In rare announcement, US says guided missile sub has arrived in Middle East, a message of deterrence to adversaries

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: CNN Politics

Updated 10:26 PM EST, Sun November 5, 2023


CNN — In a rare announcement, the US military said a guided missile submarine has arrived in the Middle East, a message of deterrence clearly directed at regional adversaries as the Biden administration tries to avoid a broader conflict amid the Israel-Hamas war.

US Central Command said on social media Sunday that an Ohio-class submarine was entering its area of responsibility. A picture posted with the announcement appeared to show the sub in the Suez Canal northeast of Cairo.

The social media post did not name the sub, but the US Navy has four Ohio-class guided missile submarines, or SSGNs, which are former ballistic missile subs converted to fire Tomahawk cruise missiles rather than nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles.

Each SSGN can carry 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles, 50% more than US guided-missile destroyers pack and almost four times what the US Navy’s newest attack subs are armed with. Each Tomahawk can carry up to a 1,000-pound high-explosive warhead.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/05/politics/us-missile-submarine-middle-east/index.html

[getagrip_already]

1. just a question, but don't crrier groups already have subs in their fleet?

Aren't subs already a part of any us aircraft carrier fleet? We don't send those things out with two rubber duckies and a sunfish to keep them company.

So this would be symbolic more than substantive. We already have enough punch in two aircraft carrier groups to inflict serious damage to even iran if they get irrational.

Plus, who would know if we did or didn't send one.

[BumRushDaShow]

2. I had done some posts when they first announced the strike groups assigned

and I don't recall them mentioning a sub. E.g., the Gerald Ford group - https://www.centcom.mil/MEDIA/PRESS-RELEASES/Press-Release-View/Article/3552801/uss-gerald-r-ford-carrier-strike-group-arrives-in-the-eastern-mediterranean-sea/

[IronLionZion]

4. They normally keep sub movements secret

this is a notable exception.

[Shipwack]

7. They had no choice; it transited the Suez Canal.

Every nation with a spy satellite, plus their friends, know an Ohio type boat went through. Not to mention eyes/cameras on the ground.

Now which boat that is is a more interesting question. The official photo released didn't have enough detail, and the Pentagon purposefully didn't say... 🤔

Agreed, though, it is an exception. Probably there to raise the stakes a bit more.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

20. If we send a sub through the Suez canal, it's hard to keep it a secret.

I'm surprised they didn't send it around Africa's cape of Good Hope, just to maintain secrecy. I guess speed was a priority.

[IronLionZion]

21. Ohio class are the largest subs in the US Navy

so it would definitely be noticed in the Suez canal. And they want it to be noticed.

[Shipwack]

8. They don't always list the subs publically...

… but they’re there, guaranteed.

It’s possible that several different boats have escorted them at different times. The documents that keep track of that are TS and don’t get passed around, except maybe at Mar a Lago…

[Shipwack]

6. A couple of good points...

Former submariner here, though I've been retired for a while...

Yes, carriers tend to have a couple of fast attack subs with them. These are smaller than the Ohio class mentioned, and have a different mission. They are quieter and designed to hunt other submarines, and surface ships. They are there to keep other subs away from the carrier group.

Yes, it's partly symbolic, though useful in different ways than a carrier group. I don't know what ships are with the carriers, but odds are the way they have to get ordnance to a target is sending planes in the air. Said planes would have to get fairly close to what they intend to destroy to do that. Close is relative; they would still be many miles from land, but possibly in range of missiles.

That sub, though... I forget what open source information sites say, but if that sub is an SSGN type (which it most likely is), it can rapidly fire off about a hundred Tomahawk missiles within a very short time span. I -think- (though am not sure) that is more than the entire carrier group can fire. Maybe the group can fire more over a longer period of time, since surface ships have more room for reloads.

It is a show of force, at the very least. Also, they get data on how to transit a big sub to that area under somewhat peaceful conditions. Good to learn these things now.

[IronLionZion]

3. Good luck with the deterrence

Not sure Iran or their proxies in the area are feeling too deterred these days.

[Shipwack]

9. I don't disagree...

While Hamas doesn’t care, it might be a message intended for other nations that might be contemplating joining in the attack against Israel…

[Chainfire]

5. Yea, lets rattle the sabers a little more.

[Shipwack]

10. The CNN headline is slightly misleading...

Not the OP’s fault, and I know that LBN requires the article’s actual headline.

Unless there has been an update from the Pentagon, they never said what kind of submarine is there now, let alone a name. All they said was “an Ohio class submarine”, and a low detail photo.

Some Ohio class are SSGNs and carry lots of Tomahawk missiles. Some of these sometimes carry SEAL teams and specialize in those kind of missions. Some carry ballistic missiles that are capable of being armed with nukes. The Powers That Be want to keep people guessing a while longer.

I doubt it’s carrying nukes, though; those are way too valuable to put in such a high risk area.

That’s my 3 cents.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. In the OP article excerpts is this -

US Central Command said on social media Sunday that an Ohio-class submarine was entering its area of responsibility. A picture posted with the announcement appeared to show the sub in the Suez Canal northeast of Cairo.

Here is what they are referencing (tweet/X from the U.S. Central Command account) -

Link to tweet

U.S. Central Command
@CENTCOM
·
Follow
On November 5, 2023, an Ohio-class submarine arrived in the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility.
Image
4:00 PM · Nov 5, 2023

And the headline basically indicates that this class carries "guided missiles" (which they can).

All of this is -

[Shipwack]

13. We're both mostly right...

All CNN has is the tweet from CENTCOM. That tweet doesn’t say what kind of Ohio class sub transited. Only the 4 converted Ohio boats carry Tomahawks. The rest carry ballistic (potentially nuclear armed) sea launched ballistic missiles (and torpedoes).

CNN made an assumption not supported by the tweet. Now granted, it probably is an SSGN.

Im probably bring pendantic. Maybe too much caffeine…

I do disagree that it’s merely saber rattling, though. I think it’s more of a warning to other countries not to launch missiles into Israel. They might have some good anti-air defenses, but they can’t do anything against a ripple launch of Tomahawks.

Hopefully they get the memo. :/

[sl8]

14. Business Insider says they've confirmed that it's an SSGN, not an SSBN

https://www.businessinsider.com/navy-ohio-class-ballistic-submarine-arrived-in-mediterranean-israel-gaza-2023-11

"Although they declined to name the vessel, a Navy spokesperson told Insider it is a guided-missile sub (SSGN), not a ballistic-missile sub (SSBN), which most of the Ohio-class subs are. The apparent dry deck shelter used for special operations purposes is a giveaway though, as the Ohio-class SSGNs carry that."

[Shipwack]

17. Thank you for the update! nt

[BumRushDaShow]

19. Right now, I need some of your caffeine!

I think this is why this happened though (in addition to the saber-rattling for "public consumption" ) - https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143154771

[Seeking Serenity]

12. Yay. There's a fire over there dangerously close to getting out of hand

So let's add some more tinder.

Yay. Because we love/desire/CRAVE war.

[EX500rider]

16. I guess it depends on whether or not you think strong US forces in the area...

...would be a deterrent to Iran & Hezbollah, obviously Biden thinks so and so do I.

[jgmiller]

15. While the Centcom statement doesn't say an SSGN

It's pretty much 100% that it is. Ohio class subs that launch nukes don't go into shallow waters like the med would be, they go deep and stay there and go very slow so they are almost impossible to detect. Their torpedoes are intended for self defense and their only offensive weapon can travel about 6,500 miles so they have no reason to get close to the action. BTW if they do fire a torpedo it's because their mission has already failed and they've been detected in an actual war situation.

[Permanut]

18. Anthony Pratt can clarify all the details.