Florida students & faculty will have to declare political views to prevent liberal "indoctrination"

[DonViejo]

Source: LGBTQ Nation


The law also allows students to record lectures without consent so they can sue the professor or school for "discriminating" against conservative "thoughts."

By Bil Browning Wednesday, June 23, 2021

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) has signed legislation that will require university and college students, faculty, and administration to declare their political views to ensure the institutions aren’t “indoctrinating” children into liberal “ideology.”

The shocking law not only requires the schools to survey staff and students, but it also allows students to secretly record professors so they can sue if they don’t “feel free to express beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom.”

Florida Republicans made it clear they did not intend for the law to protect liberal or minority students, decrying the institutions of higher learning as “socialism factories” and “hotbeds for stale ideology.”

“It used to be thought that a university campus was a place where you’d be exposed to a lot of different ideas,” DeSantis said during a bill signing ceremony. “Unfortunately, now the norm is, these are more intellectually repressive environments. You have orthodoxies that are promoted, and other viewpoints are shunned or even suppressed.”

Read more: https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2021/06/florida-students-faculty-will-declare-political-views-prevent-liberal-indoctrination

[The Magistrate]

1. Anyone, Sir, Who Answers Anything But 'None Of Your Damn Business'

Ain't no American....

[NotHardly]

8. I see a Supreme Court challenge in the offing for this stupid shit law

... plain old fascist crap from the works of Republicans... makes me angry and simultaneously tired.

[RVN VET71]

35. I know what DeSantis is doing is blatantly fascist, but is it in violation of the constitution?

I know the 4th protects against search and seizure of property, but is there anything in the constitution which prohibits thought crimes, which DeSantis is clearly trying to establish here?

There’s no question, none, nada, zilch question that this is unAmerican. But we’re talking about Florida here, and that’s only marginally part of the American values and belief system.

[IL Dem]

65. I would think it's a violation of the 1st Amendment.

Freedom of speech. Speech comes from thought. (Well, most of the time.)

[Blasphemer]

86. Right - and it includes the freedom to not speak. nt

[IL Dem]

97. Right. That's what I meant but didn't express well. nt

[RVN VET71]

102. Thanks. I researched a few minutes and found this gem:

https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/educational-resources/about-educational-outreach/activity-resources/what-does

USCOURTS.gov points out that you have the freedom not to speak, specifically, not to salute the flag. That means of course you cannot be required to recite the pledge of allegiance. And, by obvious extrapolation, that means the government cannot make you tell them what political party you lean towards.

Period. Case closed.

I hope the Dems in Florida are getting the word out so people know that, if “ordered” by the state to reveal their politics they can refuse with impunity. And if the Nazis on DeSantis’ team want to try to enforce this fascist rule, I’m sure the ACLU will be there to oppose it with vigor.


The SCOTUS won’t have to deliberate this one. It’ll be 9 to 0 with a side of verbal chastisement to the idiot (DeSantis) who who thought it a good idea.

[obamanut2012]

13. Staff are also included, and FL State staff have zero protection

Faculty at least are in a union. So, people do not want to lose their jobs, especially in a state where one-bedroom apts in many areas are a minimum of $1,600.

[certainot]

82. florida st supports 4 x-limbaugh stations! - so students can protest right there and any

discussion it creates will chase advertisers from those station. if the school actually begins the process of looking for apolitical alternatives those stations are fucked and so is disantis and fla republicans because 20+ xlimbaugh stations depend on 5 Fla unis -

from fakenewsradio.org FLORIDA 20 Florida 10, Florida St. 4 Miami 2, South Florida 2, Central Florida 2

all these schools need to reread their mission statements they have no excuse to keep letting disantis and co to use their athletes to deny global warming, excuse racism, defund public ed, and sell voter suppression. when one does the right thing the others will be shamed into followiing

if democrats want offense to punish republicans, that will kill them, as will become clear from their howls about free speech and censorship - those stations run up and down fla and are critical to republican electoral and legislative success - unlike fox they can be coordinated at the local level.

republicans will fall apart without their rw radio advantage

[whistler162]

109. I could see a rise in supporters

of the CThulhuist party, ALL HAIL THE GREAT LEADER CTHULHU!

[Solly Mack]

2. That law needs to be sued into oblivion.

DeSantis is another wannabe tyrant that must be stopped.

[pandr32]

4. +1

[YoshidaYui]

58. +2

n/t

[csziggy]

90. If I were a student I would sue any conservative professor

That tried to force their views on me.

Fortunately, I attended college in the early 1970s where liberal professors were much more common than conservative, at least in the colleges and university I attended.

[Solly Mack]

92. I agree. I would, too.

Turn it right back around on them.

[sarisataka]

3. My answer about my political view would be

That I am a card carrying member of the GFY party.

[CurtEastPoint]

5. God, they are SO delicate and fragile because their beliefs are A BUNCH OF CRAP.

[Escurumbele]

17. Right on.It cannot be explained any better than how you just did.That should become a bumper sticker

[alphafemale]

6. Since when are University students children? nt

[SomewhereInTheMiddle]

20. That struck me as well.

I have taught at both secondary and university levels. Calling 18-25 year old's children would offend them to no end.

[malthaussen]

31. Hell, it would offend a 15 year old. n/t

[YoshidaYui]

59. Fox News has done this

Brainwashed all these people over the last 10 to 20 years. assholes..

[Evolve Dammit]

66. And right wing hate radio 24/7/365. Rot in hell Limbaugh

[yonder]

49. Yep. That stuck out.

I think they had to insert "children" so they could justify this as "protecting innocence". Who knows?

This is screwed up and I don't see how it will survive a USSC challenge....hell probably wouldn't survive a Florida SC challenge either.

[DBoon]

7. "Are you now or have you ever been ..."

[appalachiablue]

22. Coming right up, Red Scare Part 3

[yardwork]

103. Yep.

[PerceptionManagement]

9. Performative republican political thearter at taxpayer expense. Waste. Fraud. Abuse.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. 'Anti-fascists-who-demand-you-declare-your-political-ideology' could be popular

It has a handy shortening, after all ...

"You have orthodoxies that are promoted, and other viewpoints are shunned or even suppressed". Oh, the irony.

[LT Barclay]

11. All physics classes in Florida have been ordered to

Immediately include instruction about Jewish space lasers and Italian vote flipping satellites🛰️🛰️🛰️

[Escurumbele]

19. I am glad to hear that...definitely one of the greatest threats happening in the USA

They may also include methods to find Chinese bamboos in voting ballots, lets not forget that other danger.

[Permanut]

71. And the origin of the rainbow.

[obamanut2012]

12. Oh, and staff, too

So, librarians, secretaries, etc. And, as per State Senator Lori Berman (D), she was told it would not be anonymous.

Non faculty university staff have zero protection -- faculty at least have a union. And, it appears you will have to give your name.

[róisín_dubh]

107. I don't know about Florida..

But not all faculty can unionise and contingent faculty are at serious risk.
I’m a professor in another moronic state (I can’t wait to resign in December) and they are attempting to ban teaching race and gender material. I teach both.

These legislators can get in the bin.

[Mz Pip]

14. Any consequences

for indoctrination in conservative thought?

Can a student record a teacher extolling the virtues of Donald Trump and sue?

[Fullduplexxx]

15. Conservative thought... you mean they think?

To what conservative thoughts are they referring ?

[Baked Potato]

16. Republicans playing the long game. Setting up a controversy for later. Nt

[Auggie]

26. ⬆︎THIS⬆︎

[malthaussen]

18. Worth a "wow," though it will probably be overturned in record time.

More legislative performance art. But very ugly art.

-- Mal

[GB_RN]

21. Fascist Kabuki Theater

For the fascists at home. The ACLU, et al, will be all over this like stink on mink.

[turbinetree]

23. SO when the kiddies have to wear the same outfit to represent the school are they not

showing there fucking political affiliation .............fucking Florida reminds me of Hungary.....no it reminds me of fucking Russia being run by a bunch of wanna be fascists' ....why people want to move there is just beyond me...

[Renew Deal]

24. This is a "truth has a liberal bias" problem.

The reason republicans struggle with the educated is that their ideology is easily recognizable as a fraud.

[LymphocyteLover]

25. Horrifying. And he just signed a law mandating high schools teach the evils of communism

All the wingnut sites are going nuts over it.

https://twitter.com/search?q=desantis%20communism&src=typeahead_click


Fascism on the march

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

27. OMFG

Is this for real?

[Marthe48]

28. Ridiculous

How many of the asses coming up with voter suppression, gerrymandering, white supremeacy horse manure have an education? Not intelligent, you know, but went to high school and university and still talk and act like they live in a cesspool? They came out of their classes as stupid as when they went in.

Only a few of the newest r's elected last year can't claim a h.s or higher education.

[DallasNE]

29. Where To Begin?

Recordings can and will be edited. This will force the institution to also record all classes and keep a complete library of years of the classroom recordings as a defensive measure. Then people will sue the university for a copy of these recordings. Ans this will just add to the cost of higher education.

Define "indoctrinating". Isn't this the purpose of higher education? You indoctrinate (teach) the science and the known facts, not the big lie. So the big lie is not an orthodoxies that you teach. This bill would violate the principles of higher learning.

[Warpy]

30. Cue the ACLU

or prepare to have degrees from any college in Florida not be worth the paper they're printed on.

De Satan just wants to ensure a steady supply of Florida Man.

[Mysterian]

32. This cannot be constitutional

Last edited Wed Jun 23, 2021, 06:38 PM - Edit history (1)

Florida is led by a bunch of fascist idiots.

[onenote]

101. You're right. But the law doesn't say or do what the OP says.

It's a bad law, but it's not facially unconstitutional

See pot #98.

[Chainfire]

33. Next DeSantis will be having educators arrested for expressing opinions that the state

disagrees with. He wants a creationist student to attend a lecture on evolution and shout down the professor, then sue the professor for violating his rights to have equal time. DeSantis is a danger to freedom everywhere.

[ZonkerHarris]

76. "Evolution is a lie!!!" "Kid, this is a typing class."

[Javaman]

34. the right is a-okay with fascism and communism as long as they do it. nt

[JudyM]

42. Oh, so much this, Javaman. Well said!

[OneCrazyDiamond]

36. If you didn't recieve a liberal education,

your uneducated.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

70. Ummmm ...

If you didn't recieve a liberal education,

your uneducated.

[FelineOverlord]

37. Florida students & faculty will have to declare political views to prevent liberal "indoctrination"

Nikki Fried, who's running for the Democratic nomination for Florida governor, is not pleased.

Link to tweet

[obamanut2012]

45. It is also STAFF, not only faculty

Secretaries, library staff, etc. Faculty are at least allowed to be unionized here, staff are fucked.

[FelineOverlord]

47. It is also STAFF, not only faculty

I guess if they are not Republicans they'll have to lie on these surveys.

That's what I would do.

Republicans lie all the time.

I am curious to see the very creative answers the college students will give.

I see many, many lawsuits over this.

[obamanut2012]

50. There is no way it will be anonymous

Anything sent to their work email they click on will have a trail, and as per Sunshine Laws, this will have to be made public (a FL attorney was just discussing this part). And, what if your political party registration is cross-indexed? What if 65% of the History Department are liberals and Dems? Will they fire the staff, and try to revoke faculty tenure? Or just cut the budget so 65% of History positions are axed? Is the library 90% Liberal? Will they eb allowed to buy "liberal" books and journals? Will 90% of the position budget be axed, or will only teh liberal staff be fired? Which they can be.

I have had several friends who work at SUS say they are changing their political affiliation ASAP to Independent, so they won't be fired. These are staff, not faculty. They are terrified.

[ladym55]

73. I can see why

Staff at universities have little or no protection. And if you the person running the copy center or checking out the laptops at the library, who really gives a rat's rear about your politics? "You can only have this iPad if you voted for Joe Biden." Give me a break.

[YoshidaYui]

67. Nikki Fried

Link to tweet

[ananda]

38. This is seriously creepy?

How far will this be allowed to go?

[keithsw]

40. DeSantis is a lot smarter

Than people give him credit for. He KNOWS this will get overturned in court. But with him it's all about the appearance. This will appeal to all Conservatives and thus get their votes

[ananda]

60. Still, will colleges ever be the same in Florida?

I don't think so, even if it gets overturned.

Those people there are crazy and mean.
Professors won't feel safe regardless.

[keithsw]

84. My next door neighbor

Is a Prof in Florida. But this is her last year and she's retiring. Says it's been getting bad for a while now

[bucolic_frolic]

39. Ideas so threatening they must be suppressed lest truth breaks out

[MrModerate]

41. My uniform answer to official surveys from my employer about my political opinions is...

"I'm a member of the Stick it Up Your Ass Party. Our platform is, stick it up your ass."

[keithbvadu2]

43. If you speak out against republican child molesters, is that conservative or anti-conservative?

If you speak out against republican child molesters, is that conservative or anti-conservative?

[MrModerate]

44. Another completely unconstitutional brainfart from the guy...

Who wants to take over custody of the deplorables from Donald Trump.

[tinymontgomery]

46. So if a conservative teacher puts out a conservative

So if a conservative teacher puts out a conservative and I feel they
are trying to indoctrinate me to conservative views I can sue the hell out of them
also?

[LiberalLovinLug]

51. They would have to take those up too you'd think.

I really hope more than one creative liberal student will take advantage of this. At the very least to counter the inevitable Young Republican efforts to goad and record teachers and sue. Tie up the courts with so many cases, from both sides, that it becomes a nightmare to deal with.

[murielm99]

48. We have been through some of this during the 1950's.

Many types of employment require a loyalty oath. The President, members of Congress, and the armed services are examples.

Most loyalty oaths for public employees have been struck down.

These fools are going to enrich a lot of lawyers. At least there is precedent.

I thought this article explained it well. If someone finds a better link, I will delete. I am not a lawyer.

[2Gingersnaps]

81. I guess "tort reform" disappeared right along side

"family values" "fiscal responsibility" "government over reach."

[twodogsbarking]

52. Discriminating against those who

discriminate against others is not allowed. Weird.

[cab67]

53. They tried to pass this in my state.

It didn't pass, but frankly, I wasn't too worried about it - I already knew the legislature in my state was filled with morons, and it's clearly unconstitutional, so even if it passed, it wasn't something I'd actually have to deal with.

[kimbutgar]

54. This is out of those sci if movies

1984 with the thought police DeSatan.


Handmaidens Tale, Minority report and especially Idiocracy! !

I feel like the Universities are going to fight back and it will hurt the athletic programs when people don’t want to go there anymore

[YoshidaYui]

55. These are no longer Republicans...

They ARE thugs.. a criminal organization!

[AZLD4Candidate]

56. This has 85,000 kinds of 1st amendment violations written all over it.

[barbtries]

57. this law is going nowhere.

omigawd.

I feel like i don't want to go on living in this fucking place. but i'll hang on because i know my children and grandchildren will be here long after i'm gone. they deserve so much better than this.

i'm truly shocked by this.

[MrModerate]

61. This can't be remotely constitutional.

[Rabrrrrrr]

62. "My political views are that elephants should be electable. If you want to spend the money in court

to prove me wrong, I will really, really, really enjoy that process. I can keep making shit up for years."

"In fact, it was Jesus himself who came to me to tell me that elephants should be our new overlords. So you'll have to prove Jesus wrong."

"What? I said the opposite yesterday? Oh, I'm not committing perjury - it's just that yesterday I did believe that; but last night Jesus came to me again and gave me a new political philosophy."

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCKHELL FUCK IS WRONG WITH REPUBLICANS?!?!?!?!?!!?

[HUAJIAO]

63. Right out of China.

[Rabrrrrrr]

64. Every day, every student and staff member should write a new letter with their new politics,

and send it to the Dean, president, and whoever else, and also the Governor, and every elected official in the state.

(that'll really help the post office, too )

Flood their mailboxes with tons of garbage.

Or get everyone to text the Dean every twenty minutes with an update on their political stance. Put so damn many texts into the queue that even if they stop the bullshit, it'll take 6 months for AT&T to finish sending the backlog.

[Paladin]

68. No wonder DeSantis is starting to beat trump in Republican polls.

Fascist piece of shit.

[turbinetree]

69. I am a "LIBERAL"....and get a social security check....and now I am a socialist...

like most of the retirees in Florida........

[ashredux]

72. DeSantis, Abbott...these guys all are looking to 2024...who can be more of a Fascist

Just amazingly bizarre….

[Permanut]

74. DeSantis is gonna need some Thought Police..

to monitor and police all of this. There are some ideas about this in something I read somewhere.

[AllaN01Bear]

75. sounds way too close to mcarthyisim during the red scare . mom was on the

list because she attended something called the model united nations in san fransisco and was in the first sex education class at berkley u. a employer asked her about that and her response was " how did u know that "? question was never asked again. had a friend on skype whom was listening to mike savage on his radio at full volume and i couldnt hear a thing he was saying , he started screaming , you challened my political beliefs , etc , all i asked him to do was please turn down the radio. hem. and as one poster pointed out , its none of your business sir and or mam

[amb123]

77. And the Thought Police is born.

[Politicub]

78. Republican ideology as a protected characteristic

This is where the republicans are headed, and have been for some time. It sounds like something the Chinese communist party would do.

[ladym55]

79. I see the potential of a mass exodus of Florida faculty

Why in HELL would anyone with an option stay in a place where little Charlie Kirk trainees would record (and edit) lectures to cause trouble?

And I see this going far beyond the departments where the legislation is aimed (all them LIE-bruls in the humanities and social sciences!!). The same yahoos who are afraid of lie-brul thinking in the humanities and social sciences are terrified of science. My husband and I spent the bulk of our careers in higher education, and even 15+ years ago, the big local megachurch would send in disrupter students to challenge teaching on evolution. That was annoying, but this law (if not struck down into oblivion) is downright dangerous.

And as someone who worked in higher ed, I saw for myself that faculty and staff have diverse perspectives--including politically. This myth of left-wing indoctrination is right-wing fear fantasy. The point of higher education is to explore diverse perspectives and then THINK critically. That could be the big fear. Critical thinking and right-wing talking points don't go together well.

[2Gingersnaps]

80. OMG!

Every University in Floriduh just became Trump University! Liberty University wasn't bad enough?

[yonder]

85. And every "scholar" they produce will graduate

sounding something like this:

[TeamProg]

83. Fascism at work.. n/t

[Blasphemer]

87. This is why I don't take all the crying about "cancel culture" seriously...

And why it's silly of Democrats to buy into that narrative. The "cancel culture" stuff is just camouflage for the right's much more nefarious anti-democratic agenda.

[TheAnnoyedAgnostic]

96. Red Scare was cancel culture.

But no GOPer would describe it as such.
Cause it was THEM doing the cancelling(the right people ofc).

[Marrah_Goodman]

88. My response would be "none of your business"

[EarthFirst]

89. To protect the "children" ?

What children?

Students at the collegiate level are generally legally recognized adults.

[area51]

91. What a surprise,

the party of "small govt." wants authoritarianism.

[lees1975]

93. Yeah, well that's one law that won't be enforced

and it won't pass muster in court, either.

Just one more piece of mounting evidence that Desantis is planning to run for President and should be resoundingly beaten into the ground.

[onenote]

100. See post #98.

[TheAnnoyedAgnostic]

94. Cue for RW Media to harass and drive out wrong thinkers be of their public views nt

[Stuart G]

95. DeSantis will be up for reelection in 2022..This should be a major issue.

And it will be declared unconstitutional...and DeSantis knows it..

He is appealing to the right wing idiots...and he knows it.

He signed it because it will help get him money...and he knows it.

He thinks for sure that he will be re-elected...
............That he doesn't know...I will send money to his opponent..(not yet determined)

[onenote]

98. What the law actually says isn't how its described in the OP article.

It's a bad law, but the statement in the OP article that the legislation "will require university and college students, faculty, and administration to declare their political views to ensure the institutions aren't 'indoctrinating' children into liberal 'ideology'" isn't what the law actually says.

What it says is that "The State Board of Education shall require each Florida College System institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution. The State Board of Education shall selector create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. The State Board of Education shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022. The State Board of Education may adopt rules to implement this paragraph.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/233/BillText/er/PDF

As stated, it's a bad law, and the State Board of Education may go overboard with its survey, in which case it will be challenged, probably successfully, in court. But for all those who think the law is unconstitutional as written -- they are basing that on a description of the law that is not accurate.

On edit: the words "indoctrinate," "indoctrination", "indoctrinating", etc do not appear anywhere in the law.

[NJCher]

99. Link to Chronicle of Higher Education

coverage:

https://www.chronicle.com/article/florida-law-will-require-public-colleges-to-survey-for-intellectual-freedom-and-viewpoint-diversity

[GulfCoast66]

104. I would love to read the replies they are going to get

Especially from the students. I think this will not end like they think.

I think the term Fuck off will be the least of the replies they get.

[milestogo]

105. Learning critical thinking tends to make people politically liberal.

But it's because you are being taught how to think, not what to think. Conservatives do not understand this.

[BlueWavePsych]

106. WaPo: In push against 'indoctrination,' DeSantis mandates surveys of Florida students' beliefs

After banning public schools from teaching “critical race theory” two weeks ago, Florida is reshaping civics lessons and addressing what its governor says parents worry about when they send their children to college — indoctrination.

Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) says he is concerned about the free flow of ideas on campus and whether higher education stifles free speech from conservatives. Under a law he signed Tuesday, which will take effect July 1, public universities must assess “viewpoint diversity” on campus each year through a survey developed by the State Board of Education, a requirement that a free-speech expert predicted as a model for other conservative-led states.

Although the Florida law does not address penalties for schools where the survey finds low levels of “intellectual freedom” and “viewpoint diversity,” DeSantis has hinted at the potential for budget cuts at universities that don’t pass muster.

“I think the answer is that it is being mandated because it gives a conservative state legislative body a tool to withhold funding from a university that, based upon the survey results, seems to discriminate against conservative viewpoints,” he said in an interview.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/06/24/florida-intellectual-freedom-law-mandates-viewpoint-surveys/

[onetexan]

108. This whacko is even more dangerous than the Con

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

110. I believe the Earth is flat, all laws should come from the Bible, every class will begin ...

... with the Pledge of Allegiance and the Lord's Prayer.

Can I has a job teaching in Florida?