Conservatives plan to bring back mandatory national service

[brooklynite]

Source: BBC

The Conservative Party has said it would bring back mandatory national service if it wins the general election.

It said 18-year-olds would have a choice of either joining the military full-time, or volunteering one weekend every month carrying out a community service.

The party is proposing a Royal Commission to consider the details but would plan for the first teenagers to take part in September 2025.

The cost is expected to be around £2.5bn per year.

Read more: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpddxy9r4mdo

[mwooldri]

1. Well that's one way to attract the youth vote...

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. I suppose it depends on how much solidarity there is from the older siblings

Those who'll be forced to volunteer can't vote yet.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. I doubt it will work out well.

It's like they forgot the lessons of Vietnam.

[tirebiter]

21. Fotced to volunteer?

That is a contradiction.

[E. Normus]

27. Well, the post clearly says

mandatory national service. I, for one believe there is some merit to this and many countries do it effectively in a way that can benefit their nation and those who serve it. Of course the devil is in the details. So, if Repubs alone craft this policy it will be rubbish.

[RandomNumbers]

35. I totally agree. "National Service" can be a good idea if done well.

But we can't trust conservatives to do it well.

The OP is about the Brits. But here in the U.S., we've had an economic draft ever since the military draft officially ended.

[usaf-vet]

41. I was elected to our local school board in the late 1990's. I tried to get Community Service program for a High School..

.... graduation requirement.

At that time, my son was applying to colleges that, during the process, made it clear that Community Services could be a tiebreaker for those applicants who had Community Service experience compared to applicants who didn't.

My suggestion didn't get far; there was immediate pushback, mostly from parents who complained it would cut into sports teams' practice time.

Sports can indeed have its rewards, but for most students, organized teams after high school are not the ticket to success. In the area where we live, some kids made it to college sports; some even got scholarships to play, but that was rare.

To my knowledge, only one student from this region with twelve high schools within 100 miles made it to a pro football team.

Far more students who excelled in life sports, tennis, swimming, golf, and skiing (downhill and cross-country) made college teams, and as the title suggests, they are still participating years later.

Sadly, our public schools are still not ready to invest in those sports as long as they have a football and basketball team.

Rarely do life sports get funding for equipment. Parents have to pay for equipment (including safety equipment) for their kids to participate.

Not much has changed in the last 30 years since our kids were in high school.

[littlemissmartypants]

45. The OP failed to include the fact that this is in the UK not the USA.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said he believed bringing back compulsory service across the UK would help foster the "national spirit" that emerged during the pandemic.

Click bait on DU.

[Celerity]

47. it is obviously about the UK

The Conservative Party

The party is proposing a Royal Commission

The cost is expected to be around £2.5bn per year.

[Igel]

53. I thought it was obvious when I read the snip in the OP.

But looking downstream, I have to accept that many people don't bother to read even those few words.

Longer than the usual text limit = a long, long novel.

[Celerity]

55. it is frustrating

Longer than the usual text limit = a long, long novel.

[littlemissmartypants]

54. I'm not going to untrash the thread but thanks for the clarification. ❤️

[Shipwack]

48. We had a name for this in the military...

"Volun-told"

As in, "I was going to take Friday off, but the chief voluntold me to help with painting the elementary school classrooms".

[PatSeg]

6. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing

Conservatives sure know how to come up with some winning policies!

[sheshe2]

18. IKR?!

First they are proposing women to become brood mares and now want to draft 18 year olds.

What’s next euthanize the elderly?

[walkingman]

28. I resemble that....don't give them any ideas.

[PatSeg]

29. Yes, be sure to repel every possible demographic

Well, except for middle age, affluent white guys I guess.

[Trueblue1968]

44. Head of the repukes didnt serve in the military. Mr Bone Spur lied about an injury

Donnie is a liar... He has NO bone spur.

Hypocrisy, they name is Repuke Party. Party of evil.

[jimfields33]

52. Good thing this is Britain

[Tennessee Hillbilly]

2. The tories already have only a small chance ...

to win the next election. And this could blow that.

[peppertree]

34. Oh, well. At least Rishi has his wife's money laundering to keep him in curry.

These news makes one suspect he might actually prefer retirement.

[progree]

4. This can't be! I thought conservatives were against big government? /nt

[reACTIONary]

7. I think these are British conservatives...

... I think they think it's their big government.

[SorellaLaBefana]

5. National Service (the Draft) Now That's a Vote Winner! PM Hacker wanted the same. Sir Humphrey thwarted him-

-and, in the process, demonstrated to Bernard just how polls can be designed and conducted to yield precisely the answer wished for.

Was just thinking of this the other day

[markodochartaigh]

10. "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister"

are incredible. And much of the principles are as relevant today as they were then.

&pp=ygUdc2lyIGh1bXBocmV5IDQgc3RhZ2Ugc3RyYXRlZ3k%3D

[ZonkerHarris]

39. Two of the best shows ever

[cstanleytech]

8. Seems reasonable since it does have options other than military service .

[Emrys]

17. It's deeply stupid, and a desperate attempt at pandering from a political incompetent

It's slated to cost billions to set up, and the money for it would be taken from funds allocated to make up for the regional aid areas no longer get from the EU.

The military aren't keen on the idea because they don't want unwilling recruits and they don't have the personnel to nanny a bunch of tyros for a year, let alone the money to equip them and the barracks to accommodate them.

The "other options" mentioned are the police, fire and health services, and the intention would be to have recruits serve for one weekend in four for a year.

All those services have severe funding and staffing level problems.

How are those part-time youngsters going to be able to help the police? The police I've known have moaned enough about having to deal with existing special constables who volunteer their "help", enjoy dressing up in the uniform and being driven around in police cars, but are generally a pain to deal with, take officers away from normal duties and can't fulfil any meaningful roles.

Likewise the fire service - what roles can raw part-time recruits play in a very dangerous occupation that requires long and intensive training?

As for the health service, what on earth can they envisage those recruits being able to contribute to a system that's already chronically underfunded and barely functioning under the Tories? They can hardly be let loose on patients.

There's also the red tape of background checks that would need to be carried out on anyone directly involved with the public, among a vast number of other complications. All the recruits would need to be supervised and trained and equipped, and in return would be able to offer little benefit to the services, more likely being an additional burden.

[cstanleytech]

19. Those are all very valid concerns and before I would prove other of course I'd want to see concrete plans.

That means showing how's it is going to be funded and run but there's off another option which is pushing back the mandatory to say it has to be done by a certain age not just mandatory you have to do it at this specific age.

[Emrys]

25. In the UK, many 18-year-olds are leaving secondary school

(roughly equivalent to high school in the US). Some may have left earlier to either take up jobs at 16 or pursue some sort of vocational training. Either of those can prove hard to pursue at either age for some as youth unemployment sits at around 13%. Part of that is due to cutbacks in public sector funding - the very areas Sunak says he wants to target with his scheme.

On leaving secondary school at 18, young people's families start to lose access to benefits payable for those with younger children, which can place strains on family relationships. Many will want to take up tertiary education. Given the requirement for a not insignificant commitment of time that would be required, it's another pressure for them to face at a critical point in their development and education, and will have opportunity costs - what employer is going to take on a young person if they know they're not going to be available for one weekend in four or 25 days a year as proposed? The scheme would be no replacement for investment in proper training and jobs, preferably waged at a decent level, which would be a much better way to engage younger people in society and help them get set up for life. And this is a generation that's already been disadvantaged by the lockdowns during the COVID crisis at a formative stage in their lives.

It's an attempt to drum up a wedge issue, with young people as a target this time as other wedge issues the Tories traditionally use (e.g., against immigration of various sorts, against the EU) no longer seem to get enough traction.

Anyway, support for this idea (it's resurfaced a few times over the years, David Cameron ran on it in the 2010 general election, that didn't do him much good, and it never came to fruition) has always been stronger among the older demographic, who are obviously not going to affected by it. The timing of it is ironic as there were fears that younger turnout in the election would be affected by young people being away from home or so disillusioned that they might not bother to vote. This might solve that problem at a stroke.

Unless Labour do another U-turn, it's just not going to happen, it's just something Sunak would rather people talk about than how useless the Tories have been in government and how ridiculously bad their election campaign has been so far.

[cstanleytech]

32. You're raising some valid issues and problems with the idea that had not occured to me, thank you :-)

[Emrys]

33. No worries.

I just heard an SNP spokesperson on Radio 4 news making much the same points: it's a gimmick, and one root of many problems is the Tories' lack of investment in public services, and the job opportunities that would bring.

[tornado34jh]

9. If I understand UK politics correctly, and I don't know nearly as much

I know there are several parties, including Tories, UKIP, Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrats, and Independent. But many of them have changed names over the years. I know that at least 66 countries require mandatory military service, including the Netherlands, Ukraine, Russia, Israel, South Korea, Austria, and many others so it's not really a new thing. But again, it depends on how the people in the UK see it and how well funded it is. The UK is very different, so I don't know if they will like it.

[speak easy]

13. UK voters will see it as a last gasp stunt of a doomed government.

[NanaCat]

20. South Korea's at least requires all males to serve

Before they turn 30. Doesn't matter how rich or famous you are. The only exception is a serious medical condition. And even that has to be one that can make you drop dead at any second. That is not a joke.



That guy is Kyuhyun, lead singer of the boy band Super Junior. In 2014, he was in a near-fatal car accident that shattered his hip, broke several ribs and caused his lungs to collapse. Doctors gave him only a 20% chance of surviving. It took him nearly a year to recuperate and go back to performing.

Despite those injuries, he still had to serve. He did 'light duty,' but, still, he had to serve despite his former injuries.

This is his bandmate, Siwon, who also had to serve:



Siwon's family is one of the wealthiest in Korea, and he's their sole heir. There was no buying his way out. He had to serve, same as anyone else.

If everyone had to serve, save for the rare exceptions of adverse health conditions, then maybe people wouldn't resist the idea of national service. There's a case for selling it as everyone pitching in and doing their share for the greater good; that's how Korea presents it, but East Asian societies in general are far more receptive to the idea than other places.

The West in general isn't open to that kind of selfless thinking. The US especially will never accept national service after the favoritism shown to the well-to-do for mandatory service in Vietnam. The anger and resentment of that epic fail has never died down to any significant degree. Probably never will.

[LisaM]

24. They make a few exceptions in Korea.

They exempted a soccer player (Son, who plays for Tottenham in the EPL) after Korea won the Asian Cup a few years ago. I think the reason was that they deemed.that to be of service to the country.

[Baitball Blogger]

11. Or they can do it the way the South Koreans do it.

Between the ages of 18 and 35, they get to decide when they perform the mandatory service, which can take from 18 to 21 months.

I think this is a better system.

[speak easy]

14. "I think this is a better system."

Would you like compulsory system like that in the USA? No? Then why would you think the Brits would like it any better?

[Warpy]

12. Maybe that will finally kick the Tories out of office for a while

Something stupid has to. Little is stupider than mandatory military service in peacetime. That's not the way to turn out soldiers in a time of war. It's a way to get half assed, poorly trained people who have forgotten most of the training they did get. It's a waste of money.

Conservatives love this shit, slave labor for people who are not them. Their own kids will be safely finishing their educations offshore.

[Martin68]

16. Yeah, right. I'll believe that when I see it. They dont't want their own sons and daughters drafted so they'll

build in loopholes for the wealthy and well-connected. I was up for the draft during the Vietnam War, so I know how it works.

[oldsoftie]

22. We need something similar here.

You could do it while you were still in high school; just SOME kind of public service to show kids how the real world is & not what TikTok forces down their throats.Maybe 6 months. Could be the military but wouldn't HAVE to be (although I've long thought everyone should have to go thru basic training just to snap them out of the MTV/Influencer crap)

[H2O Man]

40. I agree.

High school or immediatelt after.

[James48]

23. Good idea.

Bipartisan support here.

[aeromanKC]

26. I've always been supportive of this idea

Especially with "Other Options" such as teaching, community improvement, reading to the blind etc.etc.

[RandomNumbers]

36. I agree, but to do it correctly will require a huge expenditure

meaning someone will have to pay for that. (Hey, maybe we could actually tax the wealthiest people ...)

The best ideas I've seen include giving a sort of "hazard pay" for the dangerous options, like serving in the military, or serving on a wildfire fighting force. Serving as a teacher's aide would normally not be considered eligible for hazard pay. (although with gun culture in the US, maybe it should be)

The program would probably need some sort of enticement to get people into the military when these other options exist. Hazard pay would help with that.

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

30. What the first day will be like

[link:

?feature=shared|

[JustAnotherGen]

31. Deputy PM Salvini (Italy)

Is trying to float this idea in Italy - 6 months of service for all Italians age 18-26. Even the Defence Minister (Crosetto) thinks its a worthless idea. He's focused on an EU Army.

My husband rose to the rank of Colonel in the Italian Special Forces - and he fell under the mandatory service law. However - he had held a green card in the USA since 1973 (4 years old). His parents made their kids born in Italy Maintain them since they moved back in the early 80's.


Stick with me - I'm getting to the point.

Fast forward to 2019 and Trump's draconian moves toward immigrants. The Gio pursues citizenship. The big snafu? Why he didn't register for service in the USA. He was literally in a conflict for the Italian military - as mandatory service.

The UK is no longer part of the EU - and they are not considered a reliable ally. Tit for Tat. They may very well need this as a result of Brexit.

Flip side - my younger brother in law was born in the USA. He registered here in 1993 - so the Italian military did not require the dual citizen by birth to serve.

I'm wondering - post EU then Brexit - if the UK is encountering this challenge? Dual Citizens from EU countries who may have conflicts of interest?

One more personal note of how cross border citizenship causes issues -said brother in law's older daughter would like to be an Aviator. She has US, German, an Italian citizenship - and is smart as a whip. Speaks three languages fluently. Has a picture of Senator Duckworth on her wall in Freiburg. Has her heart set on the US Airforce or Naval Academy - because she thinks she has a better chance in the USA. Parents are paying University coaches now - and prepping her to come stay with us to take the two entrance exams.

There are 15 year olds who WOULD love to serve around the world - but mandatory service could screw up their dreams.

Especially in a post Brexit world where there may be multiple or dual commitments. Doesn't make sense.

[ificandream]

37. Are we sure Republicans won't go for this?

[LudwigPastorius]

38. Oy!

[Martin68]

42. I think Democrats would stand back and let them do that. It would lose them the election.

[twodogsbarking]

43. I worked for decades and the government took part of the money, every payday. Seems to me like, well, public service.

[littlemissmartypants]

46. Trashed.

[Sneederbunk]

49. Unless you have bone spurs.

[Emrys]

50. Here's the UK MoD's official stance rejecting this stupid idea from last Thursday in Parliament

That was after Sunak called the general election, unclear whether it was before or after Sunak's article in the Mail on Sunday spouting about it was written.

[NGeorgian]

51. Getting Ready for Putin's war........**

!

[WarGamer]

56. Come on people... this is a UK article.