed its willingness to "keep walking along with sovereign nations for the auto-determination of countries and world peace."

Trade between Caracas and Pyongyang significantly increased when President Chávez took office in 1999, but it has dwindled since 2007, according to data from the National Institute of Statistics (INE).

[teddy51]

1. I guess that was the thing to do by President Chavez, but ugh. I seriously don't

think that Kim Jong-Il will be missed much by North Korean citizens. They might be brain washed enough into thinking that they will miss him.

[Jackpine Radical]

4. No, the people won't miss him.

Any displays of crocodile grief, by people inside or outside NK, will be motivated by strictly political concerns.

The masses will put on a good show of mourning in order to satisfy the watchful eyes of the Secret Police and the military, who remain in control.

Foreigners like Chavez who have a vested interest in maintaining relations with NK will likewise put on their grieving masks, at least until the dust settles enough for them to recalibrate their diplomatic strategies. It's by no means clear yet that "Un's the One" as the ruling classes jostle each other over the power vacuum.

[Igel]

17. To the contrary.

Many will. Maybe most.

Stalin had huge lines of mourners. They cried sincere tears of loss when he died, not because they had a political motivation to do so, not because they were afraid of who'd take over. They were conditioned to trust in him; they believed the propaganda that he was their stalwart, sure defender against hostile forces abroad. They also believed that they were prosperous, better off than those in other countries and better off than they'd have been otherwise, and were grateful for what he'd done and sad that he wouldn't continue to do even more. Yeah, they were partly infantilized, but it's a common enough occurrence. That their great leader had totemic status, so his loss was a loss to the country that went beyond acts and involved symbols was also a large portion of it. Sheer ignorance of many of their "vozhd's" or leader's acts also played a role: If you hear only good things and no bad things, you might assume there were no bad things.


Chavez' calculus is implicit in the communique. What matters is superficial ideology and independence from the great evil one to the--Chavez'--north.

Kim's ideology could be seen as reconciled with Chavez', they had points of similarity. A close (or even less than superficial) analysis would show that there were really big differences. Then you either have to conclude that Chavez wouldn't or couldn't go below a superficial, scant analysis or that there was something more important than actual facts on the ground.

Just as with Ahmedinejad and Assad, opposition to the US covers a multitude of sins. With Chavez it's too consistent to be a one-off kind of lapse. Perhaps this is what made him willing to overlook Kim's lunacy and the gap between what Chavez' and Kim's ideologies. Or perhaps there's less of a gap between Chavez' private ideology and Kim's public one than what Chavez says in public would let us believe.

[al bupp]

21. Not to mention Gaddafi

Many are happy to overlook lunacy and other more serious sins if it coincides w/ other ideological goals. Nice analysis, there, sir.

[RZM]

26. There were a lot of complicated and conflicting emotions surrounding Stalin's death

One problem with gauging the public opinion of authoritarian regimes is that there weren't things like reliable opinion polls etc.. Also, people self-censored in the public sphere.

You're right, there were quite a few people who genuinely mourned Stalin. There were also quite a few who were relieved. Many felt some combination of both sentiments at the same time. The same went for his inner circle - that's notable because had he lived, some of them wouldn't have survived another year. Some of the same people who knew days were numbered still couldn't help but grieve at his passing.

[joshcryer]

27. "Maybe most"? No. Highly doubt that.

Highly.

[UTUSN]

2. Well, of *course* he laments!1 n/t

[Robb]

3. Probably an error in translation.

[Posteritatis]

22. Yeah, I'm sure the Venezuelan government messed up their own announcement

I love how no matter what kind of insane bullshit Chavez says, there's always people lining up to say it's a fake translation.

[Odin2005]

5. The source is RW.

[BeHereNow]

7. But of course.

I knew this story stunk from the moment I first heard it.
BHN

[ChangoLoa]

19. The source is the Venezuelan Foreign Ministry

http://www.mre.gov.ve/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18500:gobierno-bolivariano-expresa-su-sincero-pesar-por-el-fallecimiento-del-lider-kim-jong-il-&catid=3:comunicados&Itemid=108

See post#18 for traslation

[kenfrequed]

6. Frag quoting

Look at the spaces between quotes on the article. This is another friggin hit piece on Chavez. Granted he isn't a great leader, but he was a lot better than the repressive, greedy, rapacious wealthy bastards that came before him.

There isn't a single sentence quoted in its entirety.

[BeHereNow]

8. But it is CONVENIENTLY released in tandem with the story about how Obama criticizes Venezuela...

and its ties to Iran and Cuba
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10145952
Hmmm...
BHN

[kenfrequed]

16. Nothing to see here

Obviously all just a coincidental.

[spanza]

13. Gobierno Bolivariano expresa su sincero pesar por el fallecimiento del líder Kim Jong Il

República Bolivariana de Venezuela

Ministerio del Poder Popular para Relaciones Exteriores

Comunicado

El Presidente de la República Bolivariana de Venezuela, Comandante Hugo Chávez, a nombre del Pueblo y del Gobierno venezolano expresa su más sincero pesar por el fallecimiento del Presidente de la República Popular Democrática de Corea, el Camarada Kim Jong Il, ocurrido este 17 de diciembre de 2011.

El Gobierno Bolivariano manifiesta su profundo sentimiento de solidaridad al Pueblo de la República Popular Democrática de Corea por la pérdida de su Líder, al tiempo de tener plena confianza en la capacidad de los coreanos de conducir su propio futuro hacía la prosperidad y la paz.

El Gobierno de la República Bolivariana de Venezuela reitera su voluntad de continuar caminando, junto con las naciones soberanas, en el sendero de la lucha por la autodeterminación y la paz mundial.

Caracas, 18 de diciembre de 2011

http://www.mre.gov.ve/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18500:gobierno-bolivariano-expresa-su-sincero-pesar-por-el-fallecimiento-del-lider-kim-jong-il-&catid=3:comunicados&Itemid=108

[kenfrequed]

15. Right...

I was stating it was fragmentary quotes not that it was poorly translated. If you don't mind actually posting something translated and with appropriate quotations I would be happy.

Thank you

[ChangoLoa]

18. I'll do it. But it's exactly the same than the article you first read.. the supposed "hit piece"

"The President of the BRV, Commander Hugo Chavez, in the name of the people and the Venezuelan government expresses his most sincere sorrow for the death of the President of the DPRK, the comrade Kim Jong Il... 12-17-2011

The Bolivarian govt expresses its deep feeling of solidarity to the people of the DPRK for the loss of their Leader, while it plainly trusts in the Koreans' capacity for directing themselves toward a prosperous and peaceful future.

The govt of the BRV reiterates its will to keep walking along with sovereign nations for the auto-determination of countries and world peace."


All in all, obviously not a "hit piece" but a simple article reporting an official declaration.

Vous cherchez midi à quatorze heures, as the French say.
http://translate.google.com/

[Bacchus4.0]

20. go to the Prensa Latina site in post #10. you will find similar statements from Nicaragua and Cuba

there is an English section too. if its not up yet, give it a day or two and it likely will be in English. its a Cuban government website so that should alleviate your concerns about a right wing media hit job.

[slackmaster]

9. Birds of a feather

Crackpots and tin-pots alike.

[Bacchus4.0]

10. Prensa Latina notice (Cuban government site) for the doubters

http://www.plenglish.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=461069&Itemid=17

Caracas, 19 dic (PL) El gobierno de Venezuela expresó hoy a través de un comunicado, sus condolencias al pueblo norcoreano por el deceso de su líder, Kim Jong-Il, el sábado pasado víctima de un infarto cardíaco.

En la misiva, emitida por el Ministerio de Relaciones Exteriores, el presidente Hugo Chávez, manifestó su solidaridad con la República Popular Democrática de Corea (Rpdc), así como sus intenciones de continuar, junto a las naciones soberanas del mundo, luchando por a autodeterminación de los pueblos.

También reveló su plena confianza en la capacidad de los coreanos para conducir su propio futuro encaminado hacia la prosperidad y la paz.

[spanza]

12. No, No!!! The Venezuelan newspapers must have hijacked the Cuban govt internet connection

He couldn't have said that... that's for sure.

Just as he didn't say last month that El Assad was a humanist leader and that the supposed protesters in Syria are just a bunch of infiltrated agents.

Concerning Ahmadinejad, he didn't say neither that he was a great revolutionary fighter and a brother, and that the Ayatollah's revolution was a real progressive movement for the people of Iran... while at the same time, the Basidji and the fanatic paramilitaries torture any self-declared communist at Evin and humiliate girls in the streets for not wearing their veil as they should.

All of these allegations are completely false. Even if you see Chavez insisting on the same subjects on Venezuelan State TV... just don't believe them!

[Common Sense Party]

11. I'm more disgusted by Chavez spending a fortune on a diamond-encrusted casket

for Simon Bolivar's old bones.

What a "man of the people".

[snooper2]

14. You know, a couple years ago I was on the fence about Chavez

But more and more he shows he is an egotistical fuck who only cares about power and his tin pot dictator friends...

[Prometheus Bound]

23. I see that South Korea, Japan, the Philippines and China also offered condolences to the NK people.

[unkachuck]

24. good ties....

....with a Communist nuclear power (that has never been invaded by the United States) is helpful if you've been having problems keeping the United States from breathing down your neck and stealing your oil....

....you never know when you might need some Communist nuclear technology....

[Integral]

25. Heh.

The Red Dictators have to stick together. With the loss of his "friends" Gaddafi and hopefully soon-to-be Assad, and now Kim Jong Il, Chavez gets lonelier and lonelier...

/wishes for a Latin American Spring to start in Venezuela