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riversedge

(70,126 posts)
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 08:56 AM Nov 2023

Pence told Jan. 6 special counsel harrowing details about 2020 aftermath, warnings to Trump: Sources

Source: abc news




The former VP is the top official known to have spoken with investigators.

By Katherine Faulders, Mike Levine, and Alexander Mallin


November 28, 2023, 4:08 AM

3:12

Pence told Jan. 6 special counsel about warnings to Trump in 2020 aftermath: Sources
Mike Pence told special counsel Jack Smith's team that Donald Trump had almost pushed the country in...

Speaking with special counsel Jack Smith's team earlier this year, former Vice President Mike Pence offered harrowing details about how, in the wake of the 2020 presidential election, then-President Donald Trump surrounded himself with "crank" attorneys, espoused "un-American" legal theories, and almost pushed the country toward a "constitutional crisis," according to sources familiar with what Pence told investigators.

The sources said Pence also told investigators he's "sure" that -- in the days before Jan. 6, 2021, when a violent mob tried to stop Congress from certifying the election -- he informed Trump he still hadn't seen evidence of significant election fraud, but Trump was unmoved, continuing to claim the election was "stolen" and acting "recklessly" on that "tragic day."

Pence is the highest-ranking current or former government official known to have spoken with the special counsel team investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 election. What he allegedly told investigators, described exclusively to ABC News, sheds further light on the evidence Smith's team has amassed as it prosecutes Trump for allegedly trying to unlawfully "remain in power" and "erode public faith" in democratic institutions...........


........................

However, sources told ABC News, Pence said he grew concerned when, within days of the election, Trump began ignoring the advice of credible and experienced attorneys inside the White House, instead relying on outside attorneys like Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell, who pushed notions of widespread election fraud and, as Pence allegedly told Smith's team, "did a great disservice to the president and a great disservice to the country."................

....................

Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/US/pence-told-jan-6-special-counsel-harrowing-details/story?id=105183391






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43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Pence told Jan. 6 special counsel harrowing details about 2020 aftermath, warnings to Trump: Sources (Original Post) riversedge Nov 2023 OP
Thank God for Judge Luttig, Pence's conscience. Joinfortmill Nov 2023 #1
And former VP Dan Quayle who told him there was no wiggle room. He had to preside over the certification of EC votes. brush Nov 2023 #28
On Christmas Eve-Pence -for a moment said he would follow Trump suggestion and let someone else precide over Jan 6. riversedge Nov 2023 #2
"too hurtful to my friend" tanyev Nov 2023 #3
::Barf:: intrepidity Nov 2023 #15
A salute to Pence's son, the Marine mainer Nov 2023 #4
Exactly! Ohioboy Nov 2023 #17
What's alarming is Mr.Bill Nov 2023 #40
Yes! Very scary! Ohioboy Nov 2023 #43
That just makes me want to barf. yardwork Nov 2023 #12
Ever since the Colorado ruling intrepidity Nov 2023 #14
This is why Pence should never be elected to a leadership role Raven123 Nov 2023 #19
a lot of these "christians" are like that Kali Nov 2023 #21
"....he has to be told what to do." Not a problem. That's what he married "mother" for. jaxexpat Nov 2023 #27
I agree with you. Raven123 Nov 2023 #29
Excellent post... bahboo Nov 2023 #30
Pence's son knew right from wrong Deminpenn Nov 2023 #41
This makes me like Pence a little more. leftyladyfrommo Nov 2023 #5
There's no way to know PJMcK Nov 2023 #7
Now that is a great way to look at his issue. riversedge Nov 2023 #8
And he called Dan Quayle too, Captain Zero Nov 2023 #24
Quail and Pence. There's a pair to draw to. nt leftyladyfrommo Nov 2023 #26
Are all Republicans born spineless??? NoMoreRepugs Nov 2023 #6
SOB should have gone public immediately. What an asshole. chicoescuela Nov 2023 #9
He probably thought he had a shot at being President. C Moon Nov 2023 #31
I give Pence credit for not following Trump's plans on Jan. 6, but not much else. ificandream Nov 2023 #10
If this is a sample of the testimony against TFG, he's screwed. JohnnyRingo Nov 2023 #11
Playing devil's advocate, won't he just say he listened Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2023 #16
If you came up with that defense.... JohnnyRingo Nov 2023 #33
Its what i dont get about pursuing the 1-6 conviction Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2023 #36
There are supposedly 100s of text messages from Mark Meadows FakeNoose Nov 2023 #37
Hear ya! Just not enough "knock your socks off" hard evidence Laura PourMeADrink Nov 2023 #39
This news really made me queasy northoftheborder Nov 2023 #13
Apparently he was the weak link until his son talked to him Ohioboy Nov 2023 #18
Give Pence a medal, as well. Paladin Nov 2023 #42
And all of them are as free as anybody else. No convictions or jail time. Strange isn't it. republianmushroom Nov 2023 #20
In our attempt to take down cult leader Trump democrank Nov 2023 #22
Trump..."almost pushed the country toward a 'constitutional crisis' ". LudwigPastorius Nov 2023 #23
"almost" orangecrush Nov 2023 #32
@JoyceWhiteVance: " So much for the view that Pence was a principled man who did the right thing on January 6." riversedge Nov 2023 #25
Hearing about his son in the Marines having been his conscience, SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2023 #34
Unless Pence comes out and say he will not vote for Trump in 2024 under any circumstances, screw him! BlueNIndiana Nov 2023 #35
I want to know why he didn't get into the car with the SS elias7 Nov 2023 #38

brush

(53,749 posts)
28. And former VP Dan Quayle who told him there was no wiggle room. He had to preside over the certification of EC votes.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:41 PM
Nov 2023

There was nothing else he could do.

riversedge

(70,126 posts)
2. On Christmas Eve-Pence -for a moment said he would follow Trump suggestion and let someone else precide over Jan 6.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 09:05 AM
Nov 2023

Seems no on told Grassley till later [my speculation].



.............But, the sources said, with the pressure on Pence mounting, he concluded on Christmas Eve -- just for a moment -- that he would follow Trump's suggestion and let someone else preside over the proceedings on Jan. 6, writing in his notes that doing otherwise would be "too hurtful to my friend."

"Not feeling like I should attend electoral count," Pence wrote in his notes in late December. "Too many questions, too many doubts, too hurtful to my friend. Therefore I'm not going to participate in certification of election."

Then, sitting across the table from his son, a Marine, while on vacation in Colorado, his son said to him, "Dad, you took the same oath I took" -- it was "an oath to support and defend the Constitution," Pence recalled to Smith's investigators, sources said.

That's when Pence decided he would be at the Capitol on Jan. 6 after all, according to the sources.................



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tanyev

(42,533 posts)
3. "too hurtful to my friend"
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 09:41 AM
Nov 2023

You mean the "friend" whose supporters wanted to hang you? He's not your friend and he would have gleefully watched that happen, Mike. Geez.

Ohioboy

(3,240 posts)
17. Exactly!
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 11:33 AM
Nov 2023

It's scary how history can come down to a moment. Glad Pence's son was there in that moment to remind his father of his duty to the Constitution.

Mr.Bill

(24,262 posts)
40. What's alarming is
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 12:06 AM
Nov 2023

that someone who had been a Governor and the VP of the United States needed to be reminded of it.

Ohioboy

(3,240 posts)
43. Yes! Very scary!
Wed Nov 29, 2023, 10:15 AM
Nov 2023

Plus, Pence isn't out there warning people against Trump in any meaningful way. As someone who was there in real time as it was all happening, Pence should be on a mission to stop this kind of thing from ever happening again.

intrepidity

(7,279 posts)
14. Ever since the Colorado ruling
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 11:06 AM
Nov 2023

I'm wondering if this sort of statement can even be made anymore:


Then, sitting across the table from his son, a Marine, while on vacation in Colorado, his son said to him, "Dad, you took the same oath I took" -- it was "an oath to support and defend the Constitution," Pence recalled to Smith's investigators, sources said.

Raven123

(4,795 posts)
19. This is why Pence should never be elected to a leadership role
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 12:03 PM
Nov 2023

He cannot make a decision on his own. If as V.P. he didn’t understand his oath he was incompetent. Clearly he has to be told what to do. Goodness.

Kali

(55,006 posts)
21. a lot of these "christians" are like that
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 12:26 PM
Nov 2023

they need to be told what to believe, think, do. religion fills a need for these weak fools.

jaxexpat

(6,808 posts)
27. "....he has to be told what to do." Not a problem. That's what he married "mother" for.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 02:36 PM
Nov 2023

In 2016 there were two candidates from whom Progressives needed not feel threatened, Trump and Pence. One was as unlikely as the other to ever be elected to any position of consequence. Both held their own personal visions and interests above those of their constituents. Neither could do one good thing for the people of the United States because they were too far consumed their own delusions. One saw himself a faithful prophet of God's will on Earth. The other saw all things as his to have or destroy as he saw fit. Both brought out the worst from the weak persons who clung to them.

Pence is as guilty as Trump for all the social destruction thus far as well as that lingering on the horizon. "His friend" indeed! It's nauseating to hear it said or even to see it written.

As for the mealy-mouth retired judge Luttig, the one with the 'renowned conservative credentials'*, where has his wisdom been hiding for the last 7 years? Years when the obvious plot was plainly playing out before all our eyes. Too busy posing for his portrait?

*terms used when accuracy is inappropriate for mixed company

Raven123

(4,795 posts)
29. I agree with you.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 03:49 PM
Nov 2023

Yes, Pence acted correctly on January 6th, but clearly he struggled to get there. The fact that he struggled says it all.

PJMcK

(22,016 posts)
7. There's no way to know
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 09:55 AM
Nov 2023

Perhaps it was the Marine Corps that taught the son patriotism.

Having watched Pence even before 2016, this seems more plausible to me. Pence is a spineless toady. Remember, Pence was going to accede to Trump’s plan until his son’s comment.

Captain Zero

(6,792 posts)
24. And he called Dan Quayle too,
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 01:22 PM
Nov 2023

Who I think played a role in getting Judge Luttig weighing in on it all. Don't forget mother either. She really hates Trump. So between them ALL Jan 6 was not a successful fascist coup for Trump.

C Moon

(12,211 posts)
31. He probably thought he had a shot at being President.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 03:53 PM
Nov 2023

and didn't want to stir things up (in other words: spineless and selfish).

ificandream

(9,349 posts)
10. I give Pence credit for not following Trump's plans on Jan. 6, but not much else.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 10:45 AM
Nov 2023

He still showed how much of a slime he was after January 6 by not talking more boldly about it. History will credit him for what he did but also what he didn't have -- more honesty.

JohnnyRingo

(18,622 posts)
11. If this is a sample of the testimony against TFG, he's screwed.
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 10:48 AM
Nov 2023

He knew damn well he lost fair & square but tries to overthrow the US government.
And this is just the part of the iceberg above the waterline.

Jack Smith has done his homework and March will be when he begins constructing the guillotine.

[img][/img]

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
16. Playing devil's advocate, won't he just say he listened
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 11:21 AM
Nov 2023

To these people who said it was stolen? Isn't it a subjective thing? Who you chose to believe? Especially since it was through the lens of only a couple months after the election and not now.

Hate him with every ounce of my being. But just don't want to get my hopes up

JohnnyRingo

(18,622 posts)
33. If you came up with that defense....
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 05:42 PM
Nov 2023

...then most certainly his team has too.
Anything seems plausible to a jury if it's presented in the right way.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
36. Its what i dont get about pursuing the 1-6 conviction
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 08:14 PM
Nov 2023

Unless they secretly have a direct connection on Dingbat instructing them to storm the Cap. Assume there isn't one ( like a recording) or PBs and OKs would have presented it.

Just hope Jack Smith isn't all about knowing he's guilty as sin, like we all do, and not more about direct evidence

FakeNoose

(32,604 posts)
37. There are supposedly 100s of text messages from Mark Meadows
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 11:08 PM
Nov 2023

...that circulated on and before January 6th. Anyone who received or passed a text from Meadows would have assumed it came straight from Chump. And the testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson about the amount of time Meadows spent in conference with Chump throughout that day.

democrank

(11,091 posts)
22. In our attempt to take down cult leader Trump
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 12:43 PM
Nov 2023

I suppose any assistance Pence can give will be appreciated. Still, there’s something about Pence that makes me want to vomit. He rode on the Trump cult car way too long.

LudwigPastorius

(9,117 posts)
23. Trump..."almost pushed the country toward a 'constitutional crisis' ".
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 12:53 PM
Nov 2023

Yeah, almost...nothing much..

Just a lil' ole insurrection attempt.

riversedge

(70,126 posts)
25. @JoyceWhiteVance: " So much for the view that Pence was a principled man who did the right thing on January 6."
Tue Nov 28, 2023, 01:34 PM
Nov 2023

I agree with Joyce. Also--Pence should have raised the alarm. And Chuck Grassley--for one, knew about this also.

Maybe--just maybe Jan 6th could have been avoided!



So much for the view that Pence was a principled man who did the right thing on January 6.
Quote
Jonathan Karl
@jo



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