NSA loophole allows warrantless search for US citizens' emails and phone calls

[villager]

Source: Guardian

The National Security Agency has a secret backdoor into its vast databases under a legal authority enabling it to search for US citizens' email and phone calls without a warrant, according to a top-secret document passed to the Guardian by Edward Snowden.

The previously undisclosed rule change allows NSA operatives to hunt for individual Americans' communications using their name or other identifying information. Senator Ron Wyden told the Guardian the NSA's authorities provide loopholes that allow "warrantless searches for the phone calls or emails of law-abiding Americans".

The authority, approved in 2011, appears to contrast with repeated assurances from Barack Obama and senior intelligence officials to both Congress and the American public that the privacy of US citizens is protected from the NSA's dragnet surveillance programs.

The intelligence data is being gathered under Section 702 of the of the Fisa Amendments Act (FAA), which gives the NSA authority to target without warrant the communications of foreign targets, who must be non-US citizens and outside the US at the point of collection.

The communications of Americans in direct contact with foreign targets can also be collected without a warrant, and the intelligence agencies acknowledge that purely domestic communications can also be inadvertently swept into its databases. That process is known as "incidental collection" in surveillance parlance...

<snip>

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/09/nsa-loophole-warrantless-searches-email-calls

[hlthe2b]

1. My anger increases... I can't wait for the administration apologentia to start their infinite

denials and obfuscations.

[Cryptoad]

2. seems

like more speculation and conjecture,,,,,,, seems Snowden is like Issa ,,, he has no evidence!

[villager]

3. You forgot the sarcasm tag on your post!

But your satirical reply in the style of the apologentia is absolutely accurate!

[Le Taz Hot]

37. Amazing all these "newbies"

who seem to ALL be part of the apologencia. Ain't that a coinkidink? I can't put them on Ignore fast enough.

[villager]

39. Exactly so, Le Taz. All spouting the same absolute, self-convinced tones

...lecturing down to anyone who dares disagree (newbies, other posters coming out of the woodwork for the occasion, etc.!)

Check out similar posts in the same vein "downthread!"

[Cryptoad]

40. kinda hard

to make your argument that since a person has not spent most their lives posting on DU , they have nothing to say , heh? But keep beating that drum...!

[Maedhros]

8. And what about Ron Wyden?

Senator Ron Wyden told the Guardian the NSA's authorities provide loopholes that allow "warrantless searches for the phone calls or emails of law-abiding Americans".

Why would he lie?

[Cryptoad]

23. But to date ,,,,

he has presented any evidence of any illegal act. Tea Party would be Proud!

[Maedhros]

26. Wyden is now the Tea Party?

Welcome to the ignore file!

[Th1onein]

14. Welcome to DU!

And enjoy your stay on my Ignore list!

[Cryptoad]

24. When you can't

argue the Truth,,,, you can always ignore it! another Tea Party edict!

[JoeyT]

31. Which would be a useful observation

had you actually told any truth. You compared Wyden to the Tea Party, a patently moronic statement if ever there was one.

The only Tea Party edict I've seen so far in this thread is "Say something profoundly stupid and pretend to be vindicated when people call you on it.", and it wasn't Wyden that did it.

Edited to add: And further adding to the silliness, you didn't really even make any claims that could be argued. Other than demanding evidence, and at this stage demands for evidence are pretty much ranking up there with Climate Change denial: It doesn't matter how much is presented, it's never going to be enough because the people doing the asking are being intellectually dishonest. A tactic delightfully referred to as JAQing (Just Asking Questions) off. It's not an attempt to question or disprove a theory, or a demand to evaluate evidence. It's a derailing tactic, nothing more.

[Cryptoad]

41. Reading is a critical skill....

I compared you to the Tea Party not Wyden.

btw that is another Tea Party trait, lack of Reading skills

[Ash_F]

43. What about proper punctuation? /nt

[Cryptoad]

48. When I wrote my first,,,,,,

dissertation , i worried about such things! But if there is something you are unable to understand in my post I will gladly clarify!

[JoeyT]

49. As is writing.

In response to "Senator Ron Wyden told the Guardian the NSA's authorities provide loopholes that allow "warrantless searches for the phone calls or emails of law-abiding Americans". "

You wrote:
"But to date ,,,,

he has presented any evidence of any illegal act. Tea Party would be Proud!"

So either your writing ability is so awful you can't write coherently, or you can't remember what you wrote yesterday. My reading is fine. Your writing is so incoherent not even you can tell who it's directed at.

[Ash_F]

36. What is the deal with your commas?

Why are the crazy ones always so crazy?

[Cryptoad]

42. What is it

that you dont understand about my post?,,,,,,,,,

[uhnope]

16. It's another alarmist rehash of the Guardian's old deceptions and sloppy wordings

This says that if a US citizen is in contact with someone in another country who is being investigated, then those "communications" or "database" might be saved. It is unclear throughout whether this is the metadata, like just the list of numbers called or email addresses, or not.

But this is the first evidence that the NSA has permission to search those databases for specific US individuals' communications.

But no word whether it contradicts this from a hearing back in June from the same article:

"But if we do acquire any information that relates to a US person, under limited criteria only can we keep it."

Looks like the Guardian is milking this to sell papers.

[lark]

18. Obfuscate, distort and regurgitate

Rinse and repeat

[Cryptoad]

25. I am starting to beleive

that Snowden is no more than a Tea Party Plant !

[Maedhros]

27. Looks like uhnope is a MIC toady.

Off to the ignore list for you!

[uhnope]

30. MIC? what conspiracy theory is that?

I need to update my CT scorecard

[Cryptoad]

44. another tea Party trait

if you dont like the Truth, ignore it!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

21. YOu are talking about Congress which passes laws

[hlthe2b]

22. Seems like a total nonsequitor response...

[leveymg]

4. NSA relies upon conflicting lower court decisions re: "stored email" and driftnet warrants for phone

Last edited Fri Aug 9, 2013, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

content collection. This is accurate (and it's technically legal), in contrary to the claims that have been made to the general public that there's "no spying on Americans," most recently by Obama to Leno the other night.

[snappyturtle]

5. Fear not....according to Feinstein:

Dianne Feinstein, the California Democrat who chairs the Senate intelligence committee, said in June 2012 that she believed the intelligence agencies and the Justice Department were sufficiently mindful of Americans' privacy.

---------------

I wonder if DF lies awake at night composing strings of meaningless answers or if they
just come naturally? I bet the Justice Dept. and intelligence agencies are 'mindful' of
our privacy....they just figured we weren't.

[villager]

6. "Sufficiently mindful!" Expect the apologist brigade here to start adopting that phrase

"You've never really supported Democrats! Or else you'd know they are sufficiently mindful of privacy, Constitutional rights, and all that other Firebagger stuff!"

[snappyturtle]

7. Those words "sufficiently mindful" say and don't say a lot! Brilliant.

Yes, it will be used....even when sufficiently mindful of privacy means with
the intention of violating the 4th Amendment...just doesn't seem so nefarious
that way.

[lark]

19. Her husband's probably getting a piece of the pie.

She usually shills for companies from which we earns mega-bucks.

[frylock]

29. well shit, if you can't trust DiNo's impeccable judgement.....

[Le Taz Hot]

38. Nah, she's gotten disgustingly rich

off of these wars that SHE voted for, I'm sure she has her servants do it. "Oh, piss boy!"

[ConcernedCanuk]

9. "National Security Agency has a secret backdoor into its vast databases"

.
.
.

well - I'm surprised as hell!

NOT !!

CC

[NoMoreWarNow]

10. of course they do...

[NoMoreWarNow]

11. And not only the DEA but the IRS is getting in on the act

this is ridiculous--
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/08/08-0

[KoKo]

12. Well..President Obama's Press Conference at 3:00 p.m. today...

should be interesting.

[Rex]

13. Yep, ain't illegal if you have permission by the company.

A legal loophole indeed.

[Qutzupalotl]

15. Note that this does not say ALL Americans.

You have to communicate with an overseas target of an investigation.

Wyden is right to call for reform of the loophole:
"I believe that Congress should reform Section 702 to provide better protections for Americans' privacy, and that this could be done without losing the value that this collection provides," he said.

In other words, Wyden sees the value of the collection, but is pushing for reform of the loophole to protect privacy of any (again, not "all&quot Americans inadvertently swept up in this.

On edit: It is still illegal for an American to be THE target of this kind of investigation.

[Maedhros]

28. According to leaked NSA documents

the collection of data is performed on the target of the investigation, and anyone with which the target communicates, and anyone with which those persons communicate.

So yes, data on ordinary Americans is being collected when they are not the target of the investigation.

[Dustlawyer]

17. I am against the meta data collection. It violates my rights just by being collected.

I acknowledge that they will never give it up. We will get a bunch of talk about how they have our privacy as their utmost concern as they monitor us to stop protest before they can get organized.

[PSPS]

20. LOL. Yeah, a "loophole" and "under a legal authority" and "assurances from Barack Obama." Yeah. OK.

[Turbineguy]

32. So whenever there is new information that calls Greewald and Snowden into question...

we get the "wait, but there's more!" routine.

[Igel]

33. The blurb is misrepresented.

It *may* say that while the information of certain US citizens ("Americans&quot is allowed to be used under the minimization procedures but nobody's allowed to do so until the proper oversight's established.

It may *also* simply say that while the information of certain legal US residents who are foreign citizens is allowed to be used under the minimization procedures ....

"US persons" =/= "US citizens."

The article writer has no idea what that nice adjective "certain" means but extends "US persons" to include any American citizen. That's either sloppy and shows disregard for understanding before venting or it constitutes demagoguery. If you don't understand what you're reading, you have no business telling people what it invariably must mean in order to outrage them.

My respect for the Guardian has taken a bit of a downturn. Shoddy reporting.

[villager]

35. "If you don't understand what you're reading, you have no business telling people what it invariably

...must mean."

Indeed.

[blkmusclmachine]

34. We really CAN hear you now!!!

[ronnie624]

45. Our political leaders have this power over us,

but they won't use it because they are all upstanding people, with an over-riding respect for our constitution and the spirit of democracy.

Besides, if you're not a terrorist, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

[villager]

46. When it's *your* party in the White House, you'll shut up and like it!

[ronnie624]

47. Exactly.

But I may or may not like it when the government is completely dominated by Republicans at some point in the future. It just depends on the direction of the political winds at that time, or whatever event is being actively thrust upon my consciousness by the media establishment. We'll see.