Federal prosecutors argue against delaying Trump gag order and oppose effort to subpoena 'missing' Jan. 6 records

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: NBC News

Oct. 25, 2023, 9:25 PM EDT / Updated Oct. 25, 2023, 11:17 PM EDT


Federal prosecutors filed a flurry of motions Wednesday night in the election interference case against Donald Trump, arguing against the former president's efforts to extend a pause on a gag order and his attempts to subpoena what he claims are "missing" House Jan. 6 committee records.

In one of the filings, special counsel Jack Smith’s office said it opposed extending a freeze on the gag order U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan of Washington, D.C., initially imposed on Trump. She temporarily lifted the gag order last week to give the parties more time to brief her on Trump's request to keep the order on hold while he appeals it.

Prosecutors argued Wednesday that Trump “has failed to show either a substantial likelihood of success on the merits, or that the public interest weighs in favor of a stay.” They highlighted Trump’s “prejudicial and threatening” posts on Truth Social shortly after ABC News cited multiple sources saying former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows had testified in the case in exchange for an immunity deal.

In one post, Trump wrote: “Some people would make that deal, but they are weaklings and cowards, and so bad for the future our Failing Nation. I don’t think that Mark Meadows is one of them, but who really knows?” Prosecutors argued that Trump was “targeting a known witness in this case in an attempt to influence and intimidate him” and requested that the stay on the gag order be lifted and modified to protect witnesses from attacks.

Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/prosecutors-call-trumps-jan-6-committee-subpoena-efforts-fishing-exped-rcna122119

[EndlessWire]

1. Several experts are saying

that Trump's postings, having been timed to coincide with the lifting of the gag order, to get them in this protected window, are still violations of the original release orders. Under 18 USC 1512, Tampering With a Witness, Victim, or Informant, Trump has exposed himself to being tossed in jail with new charges. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1512

The questions I have is, what are they waiting for? I get that the powers that be want to prosecute him and complete their trials where a jury finds him guilty, which is much harder to overturn than a technical violation, but this guy is desperate to have a member of his base do something rotten. He's a menace, and someone has to toss him in jail pending trial.

I think they are just waiting for something awful to happen. But, connecting him to it will be a whole new ballgame. One of these Prosecutors has to motion the Judge to incarcerate Trump. I think it was Judge Chutkan that said she would do it without a motion, if necessary. So, I think that here is Jack, informing her of a circumstance that gives her the necessary hook to arrest Trump. But, will she? Maybe Trump's posts are not strong enough?

Trump is making a mockery of the structure and function of our judicial system. You or I would be languishing in a jail cell pending trial, while Trump is out there committing even more crimes in his quest to get free.

[BumRushDaShow]

2. "The questions I have is, what are they waiting for?"

I had posted an answer to a similar question like you asked (in another thread awhile ago), to include a chronology of a comparable case that is currently in trial (have been digging around for the post because even with Advanced search, it gives me a 504 error as IMHO, Google's search was broken this past year ). But here was the end result of that case of violating bail terms - https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143113492

In summary - After Bankman-Fried had been arrested I think back in December 2022, he actively violated his bail conditions starting around February of this year (2023) and after multiple similar violations through the spring, the judge had had enough and 6 months after the initial infraction (basically contacting a witness), which continued on and off including media interviews about her, in violation of the conditions (where they even argued about how to restrict computer access), his bail was revoked and he was hauled off to jail until his trial.

I.e., it took 6 months.

Bottom line, unless a defendant hauls off and commits some violent act or attempts to flee, a judge is not going to start off with the most serious remedy (prison) for a bail infraction. They will issue increasingly serious warnings and other punishments before doing that option.

[EndlessWire]

4. Thank you for your response.

I get that. But at some point, it could be too late. I think, for instance, that Judge Engoran started the fines too low. Monetary fines have no meaning for Trump, even though he appears to have less money. He's just using the other guy's money, although he hasn't paid yet.

This, IMO, seems to be much more than a bail infraction, but a breach of 18 USC 1512, some kind of crime. While we are busy fining the guy, he's busy trying to intimidate witnesses. That can affect the outcomes of the trials.

I am so utterly sick of Trump and all the GOP crap that goes with him. Nothing, nothing on G-d's green Earth will prevent me in 2024 from voting against every last one of the cancerous rotten Republican rat weasels that follow this Orange Turd.

[BumRushDaShow]

10. I think there are standard (per past practice) fines that escalate with each infraction

You go too high at the beginning and you risk an appeal that could result in the case thrown out at that higher level or if you are lucky, it gets sent back to that judge instead to try again, and complete the adjudication of it.

I get how many are frustrated as hell but this "escalation of punishment" thing is not just a judicial practice, but is typical for anyone who has been a supervisor (at least "white collar" ), as it is taught this when it comes to disciplining an employee/direct-report in order to achieve the desired effect (correction of the aberrant behavior) and succeed at sustaining that decision upon a legal appeal.

[Novara]

3. "I think they are just waiting for something awful to happen."

No.

They are being overly cautious as to not have the case overturned on appeal. So they're handling P01135809 with delicacy - despite their statements that he's no more special than any other criminal defendant - so they can show restraint on their part and a clear escalation on his part during appeal. They're making the case as appeal-proof as they can.

I get it. I want to see him locked up with no access to the media. But we're not there yet. If he keeps pushing it, we'll get there, but the judges have to show that they warned him several times and he continues to flout their orders before they can resort to harsher punishment.

[EndlessWire]

5. Okay.

Judge Engoran's fraud trial (it is hard to keep every one of these trials separate without a flow sheet!) is supposed to be over on Friday, December 22, 2023. Even if he keeps doubling the fines, it won't be enough to shut Trump up. And Trump can reference a different trial, thus threatening all concerned with his doublespeak.

So, it will be up to Judge Chutkan to do something. I just hope that nothing happens. I respect the rule of law and definitely want to see Trump tell his lies to a jury, but I don't want him to weasel out by getting some innocent person killed. We have to fight these fascist bastards, and one way is to see that justice prevails.

[Novara]

6. There's no rule that each violation means a doubling of fines.

The next one could end up with jail. It's up to the judge.

He didn't have to be in court for his NY trial. He chose to be there to try and intimidate Cohen during his testimony. So think of it this way: he's digging his own grave.

He's likely got a false sense of security because these are just fines that someone else will pay. So that false sense of security will lead him to continuing to ignore the gag order. He's likely to end up in jail. He can't keep his stupid mouth shut but he thinks he's getting away with it. Until one of these judges puts a stop to it.

And maybe it will be Chutkan: Special counsel urges judge to crack down further on Trump’s comments

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. Jack Smith is pointing at the conditions of release

From the Washington Post coverage:

Notably, the filing urged Chutkan to “modify the defendant’s conditions of release by making compliance with the Order a condition or by clarifying that the existing condition barring communication with witnesses about the facts of the case includes indirect messages to witnesses made publicly on social media or in speeches.”

Such a modification, the prosecutors argue, would give Chutkan “compliance measures available under 18 U.S.C. § 3148 in addition to those available as a contempt penalty for violating the Order.” The compliance measures listed in that part of the law are “a revocation of release, an order of detention, and a prosecution for contempt of court.”

“Otherwise, without the Court’s intervention, the defendant will continue to threaten the integrity of these proceedings and put trial participants at risk,” the 32-page filing argues.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/25/special-counsel-trump-trial-comments-jail/

[riversedge]

8. Special counsel Jack Smith is urging a federal judge to reinstate a gag order on Donald Trump,

Special counsel urges judge to reimpose Trump’s federal gag order

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/25/special-counsel-trump-federal-gag-order-00123676

Prosecutors say Trump’s recent verbal attacks show he’s a threat to D.C. proceedings — and the safety of witnesses.
Donald Trump waits for the continuation of his civil business fraud trial at New York Supreme Court in New York.

The filing represents the starkest case yet painted by federal prosecutors that Donald Trump poses an ongoing threat to witnesses, senior government officials and the justice system as a whole. | Spencer Platt/AP

By Kyle Cheney and Josh Gerstein

10/25/2023 09:54 PM EDT

Special counsel Jack Smith is urging a federal judge to reinstate a gag order on Donald Trump, arguing that the former president has used a brief reprieve from the restrictions to pressure and attack witnesses like his former chief of staff Mark Meadows.

The 32-page filing on Wednesday night is a remarkable portrayal of a former president as an active danger who must be restricted by a court to not only protect the integrity of the upcoming trial but also the physical safety of government witnesses.

U.S. District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan, who is presiding over Trump’s federal criminal case on charges related to his efforts to subvert the 2020 election, imposed the gag order last week, only to pause it a few days later at Trump’s request after he filed an appeal. As soon as it was paused, Trump immediately unleashed a torrent of public invective that would have violated the order if it were in effect, the special counsel’s team argued in the new brief.

“The defendant has returned to the very sort of targeting that the Order prohibits, including attempting to intimidate and influence foreseeable witnesses, and commenting on the substance of their testimony,” senior assistant special counsels Molly Gaston and Thomas Windom wrote.......................

[republianmushroom]

9. Time to stop the coddling.

33 months and counting