Allen West to NPR: ‘Abraham Lincoln only served one term in Congress, too’

[michigandem58]

Source: http://www.postonpolitics.com/2012/12/allen-west-t

Defeated freshman U.S. Rep. Allen West, R-Palm Beach Gardens, discussed his two years in Washington in an exit interview to National Public Radio’s Michel Martin.

“And always remember, Abraham Lincoln only served one term in Congress, too,” West said toward the end of the interview.


Read more: PostOnPolitics

[milestogo]

1. What an idiot.

[hrmjustin]

5. You took the words out of my mouth.

[lsewpershad]

53. Now he thinks he's Lincoln?

Idiot.

[Plucketeer]

77. Remember Lincoln Logs????

That's the only sorta "Lincoln" west compares to - dead wood.

[efhmc]

2. This is an honestly creepy delusional person.

[caveat_imperator]

64. I think west believed his own b.s.

when he claimed he had higher security clearance than the President.

[Aviation Pro]

3. Don't....

...you're not Abraham Lincoln just another former LTC who abused his soldiers.

Did I mention go fuck yourself?

Go fuck yourself.

[Lithos]

4. Lincoln didn't lose re-election

He kept his pledge to only serve a single term.

L-

[Flatpicker]

6. Ok

But you will never become President, so don't think that your story will have a 2nd chapter.

Your actions in delaying your concession have shown you are of poor character. Not to mention your actions in uniform.

[tj_crackersnatch]

7. he is the tea party darling

And unfortunately we haven't seen the last of him.

[JimDandy]

35. Welcome to DU!

[Moonwalk]

8. Um...wow. Double stupid. Lincoln was re-elected in 1864, so even though his second term...

...was cut short, he did get re-elected. Unlike Mr. West there.

[lastlib]

10. (um, to Congress.)

[Heather MC]

21. Lincoln lost quite a few elections and suffered 2 nervous breakdowns before becoming president

but he still was not as crazy as Allen West.

Nothing to worry about the republicans would never let one of their black or female props make it to the white house LOL. but he can dream
They keep Allen and Steele around to appear less racist
there is a reason the word "Token" was invented

[Sekhmets Daughter]

51. They booted Steele as soon as they could...

[SummerSnow]

56. He didn't do his job

His job was to bring more African Americans into the GOP.So when they saw those numbers not changing he had to go.Steele was also hired to trash Obama without looking racist.lol I even believe that if those numbers had not changed and Romney had won they would have fired him anyway

[Sekhmets Daughter]

57. He was fired after the 2010 elections...

he had nothing to do with Romney...

[Major Nikon]

27. Triple stupid. Lincoln was a progressive, not a regressive.

[lastlib]

9. Mr. West, I read about Abraham Lincoln...

Abe Lincoln is a hero of mine. Mr. West, You're no Abraham Lincoln.

Abe Lincoln wasn't a colossal asshole, either, dipshit.

[Fearless]

11. He also wasn't a racist asshole

In a time when it was pretty damn easy to be a racist asshole. What's your excuse?

[MrModerate]

25. Although, to be fair . . .

Today we'd call him a white supremacist. (Presuming we had no sense of history)

[BainsBane]

45. Lincoln was racist

Very few white people of his era were not. He initialized believed in what they then called colonization: sending the freed slaves to Liberia.

But Lincoln's--and the Republican party's--commitment to stopping the spread of slavery into the new territories acquired by the Mexican War would eventual evolve into abolitionism, due in so no small part to Frederick Douglass and other African Americans who insisted that abolition should be the end result of the war.

[Fearless]

46. Does what one initially believes

Dictate what one's later actions disavow?

[BainsBane]

48. I don't think that is the relevant question

Lincoln was a great president, ahead of his time but still of his time. I don't know if he ever came to see blacks as equal. I suspect he did not. But that in no way negates the crucial role in American history. The paradox of race is part of that history. One need not pretend that Lincoln saw race as we do today to recognize his greatness.

Racism was rampant among Northerners who opposed slavery, and in fact played a role in the Republican commitment to Free Soil (stopping the expansion of slavery). But Free Soil eventually led to abolition and paved the way for legal equality a century later. All that is part of the history of ending slavery and Lincoln's central role in that process.

[Fearless]

67. What do you base your assertions on

You say you "think" and cite Northerners as an example of Lincoln likely being racist. The fact is that his actions as president and his words before and during his presidency show a different set of beliefs. For instance during the war he would meet with Black regiments when touring the battlefield. Why would he go out of his way if he detested them?

[BainsBane]

69. I didn't say he detested blacks

Last edited Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:53 AM - Edit history (1)

Lincoln's own writings speak on his belief that blacks and whites could never live amicably in the US. Look for the section on colonization in this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_slavery

The wide-spread racism in the North is evident in newspapers from the time. The Nativist and Know-Nothing parties eventually became part of the Republican Party.
My point is that Lincoln was not a 21st century American. He was a product of his time, and racism was central to 19th century culture. One need not pretend he was not strongly influenced by cultural assumptions of his time to recognize his important role in American history. The tension between equality and Racism is a great paradox in American history. The contradictions involving race and some of our great political figures--like Lincoln and Jefferson-- are far more interesting and instructive than pretending these men were somehow uniquely free of racial prejudice.

[Fearless]

78. No such wikipedia page exists. Looks like if it did, it wasn't exactly credible.

[BainsBane]

80. Here it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_slavery

What I have recounted is basic college intro level US history. There is nothing controversial about it.
Pick up any recent US History survey textbook, the kind they assign in college courses, and verify the information there.

The responses by you and the other poster have given me some insight into why high-school level and popular representations of history are so simplistic. I find it odd people are so resistant to basic information. You seem to have a great deal of difficulty understanding that important men in history were human beings and products of their era. Why you think it should be otherwise befuddles me.

[Fearless]

82. Your own source suggests that

(1) it is unknown if Lincoln actually supported colonization except to aid the passage of the 13th Amendment and the acceptance of the Emancipation Proclamation

and (2) that in the two years before his death, Lincoln had conducted an investigation of these said colonies and then subsequently pulled all federal funding for the projects. They were only revived after his death.

Additionally, I will kindly inform you of my credentials. I have a BA in history and a Masters in Education. I have picked up more than my share of history texts, not the least of which is a wikipedia page. I also understand the struggle faced by abolitionists and those who were anti-slavery in the 1860's and that it is far far more nuanced than just pro or anti-slavery. For a good example of this go see the movie Lincoln and focus on Tommy Lee Jones' character and the struggle to pass the 13th Amendment in particular. It may give you some perspective on the general idea of what I'm talking about here. The fact that a seated president would bother to attempt to pass the 13th Amendment at all is telling of his motives. It was politically unpopular. It was not necessary in 1864 to end the war. The war was already basically won.

[BainsBane]

89. This is what it says

One of President Abraham Lincoln's policies during his administration was the voluntary colonization of African American Freedmen. Historians have debated and have remained divided over whether Lincoln's racial views (or merely his acceptance of the political reality) included that African Americans could not live in the same society as white Americans . . .Since the 1840s Lincoln had been an advocate of the American Colonization Society program of colonizing blacks in Liberia. In an October 16, 1854,[26]:a speech at Peoria, Illinois[27] (transcribed after the fact by Lincoln himself),[26]:b Lincoln points out the immense difficulties of such a task are an obstacle to finding an easy way to quickly end slavery. . . .Lincoln mentioned colonization favorably in his first Emancipation Proclamation, and continued to support efforts at colonization throughout his presidency"

I look forward to seeing the Lincoln film, but you must realize that a Hollywood movie is not a historical source. It is, however, meant to be based on Doris Kearns Goodwin's book.

I am well aware that the entire issue of slavery and race was nuanced. That has been the thrust of my posts. Lincoln's views of race were conflicted, like all white men of his era.

Since people are anxious to share credentials, I have a PhD in history with a research field in slavery. My primary field is not the US, but my minor field, and one in which I passed comprehensive exams, is US slavery. I was also a teaching assistant for US history surveys for many semesters during graduate school. I am not an expert on this matter, but I know something about it.

I would typically not use the term racist to describe Lincoln or anyone of the nineteenth century. Firstly, labels serve no purpose. The point is to understand the contradictions between slavery, liberty, and race in American society. However, I would also not call Alan West racist. I would call him a lunatic, a teabagger, dangerous, and all kinds of other things, but the man is African-American are surely knows far more about the experience of racism than any white person.

[BainsBane]

71. Also see Views on African Americans

At the end of the Wikipedia entry.

[Fearless]

83. Three days before his death

Lincoln gave a speech from the White House declaring his support of what would be the 14th Amendment. The right to vote for all men.

W.E.B. Du Bois spoke of Lincoln of as a man of evolving views whose life was cut short before the evolution would bear fruit (i.e. pre-14th and 15th Amendments).

Likewise, Lincoln invited Fredrick Douglass to the White House multiple times for discussion. Historical record shows that he enjoyed the meetings greatly and always treated Douglass as an equal. He was the first president to do so for a Black man in the White House.

[BainsBane]

90. absolutely

and Douglass was essential in convincing Lincoln to make abolition an end result of the war.

[Fearless]

93. So?

[BainsBane]

94. So?

My point is that Lincoln was conflicted on race, like all men of his era. And that those very contradictions between slavery, liberty, and race tell us a great deal about our historical past and who we are as a people. Lincoln did not despise blacks, but nor did he imagine racial harmony. He couldn't have dreamed of a black president, even though his leadership would contribute to that eventual result.

[Fearless]

95. There is a vast difference between "conflicted" and racist.

Not everyone was "conflicted". Most people detested Black people, North and South. How on Earth could Lincoln in his own time believe that racial harmony is possible. It's been almost 160 years since then and there still isn't total racial harmony. There is a strong allusion to Barack Obama today and his own evolving position on LGBT rights. To which I also don't believe he was ever a bigot.

[BainsBane]

96. See my other post to you

I acknowledge racist isn't the best word, and of course it depends on what one means by that. I don't think it's accurate that most Americans of the time detested blacks either. The pro-slavery discourse on race was paternalistic, portraying them as children unable to survive without a master.

What disturbs me is the tendency to make historical leaders into ideal caricatures because we miss what is most interesting and instructive about history in doing so.

[SemperEadem]

59. IIRC, Lincoln didn't end slavery

because he empathized with the plight of the slave... he ended it to cut off the money train their labor provided to the confederacy. Big huge difference. From that position, he never wavered, even though what he did eventually did emancipate the slave.

[tabasco]

63. Revisionist history (aka "lying") at its worst!

Lincoln found slavery abhorrent. As President, he lacked the authority and support to outlaw slavery. If you remember from civics class, Congress makes laws. However, Lincoln used his constitutional powers as Commander In Chief to outlaw slavery in slave states, which was within his authority.

You said: "From that position, he never wavered..." LOL. Stop spreading falsehoods and pick up a book sometime.

Here are some Lincoln quotes:

"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VIII, "Speech to One Hundred Fortieth Indiana Regiment" (March 17, 1865), p. 361.

"What I do say is, that no man is good enough to govern another man, without that other's consent. I say this is the leading principle - the sheet anchor of American republicanism." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 266.

"We think slavery a great moral wrong, and while we do not claim the right to touch it where it exists, we wish to treat it as a wrong in the territories, where our votes will reach it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume IV, "Speech at New Haven, Connecticut" (March 6, 1860), p. 16.

"In 1841 you and I had together a tedious low-water trip, on a Steam Boat from Louisville to St. Louis. You may remember, as I well do, that from Louisville to the mouth of the Ohio there were, on board, ten or a dozen slaves, shackled together with irons. That sight was a continual torment to me; and I see something like it every time I touch the Ohio, or any other slave-border." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Letter to Joshua F. Speed" (August 24, 1855), p. 320.

"I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Letter to Albert G. Hodges" (April 4, 1864), p. 281.

"I think slavery is wrong, morally, and politically. I desire that it should be no further spread in these United States, and I should not object if it should gradually terminate in the whole Union." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Speech at Cincinnati, Ohio" (September 17, 1859), p. 440.

"In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free - honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just - a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless." Lincoln's Second Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862.

http://rogerjnorton.com/Lincoln95.html

When the American Civil War (1861-65) began, President Abraham Lincoln carefully framed the conflict as concerning the preservation of the Union rather than the abolition of slavery. Although he personally found the practice of slavery abhorrent, he knew that neither Northerners nor the residents of the border slave states would support abolition as a war aim. But by mid-1862, as thousands of slaves fled to join the invading Northern armies, Lincoln was convinced that abolition had become a sound military strategy, as well as the morally correct path. On September 22, soon after the Union victory at Antietam, he issued a preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, declaring that as of January 1, 1863, all slaves in the rebellious states "shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free." While the Emancipation Proclamation did not free a single slave, it was an important turning point in the war, transforming the fight to preserve the nation into a battle for human freedom.

http://www.history.com/topics/emancipation-proclamation

[Fearless]

66. Indeed.

[BainsBane]

70. Why must you ignore part of Lincoln's record

To hold him in esteem? You post reads like a grade-school version of history. Firstly, history is constantly in the process of revision. If it weren't, we would never have gotten beyond learning about kings and presidents. All history is revisionist. To hold political leaders to a 21st century standard does them a disservice. It not only ignores much of who they were, but it dismisses the difficult cultural context that they operated in. If Lincoln had thought as we do, ending slavery would have been an easy decision. His path was far more conflicted. His ability to resolve those contradicts in favor of freedom is precisely what made him such a great President.

Lincoln was NOT an abolitionist. He was a proponent of Free Soil. They were distinct movements. William Lloyd Garrison, Theodore Weld, The Grimkes, Frederick Douglass, and Sojourner Truth were abolitionists. Lincoln was far more pragmatic in seeking to stop the spread of slavery into the new territories. Yet it was Free Soil rather than abolitionism that succeeded in persuading Americans to vote to limit slavery, and that eventually let to it's end.

Lincoln was a active supporter of colonization. Read that section in The following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_slavery

[tabasco]

73. ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz ......

I have a masters degree in history and really don't care about your uninformed opinion. I am more concerned with facts.

[BainsBane]

79. Which is why you refuse to read the link

Since you are so concerned with facts, how do you reconcile Lincoln's in involvement with colonization? How do you reconcile his comments about black inequality in his debates with Douglass? How is it that your positivist view of history leads you to ignore so many facts?

It makes sense you stopped after an MA. Anyone who refuses to consider evidence is not suited to be a historian. You don't have the slightest understanding of historical analysis.

[SemperEadem]

87. lots of educated fools out there, too

having a masters means nothing except you're financially in hock for that piece of paper.

I prefaced what I said with "If I recall correctly". If you can't inform without being nasty about it, then keep your "education" to yourself.

[SemperEadem]

85. I do believe I prefaced my post with

If I recall correctly--meaning that there was some doubt in what I was recalling...

[BainsBane]

72. Also see

The section on Lincoln's views on African Americans at the end of that Wikipedia entry.

[SemperEadem]

86. I don't care about Lincoln

I'll let you get your blood pressure up throwing punches at the air over it...

[newspeak]

97. actually it was lincoln's father who was against slavery

because the simple farmer couldn't compete with the big plantations and their slave labor. lincoln states that his father was against slavery for that reason and that's why they moved from kentucky. but, that wasn't lincoln's stance.

it's actually very enlightening looking back to a time where the "radical republicans" were the abolitionists; and the "conservative" republicans were the remnants of the whig party.

by the 1860s, many european countries, along with, great britain had already outlawed slavery. how enlightened is the us, really?

lincoln, to me, was against slavery, not like his father for economic purposes, but for moral reasons. and yes, there were racists even in the north, but the abolitionist movement was no small thing at the time.

[99th_Monkey]

12. CBS "takes a closer look"

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-4731552.html

[Ken Burch]

13. "And Abraham Lincoln tortured people, too..."

(oh, wait...)

[Journeyman]

14. Yes. And far more single-term congresscritters have slipped into obscurity or irrelevance. . .

Any bets on which category Allen West has the greatest opportunity to join?

[radicalliberal]

15. Shut up already!

Good grief! What an ego!

[Ken Burch]

16. As The Firesign Theatre once put it...

"And remember, Mr. and Mrs. America...Abraham Lincoln didn't die in vain...he died in Washington, D.C.".

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. Delusions of grandeur. :rolleyes:

[jmowreader]

18. How many war crimes did Lincoln commit when he was in the Army?

[NickP]

19. The difference is....

that Abraham Lincoln grew into something productive and into a leader, not a washed up has-been. Poor sod, I almost feel sorry for him......no, never mind, I don't.

[Arkana]

20. Colonel, I knew Abe Lincoln.

Abe Lincoln was a friend of mine.

Colonel, you are no Abe Lincoln.

[aaaaaa5a]

29. +1

[LadyHawkAZ]

22. The President only served one term in the senate

but wait! He was too inexperienced to be President! Right, Mr. West? I mean, that's what all your (R) buddies were saying in 2008.

Don't go away mad, Allen, just go away. And good riddance.

[Garion_55]

23. Same as obama

cept obama got a promotion. you got fired.

GO AWAY YOU FRAKKEN @$$H@T

[donco]

24. There ya go repugs

Your 2016 presidential candidate...might I add that Todd Akin would be superb candidate for the vice presidential slot as well.

[Left Coast2020]

42. You mean Vice President of Toilet Bowl Inspections for W. Palm Beach

Or somewhere in Florida.

[Brother Buzz]

26. Davy Crockett only served one term then promptly left the country

"I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas." Following his defeat, he did just that.

[aaaaaa5a]

28. Flat out delusional. nt

[wordpix]

30. and if the R's keep coming up with these T-bagger candidates, they'll all be one-term wonders

this guy's ties with Dimson for stoooopid

[47of74]

31. 'cuse me while I get this out and use it....

[Jamaal510]

32. Phail.

[IMG][/IMG]

[AtheistCrusader]

33. Allen West injured a prisoner.

He was no fucking Abraham Lincoln.


"One popularly repeated story from Lincoln's Black Hawk War service illustrates Lincoln's qualities of honesty, and courageous, competent leadership. It involved a Potawotami who wandered into Captain Lincoln's camp and Lincoln's men assumed him a spy and wanted to kill him. The story goes that Lincoln threw himself between the Native American and the men's muskets, knocking their weapons upward. The militia men backed down after a few heated seconds."

[Javaman]

34. when equating oneself to Lincoln, that's the equivalent of naming...

your D & D toon Conan.

There was only one Lincoln, everyone else are wannabes and usually fail before a live audience.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

36. Lincoln killed zombies, too.

Double. Tap.

[Renew Deal]

37. Please run for president!

[racer_tim]

38. What a jerk

What an arrogant ass.

[hrmjustin]

68. Welcome to DU!

[Tab]

39. I knew Abraham Lincoln.

Abraham Lincoln was a friend of mine, and you, sir, are no Abraham Lincoln.

[SoapBox]

40. Looks like...

ya'all have said about all that needs to be said about Mr. Loser.

So...I'll just add...fuck off asshole...and BUH-BYE!

[jtuck004]

41. Yeah, and what a difference 165 years makes. Loser. n/t

[Third Doctor]

43. So this nut

is comparing himself to one of the greatest politicians this country has produced? Allen, is insane and should never hold public office again.

[mzteaze]

44. For this statement

he should AUTOMATICALLY win the RNC nod.

His VP picks should be:

-Todd Akin
- Crazy Eyes Bachmann
- Mr 999 (this would really shake up the 'diversity problem' for the GOP)

Shoot, his campaign should dare to be different and run the VP position as a share program.

[chef jeff]

47. >facepalm<

Comparing yourself to Abe Lincoln? Really?

Fine.
Someone please give Allen West a stovepipe hat and tickets for balcony seating at Ford's Theater. I'd be happy to play the role of John Wilkes Booth.

[Iggy]

49. Lamestream Media Continues to

give the microphone to the losers, the arrogant loudmouths, the ciphers. that's why I ignore lamestream media and their sponsors.

all I need to know about West to know he's a huge, worthless arsehole is the fact while in the military he shot a gun off near a prisoner's head, probably causing that unfortunate person to go deaf.

Fair to assume West wishes he was at abu Ghraib so he could "get in on the action there".

[jopacaco]

50. Has he congratulated Patrick Murphy yet?

I heard an interview with Patrick Murphy earlier in the week and he said that Allen West had yet to call and congratulate him on his win. Absolutely no class, even Mitt managed to do that.

[heaven05]

52. geesh!

I gave up on NPR after their proIraq war drumbeat. Interviewing this mistake of a human being proves I was not wrong in my assessment. I guess faux noise is next.

[no_hypocrisy]

54. I think West is confusing Napoleon with Lincoln.

Exile to Elba and all that led to Waterloo.

[UTUSN]

55. Which way to go on this: 1) Run, WEST, run!1 or, 2) You, Rep., are NO Abe LINCOLN!1 n/t

[Enrique]

58. first he made Harriet Tubman roll over in her grave

now Abe Lincoln. Why won't he let these people rest in peace?

[Cryptoad]

60. Seems that Rethugs,,,,

know as much about History as they do Math!

[mzteris]

61. sounds like a threat to me.

I think the Secret Service should pay a visit to Mr. West and do a very thorough investigation of him and all of his associates.

[NYC Liberal]

62. Reminds me of what Carl Sagan said:

But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

[and-justice-for-all]

65. He is needs professional help...

that man is a wreck.

[Douglas Carpenter]

74. So Allen West is the new Abraham Lincoln just as Rick Santorum is the new George Washington?

[lin_e65]

75. But Lincoln was an intelligent man...

not a blow hard.

[NC_Nurse]

76. LOL. At least he's an AMUSING jackass.

[teknomanzer]

88. No, that was Herman Cain...

Allen West is not amusing at all.

[MurrayDelph]

81. Hey, Allen

George Nicholas Eckert was also a one-term Whig congressman from the same Congress as Lincoln.

(And to anyone who says "who?" My point, exactly).

[PossumSqueezins]

84. Remember the old urban legend Lincoln /Kennedy coincidences??

Things like: "Lincoln was shot by John Wilkes Booth at Ford's Theatre; Kennedy was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald in a Lincoln automobile, made by Ford.
Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy who told him not to go to the theatre; Kennedy had a secretary named Evelyn Lincoln who warned him not to go to Dallas.
Both presidents' last names have 7 letters.
Both presidents have five syllables in their full name (which counts Kennedy's middle initial).
Booth ran from a theatre to a warehouse; Oswald ran from a warehouse to a theatre."

We need to start that with Lincoln/Alan West similarities.

OK. I'll start.

1) Lincoln freed the slaves. Alan West got mad at a hooker one night and beat her with a car antenna.

2) Lincoln was the 16th President. Alan West is a misogynistic homophobic miscreant.

3) Lincoln was shot in the head. Alan West is delusional.

OK. Carry on.

[BainsBane]

91. Lincoln will be forever remembered as one of our greatest presidents

no one will remember who Alan West is in a few years time.

[freethought]

98. Yeah, but Lincoln wasn't a nutcase. n/t