Material on foreign nation's nuclear capabilities seized at Trump's Mar-a-Lago
Source: Washington Post
A document describing a foreign governments military defenses, including its nuclear capabilities, was found by FBI agents who searched former president Donald Trumps Mar-a-Lago residence and private club last month, according to people familiar with the matter, underscoring concerns among U.S. intelligence officials about classified material stashed in the Florida property.
Some of the seized documents detail top-secret U.S. operations so closely guarded that many senior national security officials are kept in the dark about them. Only the president, some members of his Cabinet or a near-Cabinet level official could authorize other government officials to know details of these special access programs, according to people familiar with the search, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sensitive details of an ongoing investigation.
Documents about such highly classified operations require special clearances on a need-to-know basis, not just top-secret clearance. Some special-access programs can have as few as a couple dozen government personnel authorized to know of an operations existence. Records that deal with such programs are kept under lock and key, almost always in a secure compartmented information facility, with a designated control officer to keep careful tabs on their location. But such documents were stored at Mar-a-Lago, with uncertain security, more than 18 months after Trump left the White House.
After months of trying, according to government court filings, the FBI has recovered more than 300 classified documents from Mar-a-Lago this year: 184 in a set of 15 boxes sent to the National Archives and Records Administration in January, 38 more handed over by a Trump lawyer to investigators in June, and more than 100 additional documents unearthed in a court-approved search on Aug. 8.
Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/06/trump-nuclear-documents/
No paywall link
Blue Owl
(50,557 posts)NullTuples
(6,017 posts)So, Ivanka and Jared, then?
Also, I'm thinking it was France. No real reason, just a guess.
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)yonder
(9,685 posts)Saudi's would probably pay well for that. Maybe they already have.
paleotn
(18,003 posts)We sometimes spy on our friends as well as our adversaries. Prudence demands it. And Israel has done the same to us for the same reason.
Ponietz
(3,065 posts)Involuntary extradition to Israel. Theres precedent.
James48
(4,444 posts)Donnys done deal.
DallasNE
(7,404 posts)With Israel being the nuclear country. Remember Trump already outed an Israeli spy.
NullTuples
(6,017 posts)Lasher
(27,664 posts)He couldn't pass the smell test for a security clearance, but TFG overrode them and gave him one anyway. His appetite for classified information knew no bounds. He kept asking for more.
ffr
(22,676 posts)comes to his side.
Meanwhile a nation can no longer sleep at night for fear of the secrets TFG STOLE!
Too fucking bad, America. Republicans don't give a shit about your lives.
Justice matters.
(6,955 posts)Nawh, gawd-chosen...
babylonsister
(171,107 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,925 posts)a few minutes ago.
babylonsister
(171,107 posts)Something's gotta give, seems untenable, but isn't it all.
BumRushDaShow
(129,925 posts)But then I think many of us expected this might have gone on with that administration after the 2016 election but I guess hoped that it wouldn't devolve to such a degree, and there would be a few with a clue who still cared about protecting the integrity of the nation. Some did but then they were "removed" and opportunistic loons were brought in.
babylonsister
(171,107 posts)don't know who could have predicted it yet it makes so much sense. I hesitate to be optimistic, but I will be anyway. Seems I have no other choice.
pandr32
(11,638 posts)TFG, and all his MAGAts have sunk so far beneath pond scum they are finding their way right through the core of the earth. With any luck they may come out again in N Korea.
BumRushDaShow
(129,925 posts)Novara
(5,870 posts)He's got to destroy other nations as well.
No other nations will ever trust us again ... and with good reason.
What was he going to do, use it as blackmail? Against an ally?
Jeebus fucking shit, man. Arrest the motherfucker now.
SergeStorms
(19,204 posts)He's going to hasten Armageddon one way or another, and that gets the god squad all wet and squishy.
Trump doesn't give a shit in his diapers about all that, he just wants to get his name in history books that only Democrats can read.
CrispyQ
(36,556 posts)BOSSHOG
(37,150 posts)paleotn
(18,003 posts)BOSSHOG
(37,150 posts)The essence of what she is delaying will trickle out. Hes touched your career judge and you will find out what he touches dies. You will live in infamy along with trump steaks.
Its like the Kansas Catholic Republican crime alliance scheduling a vote on an amendment during a primary election. What could possibly go wrong?
paleotn
(18,003 posts)I still can't believe she ruled as she did. Insanity given the gravity of what he had.
mn9driver
(4,429 posts)The precise capabilities of second tier nuclear powers are extremely closely held. Uncertainty is a big part of their nuclear deterrent.
Just imagine if Saudi Arabia knew exactly what Israels capability was. That might be worth a couple $billion to them.
prodigitalson
(2,465 posts)totally wouldn't surprise me.
AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)so that he would turn over nuclear technology and secrets:
https://www.fastcompany.com/90233994/how-a-secret-seychelles-meeting-signaled-the-uae-pull-in-trump-d-c
paleotn
(18,003 posts)OrangeJoe
(351 posts)hedda_foil
(16,376 posts)Strelnikov_
(7,772 posts)dalton99a
(81,683 posts)tinrobot
(10,927 posts)I can only imagine what the non-disclosed documents contain.
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)Wouldn't Putin like to know what we know about his nuclear capabilities?
Liberty Belle
(9,539 posts)gab13by13
(21,483 posts)but doesn't Cannon's stay hamper them?
Novara
(5,870 posts)They have enough on him now.
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)the FBI is going to have to do an extensive investigation starting with chain of custody of the documents. Judge Cannon could hamper their investigation.
I am not alone Novara, I welcome your post. Every time I post that DOJ should indict Trump I get blowback. Pretty soon it will be 60 days prior to the election which probably means that a Trump indictment can't happen for 3 or 4 months.
Trump should have been indicted the same day that DOJ found out he stole classified documents. Some of our murdered foreign assets may still be alive today.
Novara
(5,870 posts)Add more charges later, as warranted. But he can be arrested NOW for obstruction at least. Lock him up so he can't destroy another country as well as our own. Arrest him for stealing classified information. Arrest him for illegally having unsecured classified information and lying about it.
Just areest him. Add more charges later.
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)I have said the exact same thing. Today I posted that Thom Hartmann said that Trump needed to be arrested and I was nearly crucified.
HillbillyDaoist
(93 posts)Pretty obvious he has been a far more dangerous traitor than Ethel and Julius.
msfiddlestix
(7,288 posts)There are many precedents over my lifetime of 72 years of Prosecutors proceeding accordingly...
Investigations and separate charges continue and are prosecuted as warranted, either added or tried separately.
By the way, has Trump's appointed DNI, former Senator Ratcliff's name ever been mentioned in these findings to your knowledge?
Novara
(5,870 posts)For the sake of international relations we need to arrest him now, because it looks like America doesn't give a shit he had some other country's secret military information for a year and a half doing fuck knows what with it, and we're letting him walk free.
I posted it elsewhere but imagine if you're that country and you're watching America not take this threat to your country very seriously. At the very LEAST I hope Blinken is talking to this country NOW.
And no, I haven't heard Ratcliffe being talked about in relation to this at all.
msfiddlestix
(7,288 posts)I wouldn't want to be him, or see anyone else other than Blinken dealing with it.
I can't even begin to imagine how incredibly difficult the work of smoothing feathers and restoring confidences, putting out fires...
etc etc etc. just mind numbing to think about it.
onetexan
(13,079 posts)sprinkleeninow
(20,268 posts)Response to Novara (Reply #20)
paleotn This message was self-deleted by its author.
babylonsister
(171,107 posts)BumRushDaShow
(129,925 posts)So say if that is DOD''s property (info) or NSA's property (info), then they would be the ones to act (although they could request FBI assistance if needed to work as part of some kind of team). I don't know what the scope is of that Cannon order.
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)Former Pentagon special counsel Ryan Goodman said, "Hugely important for prosecution of Espionage Act. Many people are behind bars for far, far less."
"The doc with nuclear intelligence information also means we need our countrys full FBI etc resources to investigate, including tracking chain of custody, damage assessment, remediation. But
Judge Cannons order and injunction has thrown wrench into that," Goodman added. "Deeply unnerving."
BumRushDaShow
(129,925 posts)It's DOD (including the NSA which is under DOD), DOE, State Department, etc.
The FBI doesn't have "personal knowledge" of these topics of info but the owners of them do. They form "cross-cutting teams" in order to do this.
Watching Brennan right now on Alex Wagner's show describing this and how like when he as CIA Director, even he didn't even have access to certain things...
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)DOD can't go to the FBI and ask if they found fingerprints or DNA on the documents because of Cannon. Judge Cannon hampered this investigation. DOJ needs to go to the Appeals court and ask for an immediate injunction to Cannon's stay. This is BS, it involves national security.
BumRushDaShow
(129,925 posts)and anyone who works in the government either has a PIV (Personal Identity Verification) or a CaC (DOD's Common Access Card) and these have biometric and other PII (Personal Identifiable Information) on them burned into RF chips that are on those cards (which as a minimum includes an employee's or contractor's finger prints). So wherever anyone using a card goes, this is a record of it.
They have systems/logs to track who accessed what and when. THAT is what they and other agencies caught up in this, will need to investigate and compile and it's not something that the FBI would have access to - it would be given to the FBI by those affected agencies/departments. So while DOJ is deciding how to proceed, that is not stopping other agencies from doing what they need to do to gather the evidence they have.
All of this is still at the beginning of the evidence/data gathering...
Pas-de-Calais
(9,911 posts)Documents as this special viewer?
A past POTUS?
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)Trump may want to go to "Indeed" or Link'd in.
HighFired49
(351 posts)tishaLA
(14,176 posts)Imagine being one of the nations that shares intel with the US. The Five Eyes allies must be ready to strangle people.
Novara
(5,870 posts)Why should other nations ever trust the US?
Could another country arrest him for stealing their nuclear secrets?
LaMouffette
(2,042 posts)their cult leader has done.
It will have to be something "HUUUGE" to be able to cut through the constant bullshit coming at them from the GOP and rightwing media. It will have to be a videotape of Trump actually hand-delivering documents to Putin or the Saudi prince, with audio of them yucking it up over how they pulled off the most egregious security breach in the history of the US.
Even then, they'd probably accuse it of being a fake video.
durablend
(7,467 posts)Anything Hillary or Obama or Hunter Biden did was a million times worse.
LaMouffette
(2,042 posts)put them there to frame Trump, giving a new meaning to the phrase "planted evidence"!
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)"Trump's damage to our national security includes relationship damage with friendly countries we work with & rely on the gather intelligence," Vance posted to Twitter. "If they believe it's no longer safe to work with us, we are in a much less secure position and why wouldn't think that with this?
"Compromising sources and methods of collection leads to long-term damage to our security, compliments of the guy who blathered about making America great again," Vance added.
National security lawyer Bradley Moss said, "I have no idea what the Special Master is supposed to do with a document like this other than clear it for use by the FBI."
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)that the Washington Post reported there were military-related nuclear documents at Mar-el-Loco? Surely DOJ knew about this too?
DOJ fucked around too much. Just stop and think about this, if Trump had complied with the subpoena and returned all of the documents this investigation would be over and done with. That is treating Trump with kid gloves.
EarthFirst
(2,905 posts)This motherfu*ker is far too stupid to know which documents specifically needed to be lifted.
The more the gravity of this situation comes to light; the more Im convinced that someone was aiding him on the specifics
Someone tell me theres no way they away from this; right?
Right?
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)Who were the brains? Jared? Meadows probably too dumb? Putin probably.
I am going to say what I said earlier today, Arrest Trump.
crickets
(25,989 posts)rubbersole
(6,752 posts)Chaos in the fabric of American democracy/society is just a bonus.
Shipwack
(2,180 posts)Some of those (well, probably all, but Im talking about the most classified ones) had specific people who were supposed to safeguard them Im curious how Trump got to keep them.
Was it a willing accomplice that was hoping this could be kept quiet til payday/escape to another country? Or is it a case of some spineless cretin that folded like a cheap suit because it was the President? Ive met my fair share of the latter when I was in the Navy
prodigitalson
(2,465 posts)TeamProg
(6,335 posts)Timmy's in grade school and the teacher asked kids to raise their hands if they could come up with a sentence that included a participle and at least two adjectives.
Timmy quickly raised his hand and the teacher said 'Timmy, what did you come up with?'
"Last night at dinner my sister told us she was pregnant and my dad said, 'Beautiful, fucking beautiful'.
Beautiful, fucking beautiful Trumpy.
ificandream
(9,415 posts)Someone in this thread said Israel. I don't have any idea .... but I'll bet we'll know soon.
gab13by13
(21,483 posts)Wouldn't Russia like to know what we know about its nuclear capabilities?
ificandream
(9,415 posts)China is a more likely candidate, I think.
mcar
(42,452 posts)TeamProg
(6,335 posts)Liberty Belle
(9,539 posts)Putin's enemies wind up dead of Polonium poisoning or pushed out windows.
My bet is he either gave secrets to Russia on orders from Putin, or sold them to the Saudis.
Or Kushner took the docs and did so. If Kushner, it might be Iranian nuke secrets; he is Jewish so I doubt he'd sell out Israel but who knows how depraved his soul is.
TeamProg
(6,335 posts)"He'd be afraid to cross Putin by selling Russian nuke secrets to others."
Or to not sell and simply threaten to sell. Insurance against Putin blackmail.
Ponietz
(3,065 posts)AllaN01Bear
(18,711 posts)CaptainTruth
(6,616 posts)I'm referring to the "document describing a foreign governments military defenses, including its nuclear capabilities" referenced in the first paragraph.
The article doesn't say it was classified or top secret, it just mentions it & then goes on to talk about other apparently different documents in the 2nd & 3rd paragraphs, which is a common thing our media does. They don't know the actual status of the "document describing a foreign governments military defenses etc" but they want to whip up reader interest & make their story seem like a bigger deal than it really is by immediately following with "some of the seized documents detail top-secret U.S. operations so closely guarded that many senior national security officials are kept in the dark about them." By doing that a whole bunch of people will jump to the conclusion that the "document describing a foreign governments military defenses etc" was top secret & contained closely-guarded secrets, even though the article does not say that.
Read carefully, my friends.
BumRushDaShow
(129,925 posts)You need to read past the "1st paragraph".
It was in this last batch of government secrets, the people familiar with the matter said, that the information about a foreign governments nuclear-defense readiness was found. These people did not identify the foreign government in question, say where at Mar-a-Lago the document was found or offer additional details about one of the Justice Departments most sensitive national security investigations.
(snip)
A grand jury subpoena issued May 11 demanded the return of all documents or writings in the custody or control of Donald J. Trump and/or the Office of Donald J. Trump bearing classification markings, including Top Secret, and the lesser categories of Secret and Confidential.
The subpoena, issued to Trumps custodian of records, then listed more than two dozen sub-classifications of documents, including S/FRD, an acronym for Formerly Restricted Data, which is reserved for information that relates primarily to the military use of nuclear weapons. Despite the formerly in the title, the term does not mean the information is no longer classified.
(snip)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/06/trump-nuclear-documents/
MSNBC concluded a segment including Phil Rucker from WaPo as part of a panel, who was just talking about this indicating that this specific piece of info was "so secret" that it was always kept under lock and key and very few people had access. It was noted that info classified as S/FRD covers that "nuclear weapons" category.
PART 1045 - NUCLEAR CLASSIFICATION AND DECLASSIFICATION
Authority:
42 U.S.C. 2011; E.O. 13526, 75 FR 705, 3 CFR 2010 Comp., pp. 298-327.
Source:
83 FR 66007, Dec. 21, 2018, unless otherwise noted.
(snip)
§ 1045.30 What definitions apply to this part?
(snip)
Formerly Restricted Data (FRD) means classified information removed from the RD category under the AEA (section 142(d)), after DOE and DoD jointly determine it is related primarily to the military utilization of nuclear weapons and that the information can be adequately protected in a manner similar to NSI.
(snip)
§ 1045.35 What acronyms are commonly used in this part?
(snip)
S - Secret
(snip)
§ 1045.140 How is matter containing RD, FRD, or TFNI marked?
FORMERLY RESTRICTED DATA
Unauthorized disclosure subject to administrative and criminal sanctions. Handle as RESTRICTED DATA in foreign dissemination. Section 144b, Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended.
(snip)
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-10/chapter-X/part-1045
CaptainTruth
(6,616 posts)From your excerpt above:
"It was in this last batch of government secrets, the people familiar with the matter said, that the information about a foreign governments nuclear-defense readiness was found."
So, we know that in a "batch of government secrets"... "information about a foreign governments nuclear-defense readiness was found."
Was that "information about a foreign governments nuclear-defense readiness" secret or classified? It doesn't say. We know from other reporting (multiple reputable sources) that documents of different classification levels were mixed together in a haphazard way with material that was not classified. And there's the source of uncertainty.
Because of the way classified & unclassified information was mixed together we cannot conclude with a high degree of confidence that any specific information (likely on its own separate document, another detail we don't know) was secret or classified just because it was found in a "batch of government secrets." The article simply does not say if it's classified, secret, unclassified, whatever. If it was secret the writers should have communicated that clearly & said "classified information about a foreign governments nuclear-defense readiness" or "top-secret information about a foreign governments nuclear-defense readiness," but they didn't say that, & it makes me wonder why.
Please don't think I'm defending TFG on this, I'm not, I just want to know how sensitive that information was, & this article doesn't tell us. Maybe this is just another case of more sloppy/imprecise reporting from our media, Lord knows there's a lot of it.
Grins
(7,257 posts)As bad as this is - its actually WORSE!!!
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)LudwigPastorius
(9,249 posts)Bayard
(22,219 posts)They only found nuke documents for one country. So, how many others were in those empty folders?
I just can't believe this deranged individual was allowed access for 4 years. He was a menace from Day 1.
Richard D
(8,813 posts). . . is that if these files are in shitface's possession, then they are not available to legitimate officials who may need the information contained in the files.
Brainfodder
(6,423 posts)Novara
(5,870 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2022, 08:10 AM - Edit history (1)
Think about it: he's got the nuclear secrets of some country floating around an unsecured golf club. No other country will trust us any more. And why should they? We let someone like THAT fuck up THEIR classified information?
I'm wondering if that country can arrest him for stealing and mishandling their classified information, because we sure seem loath to do it here.
CrispyQ
(36,556 posts)Novara
(5,870 posts)... and so egregiously mishandled, and you have no idea who has seen it, who has had access to it, who might be using it right now. Imagine the panic thinking that an enemy now has information on your military capabilities and schemes, your nuclear capabilities, etc. The security of your nation is compromised.
Then imagine watching as the thief who fucked over your country is still free to keep compromising your military (because he may have made copies), and he's even free to keep having his hate rallies. He's free to keep selling your information. He's laughing because he can do whatever he wants with your country's information and no one is stopping him.
Imagine watching as America - who may even be an ally - is doing nothing about your military secrets being sold and exposed to fuck knows who all.
It's not just that other countries no longer have reason to trust us because this motherfucker exposed their secrets, it's that America evidently doesn't give a shit about your country because they are doing nothing about this.
For the sake of international relations alone, this motherfucker needs to be arrested NOW. For the sake of WORLD PEACE AND SECURITY he needs to be arrested NOW.
crickets
(25,989 posts)My first reaction was that he should have been arrested the same day the search warrant was served, especially when the gravity of the situation was underscored by having to go get new people with high enough clearance to handle the level of classification found on some of the documents.
Then I thought, maybe DOJ is right. Wait until after the elections, so MAGA nuts have one less bone to wave around in the air with rage at the so-called injustice of it all. In the meantime they can go through everything and have a tight case ready to go as soon as the vote counts are in.
After this latest bombshell, I don't think waiting another moment is safe. What must our allies think? We are intelligence pariahs now, and rightly so. On their behalf (especially the country whose nuclear secrets were exposed) and for the sake of our own national security, he needs to be locked up yesterday.
The lack of clippings from November to January is another red flag. He kept clippings about himself for everything, all the time, we all know he did. He can't himself with an ego that big. So, where are they? Where are the documents that were tucked in with them?
At the very least, he should be sitting in an uncomfortable chair in an over-brightly lit room at this moment answering questions. If he chooses to "Fifth!" his way out of answering them, then perhaps he should take a vacation in a very secure little room while others fill in the details or until his memory improves.
Novara
(5,870 posts)Absolutely. This is a major international intelligence issue and we as a country can't afford not to take action immediately. Our international relations will be toast if it looks like we don't give a shit about stolen nuclear secrets of other countries, especially if they may be allies.
Jeebus, fuck, this isn't that hard.
msfiddlestix
(7,288 posts)Do you know if (former Seantor) TRumps appointed DNI Ratcliff mentioned in any of these findings?
BumRushDaShow
(129,925 posts)who preceded Ratcliffe.
I wouldn't be surprised if stuff has been squirreled away from near day-one.
msfiddlestix
(7,288 posts)always seemed to be a traitor to me just as a Senator. Then when he was appointed to DNI, i nearly had a panic attack with just this sort of thing in mind.