Sisters question fatal shooting in DC police chase
Source: AP-Excite
By LARRY NEUMEISTER
NEW YORK (AP) - The sisters of a woman who was fatally shot in Washington after trying to ram her car through a White House barrier say she was not a criminal and police should not have shot her.
"We're still very confused as a family why she's not still alive," Amy Carey-Jones said late Friday, speaking of her 34-year-old sister, Miriam Carey. "I really feel like it's not justified, not justified."
Another sister, retired New York City police officer Valarie Carey, said there was "no need for a gun to be used when there was no gunfire coming from the vehicle."
The sisters spoke outside Valarie Carey's home in Brooklyn Friday night after traveling to Washington to identify Miriam Carey's body.
FULL story at link.
Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20131005/DA97RVKO0.html
This 2011 photo provided by Dr. Barry Weiss, from the website of Advanced Periodontics in Hamden, Conn., shows former employee Miriam Carey. The 34-year-old Carey was shot to death by police after a car chase that began when she tried to breach a barrier at the White House. (AP Photo/Advanced Periodontics)
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)But when she aimed her speeding car at the White House security barriers, there's little question how this would end. I do not blame the police/secret service for the outcome.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)arm chair logic.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)and they overreacted in stopping her?
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)using her car as a deadly weapon, hence, justifiable force even if deadly to her in stopping her ... regardless of her reasons and why ...
MiniMe
(21,738 posts)For all they knew, she was saving the "gun" for the right moment. I'm sorry it ended the way it did, but I'm glad that nobody else was hurt, including the baby.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)endangering officers and her child.
My main issue with the cops shooting is they could have hit innocent bystanders. OTOH, they didn't know what the woman would do next with her crazy driving or what she might have in the car (guns, bombs, etc). Clearly she was resisting arrest and at that point, police can use force to protect the president, Congress, and buildings.
Imaginativeone
(3 posts)Okay, NOW we know that if you approach the white house barriers in a manner that law enforcement deems "erratic" (in ANY way, apparently), you will be shot dead on sight. A little warning would have been nice. Hell, there are signs for everything else, why not a "you will be killed" sign?
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)She didn't just "approach" the White House barriers. Sheesh, people, she wasn't just a tourist out for a sightseeing stroll.
bigworld
(1,807 posts)Following the White House incident, she raced down Pennsylvania Avenue at 80 mph, ignoring red lights, and they boxed her in near the capitol, surrounding her car, asking her to get out. She didn't, and aggressively backed out of there. She had every chance in the world to stop it right there. Up until that point, no shots were fired at all.
I'm the first to slam police for overreaction,but these guys stayed cool -- they had no idea if they were dealing a suicide bomber, or a dental hygenist who simply flipped out.
It's tragic, but I can't blame the police one bit.
---
Oh, and welcome to DU.
Imaginativeone
(3 posts)"What occurred next was not clear. Ms. Carey managed to get out of the car, and was shot by several officers. According to a law enforcement official, she was not armed, and it was not known whether she presented an immediate danger." - New York Times
When the "weapon" (car to pedestrian) changed, the police had the option to change weapons too.
indepat
(20,899 posts)Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)What everyone clearly sees as erratic. And what do you think the police were trying to do in that video?? They did try to warn her and stop her. A warning sign? Absurd.
dgibby
(9,474 posts)She was NOT shot dead on sight. She was shot dead after attempting to breach the WH outer perimeter, leading the police on a high speed chase in DC traffic, running into a secret service agent, using her car as a weapon, fleeing, and resisting arrest. Of course, if you're following the news or have watched the video, you'd know that.
Ranchemp.
(1,991 posts)It's to be expected that if you try to breach the halls of our govt power, and then attempt to flee, deadly force will be used to stop the threat.
That, in my book, is completely acceptable.
reddread
(6,896 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Because car bombs don't exist.
reddread
(6,896 posts)but when they do occur in WDC, we let the culprits go, dont we?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Bosch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_car_bombings
and of course, we ignited the ongoing Car Bomb Derby in Iraq.
gopiscrap
(23,821 posts)uppityperson
(115,687 posts)wordpix
(18,652 posts)She was also ordered out of the car by policemen who surrounded it, guns drawn. She resisted arrest by driving the car through the officers, endangering them, her child and the public as she drove off at high speed.
She had warning when she went through a barrier and the police surrounded the car with guns drawn and told her to get out. Your little "report" there is baloney and doesn't mesh with facts shown by video.
jessie04
(1,528 posts)In helping her mentally troubled sister?
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)As someone who had a schizophrenic parent and deals with a sibling also afflicted with that illness, I can say that it is much more difficult than people realize to help family members battling severe mental illness, especially when those afflicted are irrational and/or delusional.
That said, I think the sisters may be feeling guilty and are deflecting blame. Sad all around because the true blame here should be assigned to the disease and the shameful manner mental illness is addressed (or should I say, NOT addressed) in this country.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)issues in my extended family, those closest to the mentally ill can easily and quickly be worn down coping and dealing with their mentally ill loved ones.....
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Not only does mental illness carry a stigma left over from the days when the mentally ill were considered "possessed", those who grow up in homes with a severely mentally ill parent or child can be left with what I can only describe as PTSD.
I hope this woman's sisters won't hesitate to seeking some counseling.
jessie04
(1,528 posts)thank you for setting me straight.
the true blame is he disease.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)We have a society in which folks are left ill-equipped to deal with such illness in a family, much less assist the afflicted person. We all want to blame someone when something like this happens but in reality no person is to blame, but a disease of the mind. Now the sisters themselves want to blame someone, probably because they feel guilty or are meant to feel guilty for their loved one's disease.
If you've ever tried the rational approach with an irrational person, you'd soon come to realize how you are caught in a Catch-22. When you're dealing with a severe mental illness of a loved one, you can feel utterly frustrated and fatigued by the struggle but you're not supposed to feel that way - or even angry - because you do know it's a disease and there IS no one to blame. A lot of folks in this situation either shut down emotionally or live in denial. It's a tough row to hoe, and perhaps the sisters don't really know how they are supposed to react right now. I hope they seek some counseling.
reddread
(6,896 posts)earlier this year I had the misfortune of being home when a young (21?) neighbor recruited the local police department's assistance.
As he brandished a shotgun and threatened himself and/or responding police with it (while oblivious power walkers went by unscathed..) They determined the best way to end this attempted suicide by cops was to shoot him about 21 times.
I have never in my life heard such loud gunfire. Of course, were it a man-eating lion on the loose, a tranquilizer dart would have been deployed, presumably. My neighbor, an ex-cop from neighboring county town felt it was completely unjustified.
At least this way, the next desperately despondent individual will know exactly what to do,
call the Fresno Police Department's suicide help line.
treestar
(82,383 posts)to stop an out of control car before it kills someone else.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)And as you will note in my other posts regarding this topic, I do not place the responsibility or blame for this tragedy on the police.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)who rented a room from me in my home. I didn't know about her mental illness when I agreed to this. It was a very trying situation and she told me about the many times she had sought help and "didn't get it." She was also on meds. If the brain is not rational, it seems that no amount of counseling or medications can help. I spent hours talking to her when she was going on her irrational rants and I could calm her down and make her see the reality most of the time but not all the time.
treestar
(82,383 posts)too easy for them to just blame the police officers.
Snake Plissken
(4,103 posts)The way she was acting they couldn't take the chance that she was some Timothy McVeigh anti-government freak with a trunk load of explosives. She could have easily got her daughter killed along with her.
reddread
(6,896 posts)chelsea0011
(10,115 posts)bucolic_frolic
(44,162 posts)gets officers' adrenaline flowing
I can't imagine going 80mph down the Washington Mall
That alone is dangerous, though she must have navigated well
was she driving that fast, or just the pursuit vehicles?
No other traffic?
If she was shot outside her car in plain view I think it was unnecessary
Backing up over the officer is not a way to expect a mild
response from police
No devices to point at a vehicle and stall it? With the amounts they
spend on security in this country, that might seem de rigeur at the
White House gates
Imaginativeone
(3 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)No one is stopping you
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Civilian Intelligence Agency! Truthy to, power?
I love the ad in the middle of the page for some putz pimping his "book" ROFL-
Obama's Hidden Agenda, MORE THAN JUST YOUR GUNS!
Oh noes, he's going to take my gun and my ice cream! LOL
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)It's their sister, they love her, they are grieving.
bottomofthehill
(8,427 posts)It is a sad and tragic story. The sisters should second guess the police, they lost their sister. We should all look at what happened and come to our own realizations. The police, the public many who were there were scared, terrified. Did the police do the right thing, there was loss of life, but only one life. The life that was causing the terror. It is sad and tragic, but the police were in a difficult situation trying to minimize any loss of life
Democat
(11,617 posts)Because they stopped her from killing anyone, more people are angry that the police shot her.
It was a no win situation.
randr
(12,421 posts)and are losing their true mission-to serve and protect. How grown men seem incapable to handle so many of the situations we see them in where they go ballistic is beyond me.
reddread
(6,896 posts)when you have death squads.
EX500rider
(10,955 posts).....instead of some rent-a-cops or Barney Fife.
randr
(12,421 posts)respond accordingly.
EX500rider
(10,955 posts)randr
(12,421 posts)of the young woman before I decide.
DinahMoeHum
(21,938 posts). . .unless they were warned beforehand about a specific suspect, they have no way of knowing whether the driver is a terrorist, or mentally ill, or under the influence, or suffered a heart attack or a diabetic seizure, or even what sex.
They are trained to react to the action and the behavior taking place. Nothing else.
Circumstances are known AFTER the incident. Until that is known, it is wiser to reserve judgement.
sofa king
(10,857 posts)There were three huge mistakes in that incident. Bereaved family members can say what they want, but that person used her car as a weapon, one which should have been treated as a far, far deadlier weapon than a mere pistol.
The first mistake was that White House security should have assumed that the car held explosives and that the breach was an attempt to get within detonation distance--that is why the anti-vehicle gates exist in the first place. From that assumption, if follows that no matter what, the weapon (the car) must not be allowed to get away to be used against an easier target--which, by accident, is exactly what the driver did, driving past dozens of softer but highly important potential bombing targets and actually making it onto Capitol Hill. I hate to say it, but White House security should have stopped her right there and then, by killing her if necessary.
The possibility that they held fire because they saw an infant in the car is a closely related second mistake, because now every car-bombing asshole in the world has seen how using a baby as a prop can give someone a second chance. So there's that.
But the third mistake was by far the worst of all. The anti-vehicle barriers on Constitution allowed the suspect to pass and spectacularly blocked her pursuers, destroying a police car in the process.
.
The goddamned anti-vehicle system aided the perpetrator, which is simply unforgivable under any circumstances, even very, very lucky circumstances such as these. That should be recognized as a career-ending, contract-ripping, expect-a-refund-for-the-millions-you-blew-on-that-piece-of-shit sort of mistake. But instead I'm sure the defense contractor that built it will get even more money to "improve" it from its worse-than-useless current state.
hamsterjill
(15,246 posts)While I did not know Miriam Carey personally, I will give credence to the accounts of those who did know her and have explained that she had some mental issues. That said, I don't believe she knew what she was doing on that fateful day. I do not hold her responsible for her actions because of her illness.
HOWEVER, the police officers who were actively responding at the moment did not have the ability to know that about Ms. Carey. Her actions created an environment where they reacted, and they reacted accordingly.
Sometimes, there are simply tragedies without any real explanations and where there is no one, really, to be blamed. This is one of those instances in my opinion. A sad and terrible situation, and I'm betting one that the officers who fired the shots will have difficulty in living with for the rest of their lives. But they did what they had to do with the knowledge that they had available to them at the time.