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speak easy

(9,338 posts)
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 06:11 PM Oct 2022

Trains Resume On Crimea Bridge Hit By Blast: Russian Operator

Source: AFP / Barrons

Rail traffic on a bridge linking Crimea to the Russian mainland resumed after a blast damaged the structure on Saturday, its operator said in a statement.

Grand Service Express, which operates services between Crimea and Russia, said two trains left the peninsula in the early evening for Moscow and Saint Petersburg.

"The trains will pass over the Crimean bridge," the company said on Telegram.

Read more: https://www.barrons.com/articles/trains-resume-on-crimea-bridge-hit-by-blast-russian-operator-01665243607

58 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Trains Resume On Crimea Bridge Hit By Blast: Russian Operator (Original Post) speak easy Oct 2022 OP
How could Rebl2 Oct 2022 #1
I rather doubt that safe is a criteria Metaphorical Oct 2022 #2
Exactly. speak easy Oct 2022 #3
True Rebl2 Oct 2022 #21
There are two tracks parallel; only one burned Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2022 #22
I read reports stating the same but blue-wave Oct 2022 #4
If this had happened in the EU / U.S. speak easy Oct 2022 #5
That does not change the fact that blue-wave Oct 2022 #7
'you cannot run train cars. ... over weakened rails' speak easy Oct 2022 #8
You can do it. Once. COL Mustard Oct 2022 #43
Catch 22 speak easy Oct 2022 #44
This turned out to be sabotage but still..... COL Mustard Oct 2022 #45
Milo !! speak easy Oct 2022 #46
There are two tracks parallel; only one burned. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2022 #28
Depends on how close the second set is to the first Lithos Oct 2022 #33
Yes. DenaliDemocrat Oct 2022 #58
Bargain basement cheap-yep Rebl2 Oct 2022 #31
Video. You can see the burn damage at the side Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2022 #24
Well then, I will wait blue-wave Oct 2022 #26
my first thought too SouthernDem4ever Oct 2022 #41
Maybe they are testing with this first BumRushDaShow Oct 2022 #6
I'm surprised at you speak easy Oct 2022 #11
Standard procedure BumRushDaShow Oct 2022 #13
Pardon me for questioning your expertise, speak easy Oct 2022 #14
That was a loaner from the UK BumRushDaShow Oct 2022 #16
(sigh) When will the Brit's ever learn? speak easy Oct 2022 #18
chuckle riversedge Oct 2022 #19
Hey Thomas always just wanted to "be a useful engine"....Sir Toppem Hat was the problem. And Diesel Evolve Dammit Oct 2022 #25
I hope Patron sneezes with a big load on the bridge SheltieLover Oct 2022 #38
Excellent! COL Mustard Oct 2022 #40
DON'T DO IT, THOMAS!!! orangecrush Oct 2022 #55
That's one way of playing Russian Roulette. William769 Oct 2022 #9
The Russian way to check for structural damage Tomconroy Oct 2022 #10
So hit'em again! Grins Oct 2022 #12
I'll believe it when I see independent video of it. Grokenstein Oct 2022 #15
To quote an old football cheer, "Hit 'em again, harder, harder". sinkingfeeling Oct 2022 #17
And every time Russia bets against Ukraine hitting harder ... speak easy Oct 2022 #20
I am a civil enginer with experience in concrete design. flashman13 Oct 2022 #23
I've seen video show cars driving through, but says there is a limit of 10 per half hour Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2022 #27
ty for your post! speak easy Oct 2022 #37
Ty for sharing! SheltieLover Oct 2022 #39
A small bridge on I75 in Florida had to be rebuilt because of high heat(fire) ornotna Oct 2022 #47
This ain't gonna end well. n/t TygrBright Oct 2022 #29
I wouldn't want to be in any train across that particular section Warpy Oct 2022 #30
'The concrete might look fine, but it's not.' speak easy Oct 2022 #36
I'm not a CE, so thanks for directing me to that post Warpy Oct 2022 #48
Putin should be in the driver's compartment of the first train to NCjack Oct 2022 #42
With a gun pointed at their head! WVreaper Oct 2022 #32
A good enginner would Smackdown2019 Oct 2022 #57
He said two trains left Crimea headed toward the bridge Danascot Oct 2022 #34
Then I would think about tomorrow "look out below"!! G2theD Oct 2022 #35
Hit it again, Ukraine. roamer65 Oct 2022 #49
Are the trains full weight? Turbineguy Oct 2022 #50
Thomas had never seen such BS before! Olestro Oct 2022 #51
It has to end with a graphics file extension like .jpg .gif .bmp, etc. Gore1FL Oct 2022 #52
You have to use Duck Duck Go orangecrush Oct 2022 #54
Sounds like bullshit orangecrush Oct 2022 #53
No worries. The bridge has been pencil-whipped into perfect shape. Girard442 Oct 2022 #56

speak easy

(9,338 posts)
3. Exactly.
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 06:27 PM
Oct 2022

How many trains have they run over the track before sending passengers? one?

The only thing that is certain is that if anything happens, they will blame Ukraine.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,052 posts)
22. There are two tracks parallel; only one burned
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 08:26 PM
Oct 2022

Similarly with the roadway where only one half was totally blocked.

blue-wave

(4,369 posts)
4. I read reports stating the same but
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 06:28 PM
Oct 2022

there were warnings posted that the info. was not confirmed. I question the validity of this claim. It could be more Russian lies. If you look at the destruction of the rail bridge and the train cars on it, removing the damaged rail cars and repairing the actual rails and the structure they sit on would take more than a few hours.

speak easy

(9,338 posts)
5. If this had happened in the EU / U.S.
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 06:33 PM
Oct 2022

there would have been days of safety tests / assessments before they would allow a passenger train back on the tracks.

Russia - Life is bargain-basement cheap.

blue-wave

(4,369 posts)
7. That does not change the fact that
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 06:44 PM
Oct 2022

you cannot run train cars, especially with very heavy military loads, over weakened rails that are cracked from the heat, warped from the heat, or softened from the heat. It would be an immediate disaster. Just removing those rail cars, destroyed by fire and explosion or not, over a body of water with weakened or destroyed structure all around, would take longer than 20 hours, as the explosion happened 20 hours ago as I type this.

speak easy

(9,338 posts)
8. 'you cannot run train cars. ... over weakened rails'
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 06:47 PM
Oct 2022

Well ou can try. We will know if they have sent over passenger trains, soon enough.

COL Mustard

(5,937 posts)
43. You can do it. Once.
Sun Oct 9, 2022, 11:38 AM
Oct 2022

Just like any cargo can be airdropped...once.

That said, I wouldn't want to be on any train (or in any car) going over that bridge until it's had a real structural inspection!

Lithos

(26,404 posts)
33. Depends on how close the second set is to the first
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 10:58 PM
Oct 2022

Thermal expansion is a "thing" - even seasonal temperature variations cause problems from thermal expansion as it puts stress on the other components (ties, etc.)

DenaliDemocrat

(1,478 posts)
58. Yes.
Mon Oct 10, 2022, 07:31 AM
Oct 2022

I have seen what an intense fire does to rails - they warp. Also, the rebar and structural steel inside the concrete has likely been compromised.

However safety and Russian don’t belong in the same sentence.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,052 posts)
24. Video. You can see the burn damage at the side
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 08:29 PM
Oct 2022

There are two tracks (plus it seems a narrow gauge nested inside). Only one track burned.

Russian repair crews have sent the first test train across the damaged section of the Crimean Bridge. A dozen passenger trains are scheduled to follow tonight, Transport Ministry officials say. A remarkable feat, given the footage of the damage from just hours ago.





blue-wave

(4,369 posts)
26. Well then, I will wait
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 08:33 PM
Oct 2022

for the breaking news of the second attack on the bridge.

Slava Ukraini!! Heroyam Slava!!

speak easy

(9,338 posts)
14. Pardon me for questioning your expertise,
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 07:35 PM
Oct 2022

but that train does not look like to be a Soviet designed, Russian built engine to me - too modern and elegant. Is there another Philby hanging out in the UK perhaps? Troubling.

speak easy

(9,338 posts)
18. (sigh) When will the Brit's ever learn?
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 07:56 PM
Oct 2022

Of course the Russians are going to reverse engineer a tank engine. I'll bet there's a few of them chugging away in T-90s right now. Oh well, on with the show.

Grins

(7,243 posts)
12. So hit'em again!
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 07:21 PM
Oct 2022

And put out a friendly notice to Russians living in Crimea - it may be time to reconsider living there - and Ukraine will guarantee safe passage back to Russia.

Do it while you can.

Grokenstein

(5,728 posts)
15. I'll believe it when I see independent video of it.
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 07:36 PM
Oct 2022

And even then I'll pity the poor saps forced to drive 'em.

flashman13

(681 posts)
23. I am a civil enginer with experience in concrete design.
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 08:27 PM
Oct 2022

While the video quality isn't the best, I have been studying a fairly decent one of the railroad bridge in profile. There is a place where there was a very hot fire directly over one of the piers right at the joint of two bridge sections. I think, emphasizing less than great images, there appears to be structural damage at that point with some displacement downward. That bridge is concrete (cheaper than steel - go figure) made up of multiple longitudinal sections. Even if only the outer member is damaged, the bridge is compromised. At best they made a quickie inspection. I would not sign off on its usability without some serious testing.

In another video, a second set of pictures looking up at another pier, clearly shows, over a substantial area, that the outer layers of concrete has peeled off exposing the entire rebar grid. That's not a good sign. High heats can severely compromise concrete. Some of the earlier pictures show entire areas of the bridge ringed with flames. I would definitely advise that trains proceed very slowly over that entire damaged area.

Also, in another video, looking down the center line of the remaining road span, you can see that the outer edge of the structure has a large inward buckle. Depending whether other adjacent members are also buckled, that could be a sign of sever damage. More importantly, it appears that the bridge deck from which the picture was take has displaced vertically downward along its full width. I could be wrong here. Again the quality isn't great. But if there is that sort of significant displacement there is very serious damage which will significantly limit the usability of that span.

All in all, the bridges received significant damage. Someone got an extremely large bang for their buck. I don't believe a word of the truck bomb explosion theory. My guess is that it was a broadside hit from an anti-ship missile fired from a small boat. We already know the Ukrainians are very resourceful.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,052 posts)
27. I've seen video show cars driving through, but says there is a limit of 10 per half hour
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 08:33 PM
Oct 2022

My guess is that they will run it a bit for show, then close it for a few days to rebuild that part.

ornotna

(10,807 posts)
47. A small bridge on I75 in Florida had to be rebuilt because of high heat(fire)
Sun Oct 9, 2022, 01:52 PM
Oct 2022
https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1996/02/07/wreck-destroys-i-75-bridge/

A highway bridge was scorched by temperatures as high as 1,900 degrees _ the point at which glass melts, said Jesse Ortiz, a structural engineer with the Florida Department of Transportation.

"This is the worst bridge damage I've ever seen," he said. The foundation is weakened, the concrete has expanded and cracked, and the steel strands that support the highway's weight were stretched out.

He estimated repairs could take up to three months.


I don't see trains running on this bridge anytime soon.

Warpy

(111,389 posts)
30. I wouldn't want to be in any train across that particular section
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 09:26 PM
Oct 2022

because we all know that even a competent structural engineer will not risk telling the truth to the high command.

Concrete can begin to fail at a shockingly low number, 200C AFAIK. Jet fuel burns at 1030C and is the most likely fuel. Gasoline vapors are what burn and you wouldn't see the white hot burning liquid dripping down onto the concrete bridge supports. That concrete got cooked and eventually it will fail, quite possibly sooner rather than later. A few sections of rail might have been damaged.

I would not want to be on any train going over that bridge. The concrete might look fine, but it's not.

BBC has an interesting article and video, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63183404

Warpy

(111,389 posts)
48. I'm not a CE, so thanks for directing me to that post
Sun Oct 9, 2022, 01:53 PM
Oct 2022

What didn't look fine to me was the road bed, it's definitely lower in one section. A train is going to go into the sea if they try to use it as it is. I doubt any train engineer worthy of the title is going to make the trip without a gun to his head.

I think the announcement that the bridge is peachy fine is pure propaganda while they scramble to find a good land route to supply their southern troops. Since all land routes are within range of the Ukrainian forces, they're basically screwed without that bridge.

A real mystery is just what hit it. Military guys said it would take a Tomahawk or foreign equivalent to do that much damage, nothing else has the range plus payload, and there has been no word that anyone has supplied those to Ukraine. Whatever did the damage, it was doubly lucky (for Ukraine) that the train was stopped at a signal and was hauling something that burned as it spilled out (my guess is jet fuel. The train bridge is really the one that needed to be taken out. It's still standing, but just.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
42. Putin should be in the driver's compartment of the first train to
Sun Oct 9, 2022, 11:22 AM
Oct 2022

demonstrate that the bridge is functional.

The man just does not have leadership qualities.

WVreaper

(623 posts)
32. With a gun pointed at their head!
Sat Oct 8, 2022, 09:35 PM
Oct 2022

As per a previous post, the bridge is structurally compromised. Travel across at your own risk!

Smackdown2019

(1,191 posts)
57. A good enginner would
Sun Oct 9, 2022, 10:39 PM
Oct 2022

A good engineer with a some deadly reason to ones head, would craw at an 1 mile an hour and the jump from the train before it cross the bridge. The person with some deadly reason holding to anothers head would be smart and follow the engineer. At one mile an hour on the other side, someone could jump onto the train. Chances are the train won't make it......

Gore1FL

(21,159 posts)
52. It has to end with a graphics file extension like .jpg .gif .bmp, etc.
Sun Oct 9, 2022, 06:08 PM
Oct 2022

Then it' just the url.

Yours is a link to a google drive file which acts differently than DU is expecting.

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