Judge considers lesser charges for Zimmerman

[hack89]

Source: USA Today

SANFORD, Fla. — State prosecutors are asking the judge in the Trayvon Martin murder case to instruct the jury to consider lesser charges — manslaughter and aggravated assault — when they begin deliberations Friday.

Zimmerman's attorneys have objected, and Judge Debra Nelson will hold a hearing Thursday morning to decide whether jurors should consider the new charges. The jury would still have the option of convicting Zimmerman, 29, of the second-degree murder charge that prosecutors sought when the trial began.

The last-minute maneuvering has been seen by some legal experts as an indication that prosecutors are not as confident about their chances for a second-degree murder conviction. Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, has been portrayed by prosecutors as a wanna-be cop who shot Trayvon, who is black, after a confrontation in a gated residential community.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/10/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-trial-animation/2504917/

[COLGATE4]

1. Not necessarily an indication that prosecution

is not confident about their case, it's just good lawyering. They're making sure that if Murder 2 doesn't fly the can still put Z away on a lesser included charge.

[HockeyMom]

4. I think the prosecution planned on this

all along. It is very common.

[Little Star]

11. Yep

[brush]

16. Agreed

Seems to me this was the plan all along.

Who are these legal experts anyway who can seem to think an inch below the surface?

[kdmorris]

18. Seems to be fairly common here (Palm Beach County, FL)

Every time I've been to jury duty, they include lesser charges. One case (I wasn't picked as a juror, but followed the case after I was dismissed) - the man was charged with 1st degree murder in the stabbing death of his ex-wife. The prosecution intended to seek the death penalty if convicted of 1st degree murder, but included 2nd degree murder in the potential charges (the maximum sentence for 2nd Degree Murder is life in prison). It appeared that the prosecution could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the man went to his ex-wife's house with the intent to murder her...so the jury returned a guilty charge on 2nd Degree Murder and he was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison.

I'm not sure if the counties have different sentencing guidelines or if it's state-wide. I'm in Palm Beach County, FL, which isn't the same county Trayvon Martin was killed in, so I do not know how common it is in that county.

[wordpix]

22. let's hope Mr. Stabbed-His-Wife is not let out before 25 yrs.

This guy should not be out in general population dating and marrying women. I don't care what his motivation was to go to his ex-wife's house, he was obviously out of control when he got there and should be segregated from women until he's very old.

[kdmorris]

23. I don't think he'll be eligible for parole.

While it wasn't pre-meditated, it was pretty horrific (so glad I didn't have to look at the crime scene photos as a juror!!). He was 38 and his ex-wife was 24. They had a boy and a girl, aged 5 and 3. He stabbed her 28 times. Luckily, the children didn't see it happen, but were in the house at the time, just not in the same room. (so, he was obviously enraged and out of control). I agree that he should never be around women (or his children) again. The ex-wife's family got sole custody of the two children, so hopefully they can all find a way to heal from this.

I can't see a parole board ever agreeing to let him out. But humans have disappointed me before.

[Voice for Peace]

27. are you familiar with the 10-20-LIFE law in Florida?

it has to do with mandatory sentences for a
felony involving the use of a gun. Carries
mandatory minimum of 25 years
to life if a person is shot, even if
they don't die, in the commission of a felony.

So if he's found guilty of manslaughter I think
he will get min. 25 years. And this judge has a
reputation for tough sentencing.

Yesterday when they were discussing the
charges, the judge told West that the
10-20-LIFE law DOES apply to the
charges. West seemed not to know this
and was stunned, it seemed.

This was another moment when apparently
West hadn't been doing his homework very
well... or he might have urged his client to
make a deal for a light sentence, maybe plead
involuntary manslaughter. Unless acquitted
on self defense, Zimmerman will go to jail for
a long time.

Anyone, feel free to correct me if this isn't
accurate.

[dusty trails]

2. Has there been a civil suit yet against Zimmerman?

Or does that happen after the criminal case? I'm thinking of the OJ Simpson case where he walked on the murder charge but was found guilty in a civil case and had to pay financially.

[Lurks Often]

5. There is a Florida law that prevents civil suits

if the person is found not guilty by reason of self defense. There is some dispute as to whether it would apply

[rtracey]

7. even if

Even if there was intent? I am not a follower on either side of this case, but wasn't Zimmerman instructed to stay in his car by 911 operator and police, and did he disregard those direct orders?

[Lurks Often]

10. He was not ordered to stay in the car

Per the dispatcher's own testimony, they are not allowed and do not have the authority to tell people what to do. Also Zimmerman was already out of the car when the dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that".

[Morganfleeman]

14. Non-emergency personnel

Are not sworn law enforcement officers. It's tenuous at best to say ignoring their orders was culpable criminal negligence as there is no law that prohibits it.

[dusty trails]

3. I wonder

How would Zimmerman do in prison where many of the inmates are black? Might there be some retribution against him for killing Martin?

[Lurks Often]

6. The Hispanic prison members would probably protect him. n/t

[atreides1]

8. Not so sure

His own defense team has gone out of its way to show that Zimmerman is weak and unable to defend himself...if Hispanic prison members even accept him, it won't be as an equal.

He'll end up being traded for contraband...

[Lurks Often]

13. Never said Zimmerman was going to be in any position

of authority in the prison/gang hierarchy, merely that the other Hispanic prisoners will protect him, if just to piss off the black inmates.

[brush]

17. he won't survive a year in general population

Rapists, child molesters and child killers don't do well. He'll have to be held away from the rest of the inmates.

And many times they still figure a way to get to them, like they did Jeffrey Dahmer.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. He would go into PC. (AKA: Protective Custody AKA: Punk City)

[Mr. David]

9. Jury is going to find Zimmerman very guilty

and will spend the rest of his life in prison.

[Little Star]

12. From your lips.... n/t

[calimary]

25. Truly.

+ 1,000,000!

[Myrina]

15. Hung Jury?

There have been so many mis-steps and WTF's in this spectacle that a hung jury wouldn't surprise me.
So then what happens?

[Mike Daniels]

19. If the judge allows the lesser charges to be considered and the jury still ends up hung

I imagine that the state will drop it and won't go for retrial. Not sure you're going to find anyone else still unfamiliar enough with the case to get an acceptable jury pool that could possibly find Zimmerman guilty on any charge at that point.

[Nye Bevan]

21. My guess would be a plea-bargain (nt)

[Lee-Lee]

24. If I was betting

I am saying probably hung jury with one or two hold outs convinced it was self defense.

[elleng]

26. First, these are not 'new charges,'

they are 'lesser included offenses' in the second degree murder charges made against Zimmerman. Lesser included offenses are typically among the options provided to jurors with the instructions provided to them by trial judges.

EVERY trial judge presents Instructions to the jury before they retire to deliberate, and these instructions are ALWAYS discussed among counsel for both/all parties and the judge. Instructions conferences are often difficult and contentious, and are always important.