Breaking CNN: Rudy Giuliani oversaw fake electors plot in 7 states

[garybeck]

Source: CNN

Washington (CNN)Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani, oversaw efforts in December 2020 to put forward illegitimate electors from seven states that Trump lost, according to three sources with direct knowledge of the scheme.

The sources said members of former President Donald Trump's campaign team were far more involved than previously known in the plan, a core tenet of the broader plot to overturn President Joe Biden's victory when Congress counted the electoral votes on January 6.
Giuliani and his allies coordinated the nuts-and-bolts of the process on a state-by-state level, the sources told CNN. One source said there were multiple planning calls between Trump campaign officials and GOP state operatives, and that Giuliani participated in at least one call. The source also said the Trump campaign lined up supporters to fill elector slots, secured meeting rooms in statehouses for the fake electors to meet on December 14, 2020, and circulated drafts of fake certificates that were ultimately sent to the National Archives.


Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/20/politics/trump-campaign-officials-rudy-giuliani-fake-electors/index.html

---

Now if they can put the pressure on him, he will probably squeal about who's idea it was.

[Walleye]

1. If there isn't a law against this we should get busy and pass one

[colorado_ufo]

38. I think conspiracy to commit fraud should about cover it.

[Walleye]

39. Sounds pretty solid to me

[TomSlick]

43. If submitting the fraudulent reports of the non-electors was a crime, and it certainly was,

Rudy was guilty of conspiracy to commit the crimes.

[Walleye]

44. I hope they throw the book at him

[L. Coyote]

50. I hope he represents himself.

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than eight years, or both.

[70sEraVet]

71. I don't know if he will represent himself, but I DO know who won't pay for Rudy's lawyer.

[L. Coyote]

72. Rudy should flip on #FailedCoupGuy.

Link to tweet

[The_Counsel]

74. I'm Thinking Mail Fraud Should Be Tacked onto the litany of Potential Federal Charges

Sending fraudulent material across state borders makes it a federal offense, methinks...

[Walleye]

75. Definitely.

[Evolve Dammit]

2. Well bless his little dark, corrupt heart. And to think we once admired you. after 9-11. Fooled us.

[NCjack]

45. Fooled me. I thought that he was lazy. Instead, he was a busy bee.

[Evolve Dammit]

57. I knew he was busy, just not a criminal. Like your tag line!

[niyad]

47. I was not one of them. I despised the jerk from the moment he announced, at a

press conference, that he was separating from wife #2, Donna Hanover. That was how she found out. And, if I remember correctly, he imoved his mistress into Gracie Mansion. And that was way before noun/verb/9/11, and all the crookedstuff he and kerik got up to.

So none of this surprises me.

[Evolve Dammit]

55. most America didn't know any of that. I wish we had. MSM builds up and tears down. He was built up.

[The_Counsel]

76. Correct. Don and Rudy Are Two Peas in a Pod That Way.

Both were presented to America at large as something they're not.

Meanwhile the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area know them for what they are: Crooked nuts.

There's a reason why Trump lost NY, NJ and CT by an average of 13 points in '16 and SEVENTEEN in '20. Those who know him best can't stand him. It would have been the same for Rudy if he were the nominee....

[Fiendish Thingy]

3. Somebody's going to jail...nt

[PSPS]

5. Not here, there isn't. They'll all skate.

[paleotn]

7. Ugh.

Going through life without an once of optimism must really suck.

[Fullduplexxx]

11. Has there been any indication that anyone will be arrested?

And I'm not talking about the little fish

[paleotn]

13. Look up the Watergate timeline.

Patience, grasshopper.

[monkeyman1]

46. this is the yr. people want justice against the republican's ! people want republican's jailed !!

we are sick of the fucking media , sick of republican bull -shit , sick of hearing the name "TRUMP " , sick of people die 'n because of a sick pos wanted re-elected to stay out prison ! let's make this the year that the " republican Taliban is a forgotten thing" !

[dem4decades]

15. There's a difference between realism and optimism. Preet was just on a podcast and he said

he's seen no evidence of DOJ investigating the higher command responsible for the Capitol attack.

Does Preet meet the standards of a person who would recognize an investigation?

[paleotn]

16. I haven't seen it, so it must not EXIST!!!!!!!!

Oh, please.

I'm sure, when the time is right, Justice will brief you all. Tinge of arrogance there, don't ya think?

[dem4decades]

21. Do you know who Preet is? So you know better than him if a federal investigation is underway?

Oh please, do tell me why?

[paleotn]

23. Wholly crap! He's an all knowing GOD!!!!!!

[garybeck]

36. the state investigation in MI was handed over to the feds.

that's all you need to know.

also, before the Oath Keepers were indicted there was zero indication of an investigation. that is how they operate.

so regardless of who it is, Preet or Santa Claus, anyone who thinks there is or isn't an investigation, we shouldn't pay much attention to their opinion.

[garybeck]

37. i don't care what Preet says

it's one person's view/opinion and there are many others who thing otherwise, plus the MO of the justice department is not to comment, leak or give indications of investigations.

[dem4decades]

42. So you think the DOJ is the only one that leaks? Has anybody fought a subpoena yet?

I guess they're all merrily going into FBI interviews to spill their guts voluntarily.

[garybeck]

62. the AG from MI just sent it to them a few days ago, i wouldn't expect subpoenas already

I don't know what your issue is, why you seem to be insisting that there is no federal investigation into the fake election documents. whatever dude. we'll find out one way or another. have a nice day

[HubertHeaver]

52. If Preet doesn't see it,

neither do the perps. Until that tap on the shoulder.

Edit to correct the correction

[dem4decades]

54. So you're saying there is no investigation?

[HubertHeaver]

61. How in the he77 do you conclude THAT?

Read the double 7s upside down.

[Fiendish Thingy]

53. Trump's last lawyer didn't skate, Roger Stone and Manafort didn't skate until Trump pardoned them

That’s not an option now.

[gibraltar72]

4. This is beginning to look like a CONSPIRACY!

[sop]

12. A Seditious Conspiracy.

[garybeck]

20. i believe that requires the use of force

I googled the definition of "seditious conspiracy" and it seems to indicate that it involves the use of force, or at least a plan to use force.

using lies, falsified documents, and things like that are not force, but it's my understanding there are other specific statutes on both the state and federal level making it illegal.

[sop]

26. Perhaps it was a part of the larger plot to disrupt the counting of legitimate electoral votes by

Congress on January 6, and replace them with these forged documents? It's a stretch, I know, but an aggressive prosecutor could make the argument.

[onenote]

51. A smart prosecutor would only make that argument if there was hard evidence

to support it.

Hopefully we will see whether such evidence exists.

[L. Coyote]

59. Killing a police officer in the US Capitol is use of force.

You don't get to skate out of a conspiracy because someone else was the trigger man.

There was ONE vast right wing conspiracy, one and one only, all directed by #FailedCoupGuy. All participants are criminally liable for a murder carried out as part of the conspiracy.

Link to tweet

[Alexander Of Assyria]

24. Always was a seditious duck, cause walked and talked like a seditious duck for years.

Now where are the ducking duck cuffs?

[PortTack]

6. The MI AG said the fake electors there could face up to 19 yrs in prison. Rudy..you next?!

[garybeck]

8. some people here on DU seem to think it's not illegal

everything i've heard in the media seems to indicate it's illegal in all 50 states and federally

[duhneece]

22. New Mexico and one other state's phony electors

Covered their asses with a clause/statement that said something to the effect that IF TFG won, then the votes would go to him.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

25. Some people on DU or most places are not AGs of major States, so no matter.

[samnsara]

48. gawd i hope they press state charges..

[Botany]

9. And what were the Oath Keepers going for in the Congressional Parliamentarian's office on 1/6/21?

The electoral ballots and if the real ballots went missing do you think Rudy was ready
with his "forged back ups?"

As noted up thread this smells like a conspiracy to me.

[EndlessWire]

19. I remember that two women

had the foresight to pick up the boxes and save the ballots. Or, something like that. They saved the day and received some praise for it.

[Alexander Of Assyria]

27. First the brownshirts had orders to detain the VP...if not already dealt with by The Mob.

VP is the constitutional lynchpin…once the lynchpin is removed…then comes the grenade of a presidential proclamation under the insurrection act…. cause it IS an insurrection right on the tv…who would argue if something happened to the vp?? and there was no transfer of power? A power vacuum filled by president for life tRump… and democracy died in the wide open, and would have been televised, just as the demon entertainer was watching….on TV ofc.

[sop]

10. Rudy's the imbecile who cooked up the hare-brained schemes that got Trump impeached.

His phony elector plot could be the most delusional.

[smb]

30. Remember When That "Borat" Scene Was The Most Embarrassing Moment Of His Career?

Now it wouldn't even make the Top Ten.

[FakeNoose]

32. Rudy was in the room, but it was Eastman and the Kraken lady (Sydney Powell)

... who actually told Chump about the scheme.

After the idea was laid out and Chump bought in, then Rudy said to Chump "Put ME in charge and I'll make it happen."

If Giuliani hadn't done that, it would have been Sydney Powell in charge, and he wouldn't have been able to stand it.

[brooklynite]

14. In fairness, Giuliani could have thought this up himself.

[dem4decades]

17. Even if he thought it up, others participated in the conspiracy. And that's a crime.

[Cobalt Violet]

18. I want this maniac off the streets!

Lock him up!

[Deuxcents]

28. It seems that these people associated w/ the fake ballots

And Rudy Guilliani actually thought they’d never be exposed. How could they not think there would be repercussions?

[NanceGreggs]

49. Because they thought the coup ...

... would be successful - in which case, there wouldn't have been any repercussions.

In fact, they probably thought they'd be rewarded for their efforts after-the-fact.

Looks like they thought wrong.

[Deuxcents]

58. I would agree

But in a state of exasperation..I find it ignorant or full of 💩/ego that they would carry on with this..did they just not care or did they think it would not matter.. how the thinking process is beyond me. And now that they’re found out with evidence, they’re begging the courts. We’ve never experienced this, as far as I know..at least in recent history. We gotta make sure the punishments are beyond a slap on the wrists, as they say. Some real teeth.. this cannot n should not ever happen again..ever.

[Kaleva]

68. It was exposed over a year ago. The Trump WH informed everyone about it.

"ELECTION 2020|Dec 14, 2020,11:31am EST|60,045 views
Trump Campaign Assembling Alternate Electors In Key States In Far-Fetched Attempt To Overturn Election

Alison Durkee

Updated Dec 14, 2020, 03:22pm EST
TOPLINE In an unprecedented move, groups of self-styled “electors” arranged by the Trump campaign in battleground states won by President-elect Joe Biden will meet Monday to vote for President Trump and send results claiming he won the states’ presidential elections to Congress, White House advisor Stephen Miller said Monday, the latest of the president’s far-fetched attempts to challenge Biden’s victory—which, like his previous efforts, is almost entirely certain to fail."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/12/14/trump-campaign-assembling-alternate-electors-in-key-states-in-far-fetched-attempt-to-overturn-election/?sh=7f53e213213a

It was also talked about in a number of threads here at DU:

"Mon Dec 14, 2020, 03:45 PM
Fake electors try to deliver Arizona's 11 votes for Trump"

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=14710747

"Thu Dec 31, 2020, 07:53 PM
Real Biden Elector Moves to Intervene Against Fake Trump Electors Who Sued VP Pence:"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214786069

"Thu Dec 24, 2020, 09:47 PM
AZ Sec of State Hobbs asks AG to investigate fake electors for using state seal"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214758728

"Mon Dec 14, 2020, 07:20 PM
Over in Freeperville, they're all wet over "Alternate GOP Electors" giving Trump the win."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214712142

"Mon Dec 14, 2020, 04:40 PM
In the spirit of fake electors,"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214711050

"Mon Dec 14, 2020, 04:30 PM

Fake electors try to deliver Arizona's votes"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214710987

[msfiddlestix]

81. That's how I remembered it It was all exposed a year ago

and a great deal of it televised live. day press conferences etc.

[cinematicdiversions]

29. America's Felon? NT

[BigmanPigman]

34. Works for me.

[sarcasmo]

31. No money for lawyers, Rudy needs to make a deal.

[Joinfortmill]

33. Anerica's Mayor,

How far you have fallen.

[turbinetree]

35. Okay can they now charge him with not only with conspiracy but how about....

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy,,,,,,,,,,,,

I just can't wait to seem him squirm on live tv......along with the others from the states that signed there names to forged documents.............. .

[garybeck]

40. the issue i see with that is... "by force"

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

I could see someone saying that forging documents is not doing something "by force".

It's my understanding however that there are other laws that to apply

[turbinetree]

41. I look at the word conspire and to in some sense levy a war.....they used a pen to conspire.....

we will see what happens....

[L. Coyote]

60. "I only participated in the non-violent part of the coup" isn't going to work in a court of law.

That's why we have laws against conspiracy and that is why the getaway driver is culpable when a police officer is killed in the bank (or in the US Capitol).

[garybeck]

63. I'm just reading the law. It says "by force". This is not "by force."

the Oath Keepers was clearly seditious conspiracy because they had guns and plans to use them. the fake election documents is an attempt to defraud our democracy. Im not a lawyer but I don't think seditious conspiracy applies here because force was not used or planned.

[L. Coyote]

66. "I worked on the fraud part, not the killing police part." That won't fly either.

They were all working on the same, singular conspiracy, keeping Trump in power. It does not matter how far removed or blind they were to the overall plan or how the plan changed as failures mounted. That's the law too.

[myohmy2]

56. WOW...

...hang in there

...

[tclambert]

64. . . . and Giuliani was arrested and hauled off in handcuffs?

I want to see these guys doing perp walks!

[Stuart G]

65. Thank You for posting...K and R..More to Come..(I think) ..Who will testify to verify? That is the

only question..

[Eyeball_Kid]

67. Giuliani is a black-hearted bastard, but give him credit

... for being so deaf to the sound and meaning of the words,"Everything Trump Touches Dies." If Wilson didn't do anything else right in the world, his book title makes up for a lot of it.

[twodogsbarking]

69. Rudy could spill the Goyas.

[Kid Berwyn]

70. Operation FOUR SEASONS

Stick a pitchfork in it.

[BlueWavePsych]

85. LOL +1

[ificandream]

73. Just pull on Rudy's tail and he'll squeal like a pig ... :)

[msfiddlestix]

77. Is this really breaking news? Could have sworn I watched most of this revealed in real time as it

was happening, and the parts we couldn't see on camera, were reported out relative to the time of occurrence.

Perhaps I was imagining all of this in all in advance.

[ificandream]

78. What's "breaking" is people have squealed

From the story:

"The sources said members of former President Donald Trump's campaign team were far more involved than previously known in the plan, a core tenet of the broader plot to overturn President Joe Biden's victory when Congress counted the electoral votes on January 6."

[msfiddlestix]

79. ✔️ ✔️ ✔️ Thanks

squealing like pigs I hope.

[Kid Berwyn]

82. Seditious Conspiracy

With Dimdonnie Drumpfler at ze top.

[BlueWavePsych]

80. K&R

[oasis]

83. Rudy's going down.

[sarcasmo]

84. No pardons this time.