US blocks Palestine from becoming full member of the United Nations

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: UK Independent

19 minutes ago


The US vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution on Thursday that would have allowed Palestine to be admitted as a full member of the international body and effectively recognised its statehood. The Biden administration said that while it supports Palestinian statehood, it could only be granted as part of wide-ranging peace negotiations with Israel.

“It remains the US view that the most expeditious path toward statehood for the Palestinian people is through direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority with the support of the United States and other partners,” Vedant Patel, the State Department spokesman, told reporters earlier in the day.

The 15-member council voted on a draft resolution that would have recommended to the 193-member UN General Assembly that “the State of Palestine be admitted to membership of the United Nations.”

Twelve members voted in favour, two abstained and the US vetoed. It needed at least nine votes to pass and no vetoes from the five permanent members — the United States, Britain, France, Russia and China. Currently, Palestine only holds non-member observer status, which it gained in 2012. That status is a de-facto recognition of statehood, but does not allow it to vote on UN resolutions.

Read more: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/palestine-united-nations-us-veto-b2531156.html

[TexasDem69]

1. Cool

[Archae]

2. Untill they dump the anti-Isral and corruption...

They don't deserve to be a nation in the UN.

[claudette]

3. Why?

What a disgrace

[paleotn]

5. Last I checked, they're not a country.

[claudette]

6. Because Israel

doesn’t want them to be. Gaza and Weat Bank are home to the Palestinians.

[paleotn]

7. And home to incredibly corrupt governments.

One run by unabashed terrorists.

[William769]

19. Thank you.

[tornado34jh]

23. Corruption? So is Netanyahu's government and his far-right Likud party

Go look up Itamir Ben-Gavir, Bezalel Smotrich and other members of the Likud Party, look up what their views are, and you tell me how that would prevent Palestinians from wanting to support Hamas. They are a big reason for why the war is there. Who do you think the settlers support? Israel is no saint in this conflict, and I can guarantee you that the Likud party's views are not a fringe thing. There's blame to go around. Yes, I think that the Palestinians should stop supporting Hamas, but if that is the case, it takes two to tango, and Israel's government is not helping the situation at all.

[paleotn]

25. Whataboutism.

[tornado34jh]

28. That is the position of the Likud Party

I still stand by the fact that Netanyahu is one of the most corrupt people in the world.

[AloeVera]

30. Accountability.

[ripcord]

9. One of the responsibilities of a country is making sure your citizens aren't attacking other nations

I have seen no attempts at "Palestine" even attempting this.

[cstanleytech]

10. Well to be fair it is usually the things that will pull in more viewers that get reported by the news media.

A shooting or bombing? Yes. Palestinian and Israeli neighbors doing something to help each other? Not so much.

[tornado34jh]

15. Ask Armenia how that is going with Azerbaijan

By that logic, should Azerbaijan not be considered a UN member because its people attacks Armenia?

[LeftInTX]

44. Or Russia or the US or Pakistan/India or Iraq for that matter!

[tornado34jh]

49. If we went by that logic

A lot of, if not most of the countries would not be in the UN since their citizens attacked another country or are trying to annex others. Last month, Venezuela passed a law designating the Essequibo region, which is de facto part of Guyana, as theirs. Do we then say Venezuela shouldn't be in the UN? It then becomes a whole thing of what happened in the past, and really, that would effectively end the UN.

[jg10003]

13. neither does Egypt and Jordan

[Darwins_Retriever]

32. Not since 1967.

When Arab nations and Palestinians attacked Israel and were soundly defeated, losing territory. Also historically, Jordan dissolved Palestine. As a result of the partition after WW2, the territory of Turkey was divided between what would become Israel and the West Bank which was given to Jordan to administer. Jordan decided to grant citizenship to the Palestinians in the West Bank. It only took Jordan a few months to decide that was a mistake and took the citizenship of Palestinians away. So the relationship between Jordan and the Palestinians and losing (badly) a war with Israel cemented the fact that there is no Palestine.

[sarisataka]

8. Perhaps President Biden sees the wisdom

Of not immediately supporting statehood for an aggressive conservative theocracy run by extremists.

[cstanleytech]

11. That kind of sounds like a few counties in some red states.

[EllieBC]

14. Isn't it strange how no one

seems to mind this type of conservative theocracy?

[tornado34jh]

16. Probably pressured by the Israeli government

Also, it is Fatah, not Hamas, that is the ruling party of Palestine. The main part of the government is on the West Bank; they do not control the Gaza Strip. I assume that if it were accepted as a UN member state, it would be the Palestinian National Authority under Mahmoud Abbas that would be the governing body, of which the representative to the UN is Riyad Mansour. If it was Hamas, it would have probably been someone like Yahya Sinwar or Ismail Haliyeh. But again, France, South Korea, and Japan, all US allies, supported the resolution. If it was Hamas that was the main governing body, I don't think as many people would have supported that UN resolution.

[Cha]

20. NO, It's NOT a "disgrace".. Team Biden Knows What

they're Doing.

Thank Goodness. Oh and Fuck Hamas.

[Oopsie Daisy]

4. Good.

[SunSeeker]

12. Good. Palestine is not a country, and the Gaza Strip is governed by Hamas, a terrorist organization. nt

[murielm99]

18. Exactly what I would have said.

[tornado34jh]

21. You do know that Hamas doesn't control the West Bank, right, or do you forget that?

We act like Hamas controls all of Palestine. It is the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), not Hamas, that is the body of the government. Heck, the representative of Palestine to the UN is from the Fatah party. I would assume that it were it accepted, it would be the PNA that would be the governing body. Also, France, Japan, and South Korea, all US allies, supported the resolution. I am pretty sure that if it was Hamas that was the governing body of Palestine, I doubt that many countries in the UNSC would have supported it.

[SunSeeker]

26. I didn't forget jack shit. Drop the snark. I explicitly said Hamas controls the Gaza Strip.

I did not say Hamas controls the West Bank.

There is no Palestine. There is the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

And don't assume Gaza and the West Bank would both agree on the PNA as their governing body. In the West Bank, 92% called for the resignation of their PNA leader. At the same time, 44% in the West Bank said they supported Hamas, up from just 12% in September. 57% of polled respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514

As long as a sadistic, murderous theocratic terrorist organization is in charge of Gaza, and favored by almost half of the West Bank Palestinians, we cannot agree to let Gaza and the West Bank be recognized as a country by the UN, regardless of how Japan, France and South Korea votes.

[moniss]

29. We'll never know what

any of the citizens there want because that would take elections and all of the infrastructure for holding any sort of an election, what little hasn't been bombed out, is controlled completely by the IDF as to when, if, where, how etc. and so nothing will happen along that line, if ever, for many, many years in Gaza. In the West Bank any and all movement of people from point to point is tightly controlled by the IDF. Likewise any financial resources for conducting any elections. Likewise the ability for people to freely go about and campaign. Likewise the ability to go to the polls. Likewise the ......... (fill in the blank since all of life in the West Bank is controlled by whatever the IDF/Israeli government decides). Well so much for people who have been claiming "they could vote them out if they wanted to".

So the US response is that we should somehow get to the Palestinians having a state by having them "negotiate" with someone on the other side of the table who has sworn there will never be a Palestinian state. The same someone who has rejected any discussion of allowing the things promised to the Palestinians when Israel was allowed to partition UN controlled disputed land for itself and declare "independence". All while that same someone is supported in every way by the US. While the US looks at the world and expects to not be met with ridicule when we claim to be "honest arbiters for peace".

Nobody believes the US is anything other than 100% in the pocket of the Israeli government. Nobody believes the US cares about the citizens in the other Middle Eastern countries and nobody believes the US is about anything other than natural resources and it's own interests. The whole thing has been a sham from the British Mandate on through. The evidence is overwhelming of the huge gaslighting that has been pushed for decade after decade.

[AloeVera]

31. So well-said.

People tend to ignore this part.

So the US response is that we should somehow get to the Palestinians having a state by having them "negotiate" with someone on the other side of the table who has sworn there will never be a Palestinian state.

All of it is spot-on. Hypocrisy, double standards and gaslighting.

[SunSeeker]

34. It is Hamas and the folks chanting "river to the sea" who think Israel shouldn't exist.

Talk about gaslighting and hypocrisy...

[moniss]

39. Netanyahu and the far right

in Israel are on record for many years saying they will never allow a Palestinian state. They have their own slogans too.

[SunSeeker]

40. And Netanyahu would almost certainly have been pushed out by now had it not been for Hamas' 10/7 atrocity.

This whole mess is Hamas' fault.

[moniss]

42. I doubt that is the case despite the

fact that I had some initial leanings in that direction. I say that after following the corruption trial because it looks like the prosecution case is in trouble. Yes there is a large percentage of the Israeli population who wants him out but after 4 elections in 5 years nobody can seem to form a government that does not include Likud and we know who that means. Calling elections again, even in the absence of the current armed conflict, doesn't look like it can negate Likud and the far right.

I would love to be wrong and have Israel hold elections quickly and go center-left but that isn't realistic.

[SunSeeker]

43. Well it's not going to happen now that Israel is at war, thanks to Hamas. nt

[AloeVera]

58. It's a fool's game.

Lucky that Hamas and those folks on the streets were never at the negotiating table, nor will they ever be. So whatever they are chanting is not relevant, no matter what the pearl-clutchers want us to believe.

The only relevant issue is how can we expect any results on a Palestinian State - a stated goal if the U.S. after all - in negotiations where the side that holds all the power (being an actual State that just happens to also be an occupying force of the other side) has already firmly declared it will not allow such a state?

Can you think of how that would be possible because I just see it as a fool's game.

[Mosby]

35. You are purposely ignoring decades of negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

It's Hamas, Islamic Jihad, al Aqsa Martyrs brigade, Hezbollah, Lions Den etc who have sworn never to accept Israel. The leaders of Israel, going back almost 80 years, have tried to reach a permanent settlement, but failed time and again due to Palestinian intransigence. The Palestinians have turned down the Peel plan (1937) the Partition plan (1947), the offer to transfer land after the 6 day war, Camp David in 2000, Taba in 2001, the olmert plan in 2008 and the road map plan.

The sham of the British mandate is that they gave the Palestinian half away to the Hashemites. That wasn't the plan. They created this mess.

Eta - the reason the Palestinians can't just unilaterally create a country is because it violates standing international law, per UNSCR 242 and 338.

[moniss]

38. Not ignoring the gaslight negotiations that have been going on forever

and that includes long before Hamas or Hezbollah. When you have multiple sides in a negotiation over something and a mutually agreeable resolution isn't reached you don't have one side say "Well we're just going to go with whatever we wanted anyway and the rest of you can just f**k off." Unless of course you want to continue having an ongoing, never-ending conflict despite claiming to be just about wanting to now live peacefully in the borders you unilaterally declared. Borders which by the way the documents show were never going to be a restraint from ongoing activity of raiding villages in areas outside those borders.

You quote UN resolutions regarding the issue of this disputed land as supposedly something to be followed. That's a laugh because I don't see Israel making moves to comply regarding any resolutions requiring them to do things or not do things. More of "their way or the highway" approach to matters.

[SunSeeker]

37. That is totally wrong. Joe Biden cares about the people of the middle east, and Americans.

It is Hamas who doesn't give a shit about us or its own people, choosing to slaughter 1200 Israelis and start a war they knew Israel would finish. To them, it was worth making their people "martyrs" so the world would feel sorry for them, even though Hamas were the butchers.

But you keep trashing Biden and we'll get Trump, Jared will get his Gaza resort, and America will no longer be a democracy.

[moniss]

41. The IDF has

knowingly and purposely taken part in supporting violence in the West Bank by the international criminals who occupy the Israeli settlements. The IDF and the far right nutjobs in the Israeli government have knowingly and purposely targeted children in a response in Gaza that is way beyond any proportion to what was done on 10/7. It is not the first instance of such a disproportionate response either down through the years.

Too many people around the world fail to be able to see that criticism of longstanding US policy over many decades does not equate automatically to "trashing" Biden. It is similar to the problem of people who see any criticism of Netanyahu/Israeli government policy as being anti-Israel etc. But then again much of that same crowd who do that equate any support for the Palestinian people as being pro Hamas/Hezbollah.

Some people think any support of some people means support for everything and anything those people have ever done or anybody controlling them has ever done. It is weak argument. Just like a critique of an action of a people or someone controlling them means you are anti that person/people or that you are "trashing" them. I've been on record so many times decrying the conduct of all parties in the region and their supporters around the world for the many decades of despicable acts and disingenuous conduct. I'm really tired of having to repeat it all over and over.

I have no idea where you come up with the idea that critiquing US longstanding conduct means someone is saying Joe Biden doesn't care about Americans.

[SunSeeker]

45. YOU said Biden doesn't care about the middle east.

Quoting YOU in post 29:

Nobody believes the US is anything other than 100% in the pocket of the Israeli government. Nobody believes the US cares about the citizens in the other Middle Eastern countries... 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=3227945

Your statement is false and is Biden bashing. It is shit like that which is helping Trump.

[moniss]

46. You said "Americans"

and for your information a President is not the entire US. The US in this context is the sum total of what controls what happens in the country. The President in our system is limited by Congress, the Courts and to a degree by the States. But perhaps of most importance in exercising control in this country are the wealthy and corporations. Nowhere in your quote of me or in the original can you find me referring to the President specifically or to American citizens.

[SunSeeker]

47. If you meant "the wealthy and corporations" and not the US/Biden, then SAY SO.

But when you were referring to the US, that can only be understood to be referring to Biden foreign policy in this context and the context of the OP. Our UN vote blocking Palestine from becoming a full member of the United Nations was straight Biden policy; it was not controlled by Congress, the Courts nor the states, nor "the wealthy and corporations." This whole thread is about the Biden appointee's UN vote. If you are bashing that vote, or "the US" in that context, then you are bashing Biden.

[moniss]

48. I didn't think it was necessary

to single it out because I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that the wealthy and corporate interests are not sitting idly by now nor have they in the past. I'm terribly sorry that you thought I meant just one person even though I used the broad category "US" and I did so because "US" policy doesn't get made without the aforementioned parties "activities".

When I go to critique something that is aimed at someone specifically I have no hesitation to single them out by name. When I am critiquing and entire system of multiple actors, especially so many as here, and functioning as a country I also have no hesitation to single that out as I did here when I said "US". If I had meant the countries of the West I would have said so. But in the entire matter at hand that would be wrong because they are a mixed bag.

So "US" means all of it not just some of the actors. Have no fear I'll call them out if I mean to identify and limit my critique to just one or two.

But on the subject of the vote specifically I disagree that is "straight Biden policy". I think that attributes to him alone a policy stance and desire that the "US", remember who that is, has held an enacted for a long time. Calling it "straight Biden policy" might have someone think you're laying the idea as his creation rather than what it is.

[SunSeeker]

50. Biden is nobody's puppet. That would be Trump, who you are assisting with your rhetoric. nt

[moniss]

51. OK

[tornado34jh]

54. Israel don't have extremist groups/people? Look again

People like Itamir Ben-Gavir and Bezalel Smotrich, both of who are part of the Likud party have explicitly stated the want to expel the Palestinians from Gaza and West Bank, their fucking words, not mine. Don't believe me, go look them up, and you tell me how that is going to make the Palestinians not want to go for a group like Hamas. By the way, it was the PNA, not Hamas, who initiated the bid. Neither Hamas nor the PNA see eye-to-eye, they split a long time ago. Also, if the whole reason we aren't allowing Palestine to become a state because of Hamas, a group who doesn't even control the West Bank, let alone the Palestinian government, then by that logic there would be a hell of a lot more countries that wouldn't be in the UN, such as Russia, Azerbaijan, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, etc.

Unless I misheard it, I don't remember hearing the Palestinian National Authority ever calling for terrorism. If it was Hamas initiating the bid, I highly doubt that many countries in the UNSC, never mind the General Assembly, would have favored the resolution, because I don't believe that countries like Albania, France, Japan, South Korea, and Brazil would have voted yes. So clearly it was not Hamas for the reason they favored it because I am sure these countries know what Hamas is.

[SunSeeker]

56. Yes, there are extremists in Israel, like every country. And Hamas empowered them with Hamas' 10/7 atrocity.

But Israel is not governed by a sadistic terrorist organization. Likud and Hamas are not comparable.

[tornado34jh]

62. They existed long before Hamas ever became an issue

I think most countries know that Hamas is a terrorist group, but the far-right in Israel have wanted to this regardless of if Hamas was there or not. You mention the 10/7 attacks, well, the government still has to answer questions about what it knew before the attacks. If the stories are true that they knew that Hamas was planning the attacks and that Hamas were supposedly training for it in broad daylight visible to anyone, but ignored the warnings they need to explain why. It's unlikely that Hamas will be eliminated unless you look at all potential Middle East countries where they may be hiding. Either way, I'm calling out both sides regardless of how much blame there is to go around.

[iemanja]

33. If Palestine were a country

It could have a standing army and would not therefore have to engage in asymmetrical warfare. That is exactly what those who oppose Palestinian statehood want to avoid. They want to keep terrorists in Gaza to continue to legitimize Israel's illegal occupation.

[Tarheel_Dem]

17. Excellent!

[TeamProg]

22. As it should at this point in time. Biden is right. nt

[Prairie Gates]

24. It remains the US view that the shit that's been failing for 30 years should continue to fail

Bravo!

[no_hypocrisy]

27. If the territory isn't Palestine, and

it isn’t Israel, what is it?

[Mosby]

36. Its disputed land pending resolution of UNSCR 242 and 338.

Nt

[Mz Pip]

52. No surprise

Maybe if one of the large neighboring countries can carve out a territory for a Palestinian state then we can revisit this. It should not be all on Israel.

All this turmoil can’t be good for neighboring countries.

[AloeVera]

55. Reward for bad behaviour.

Why should it be on neighbouring countries, may I ask? The Palestinians were promised a state. Israel has taken over and occupies over 90% of the lands meant for - partitioned for- that state.

Palestinians have already been ethnically cleansed from both Israel proper and the West Bank. More ethnic cleansing to make room for Greater Israel is not the answer.

What you are suggesting is to reward Israel for bad behaviour.

[jimfields33]

57. Israel went through hell in the 1940's. Why is that always forgotten?

We lost a whole lot of good people during that period. I think that needs to be reminded in the media often

[Zeitghost]

59. Ethnically cleansed?

That must come as a surprise to the almost 2 million Palestinian who are living in Israel as citizens and the 3 million living in the West Bank.


As for other countries playing a part. The Millions of Palestinians living in the West Bank were Jordanian until not that long ago. Then Jordan refused to take back the land it lost when it attacked Israel and stripped them of their citizenship. So they have a large role in why so many are stateless and need to help solve the problem.

[AloeVera]

60. I am not going to argue history...

With someone who seems to believe 750,000 people, or about three-quarters of the native Palestinian population, either didn't exist or left their homes and lands for no reason at all between 1947-49.

As for the current population in Israel, I assume you have heard of natural population growth.

Jordan did not "refuse" to take back the West Bank. You can blame the failure of that peace agreement on Yitzhak Shamir.

In 1987 Israeli Foreign Affairs Minister Shimon Peres and King Hussein tried secretly to arrange a peace agreement in which Israel would concede the West Bank to Jordan. The two signed an agreement defining a framework for a Middle Eastern peace conference. The proposal was not consummated due to Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir's objection. The following year Jordan abandoned its claim to the West Bank in favor of a peaceful resolution between Israel and the PLO.[3][4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Jordan_peace_treaty#:~:text=10%20External%20links-,History,a%20Middle%20Eastern%20peace%20conference.

In any case Jordan relinquished its claim to the West Bank a year or so later in favour of recognizing the PLO as the legitimate representative of Palestinians. All's well that ends well.

[Zeitghost]

61. So maybe

Jordan can take back all of the Jordanian citizens they stripped of statehood.

[AloeVera]

63. Not a chance.

Palestinians want their own state. Just like they were promised.

[Zeitghost]

64. What they want is the destruction of Israel

They have made it very clear that the elimination of Israel is the primary goal and have repeatedly turned down their own country if that was not part of the deal.

I see no reason why them returning to Jordan is not a viable solution. There was no difference between the Jordanians and the Palestinians prior to the creation of Israel. They share the same history, culture, religion, language and up until a few decades ago citizenship. The very notion of the Palestinians as a distinct group of people in need of their own nation state is nothing more than a tool of those who want to see the elimination of Israel. They are pawns being used by Iran and others.

[AloeVera]

65. Well, THIS is very enlightening. N/T

[cstanleytech]

53. Maybe it's time for a change and make it so vetos can be challenged with a secret vote by UN members?

That way the large countries like Russia, China and the US will have a hard time strong arming votes.