Trump officials debating cutting Moderna dose in half to speed up COVID vaccination

[sabra]

Source: The Hill

Trump administration officials are in discussions with Moderna about speeding up the coronavirus vaccination process by only giving people half the recommended dose of the company's vaccine, a top adviser said Sunday.

Moncel Slaoui, the chief science adviser for Operation Warp Speed, said there is evidence that giving people between the ages of 18 and 55 two half doses "induces identical immune response" to the normal 100 microgram dose.

During an interview with Margaret Brennan on CBS's "Face the Nation," Slaoui said the strategy "means exactly achieving the objective of immunizing double the number of people with the doses we have."

But Slaoui has also strongly advocated against the idea that people need only one shot instead of the current two dose regimen, so it's not clear how giving people two half doses would be different.

Read more: https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/532521-trump-officials-debating-cutting-moderna-dose-in-half-to-speed-up-covid

[Blue Owl]

1. Junior suggested cutting it with baby laxative

[DENVERPOPS]

22. LOL, good one Blue Owl nc

[durablend]

24. Clorox, more likely

[bluestarone]

2. If this is RUMP people deciding this, then

I will refuse half doses, UNTIL science says it's ok.

[LisaL]

5. My feelings exactly.

If two full doses were used in clinical trials, then giving two half doses remains untested.

[Evolve Dammit]

28. Ain't that the truth. This is pathetic. Same as before, let each state deal with it. No interest.

[Grasswire2]

3. Jared selling off the other half? nt

[montanacowboy]

4. This is Bullshit

the trials were not based on this; if you don't follow the trials you don't have any kind of guarantee. Also saw this fucking asshole Moncel Slaoui being taken to the cleaners by Allyson Camarota this morning when he tried to lie out of saying he never said 20 million would be vaccinated by end of Dec. and then she played the tape.
These assholes should die of Covid in the worst way.

[NoRoadUntravelled]

9. Exactly right. It is Bullshit.

The protocols have been set. They act like they want as many people as possible to die of Covid19.

[LiberalArkie]

26. They do, because THEIR people have already been vaccinated. I will lay odds that all the top floor

people on Wall Street and the major banks across the nation have already had their shots. The 1% is covered. The more of the bottom 30% that die, they lower their taxes will be.

That is probably the story in every nation on this planet.

[TomVilmer]

19. You made me google for Alisyn Camerota. Thanks!

... How moving to CNN saved Alisyn Camerota’s career
Moments like this at Fox News — in which Camerota refused to parrot talking points passed along to her — stirred tension between her and Roger Ailes, who routinely coached her to change her on-air ideological profile.

[Evolve Dammit]

29. scrambling, incompetent bullshit. Zero interest at the top from Day 1. They got us here.

[Bayard]

6. The article doesn't say

What Moderna thinks about that idea. Its not how that drug was approved.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. Then more people will refuse to take it.

[Hekate]

8. Deliberate Trumpian FUBAR -- again

[SoFlaBro]

10. "Step on that dope" to stretch the product. He is a conman, pimp, dope dealer, and an Orange Bastard

n/t

[TurboDem]

11. Nope!

No way I'm taking a half dose! I will do whatever Fauci and the TRUSTED medical professionals tell me, but I'm not taking a half dose when it wasn't originally tested that way.

[orangecrush]

12. He wants us all dead.

[area51]

47. +1

Along with the fact that we still don't have healthcare as a basic right, even in a pandemic.

[lonely bird]

13. There is evidence Moncel Slaoui...

Lacks the guts to tell Trump to go fuck himself. He would rather endanger people’s lives than listen to the Velveeta Vulgarian whine at him.

[FBaggins]

39. What is that evidence?

He appears to be someone in a position to know better than any of us whether this is a good idea and he seems pretty clear that "we know it induces identical immune response"

I've been reading that this debate is being held by scientists, not pushed by Trump or a political suit. I've also read that countries in Europe are considering/making a similar move (in their case delaying the second dose).

What's the evidence that this endangers people's lives and the former head of vaccines at one of the top pharma companies (who CNN just called "one of few senior Trump figures to leave with his reputation enhanced&quot just doesn't have the guts to say no to Trump?

[lonely bird]

44. Then why the stronger dose?

Just for the hell of it? Is delaying the second dose the same as not giving it at all?

[FBaggins]

46. It was their best guess at the time

You can't run sixteen parallel stage3 trials at different doses/timing. Each one needs a large enough group to be valid and to complete in a reasonable amount of time... and who would approve of giving a trial vaccine to hundreds of thousands of people before it is shown to be safe?

But testing a vaccine isn't just giving it to 20,000 people and seeing who gets sick over the next few months (and what side effects of course). They can measure the immune response directly in much smaller groups. So they could test multiple different dosing strategies and have a pretty good idea of what results they'll get. I don't have a good grasp on these newer types of vaccines, but if you imagine a traditional vaccine... if your trial showed 90% effectiveness at a given dose and you later measured the same antibody response at half of that dose... you would have a pretty good idea that the lower dose would be just as effective. Remember that the vaccine is gone from your body quite quickly. There's no "memory" of how much was injected... there's just your body's ability to produce the antibodies.

Delaying the second dose is thought to be much less effective. But that doesn't mean that the European countries considering that strategy are wrong. If, for instance, a drug is 95% effective with two doses a month apart... but only 65% effective with a single dose (and then perhaps 80% effective with a second dose six months later)... then each individual will be at greater risk of infection, but the society at large will be much better off (with twice as many people inoculated). If there's any seasonality at all to the virus, the benefit goes up.

Moncel Slaoui is disagreeing with that strategy. He's saying that there's more data for two half-doses than for a single full dose.

[Hugin]

45. The evidence is that he said by the end of Dec 22 Million Americans would be vaccinated.

Which was a complete fantasy.

[bucolic_frolic]

14. Nothing like getting half of everything

[Turbineguy]

15. Brilliant idea!

But why not just inject water? After all, the virus is a hoax and if you voted for trump you are immune to getting the virus which is a hoax anyway, so stop saying that!

[McKim]

16. Just Add A Little Bleach!

Just add a little bleach to fill up the needle! No problem!

[dalton99a]

17. Are Fauci and Azar ok with that?

Anthony Fauci, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, and National Institutes of Health director Francis Collins publicly received Moderna's coronavirus vaccine on Tuesday.

[tanyev]

18. Isn't the lack of planning and procedures for getting the vaccine to people

a much bigger problem than the amount of vaccine available? Seems like that’s the main problem in Texas.

[riversedge]

20. '., is to prioritize giving everyone a first dose, delaying a second dose by as long as three months

Trump pence and Kursher FAILED and now they are looking to skimp on the vaccine. damn!


............Given the inefficient rollout, health experts and federal officials have been looking for ways to speed up the process.

One possibility, recently adopted in the U.K., is to prioritize giving everyone a first dose, delaying a second dose by as long as three months.


Slaoui said he doesn't see that happening in the U.S., and questioned the science behind the delay.

Both Moderna and Pfizer were authorized in a two-dose form, and Slaoui said trials show the second dose gives an immune response 10 times higher than the first dose

"We have no data after one dose," Slaoui said. Delaying the vaccination schedule "without any data I think would not be responsible," he said.

[efhmc]

21. Not going to happen. DJT and friends may be corrupt but medical people are not.

[DallasNE]

23. It Is Wrong For The Trump Administration

Even considering this unilaterally given that they will only be in office another two weeks. There have been no trials using half doses so it makes no sense for a political appointee giving an order of this magnitude. I hope Moderna pushes back. They sure should.

[secondwind]

25. This tells me that there isn't enough to go around... not by a long shot... who did they sell the

vaccines to? Saudi Arabia?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

27. Doctor Trump

I think I'd trust Jack Kevorkian before him, and he's dead.

[Initech]

30. What could go wrong there?

[DallasNE]

31. The Task Ahead For Biden

As this clearly shows, Operation Warp Speed was nothing more than a slogan. The hard task of developing an actual plan from the ground up falls into Joe Biden's lap. And Biden has already hinted at some of the measures he will take, such as using the emergency defense authorization act to speed up the production of vaccines. That, of course, is a no brainer - which makes you wonder why it wasn't already in place.

[NCjack]

32. Dr. Slaoui, we would be better off if you would channel your suggestions

to modify the vaccine protocol through credible people, such as the vaccine companies' scientists and Dr. Fauci. They have credibility, whereas you, a compliant employee of the Trump Administration, have none in issues involving diseases and vaccines.

Because of you, cautious people will reject the original size of the vaccine dose. You know better than to have spoken to the public as you did. WHY did you?

[FBaggins]

40. Seriously?

You're going to tell one of the top vaccine experts in the world that he doesn't have credibility for issues involving vaccines? Trump doesn't have credibility on the subject... but this guy does.

The article is incredibly poorly titled. This isn't the Trump administration trying to mess with the process. Scientists all around the world are debating the subject and multiple countries in Europe are looking at similar options. In fact... these statements were actually given in response/rebuttal to a question about Europe's discussion about single doses to twice as many people. He didn't just say "hey... let's try this"

[Midnight Writer]

33. "There is evidence" is TrumpSpeak for "I saw someone on the internet say..."

[Steelrolled]

43. I think it is based on what is going on in UK.

They are playing pretty fast and loose (at least in what they are considering).

[Marthe48]

34. Not taking BS advice from criminals

counting down the days.

[marble falls]

35. I know, I know ...

... have everyone put their hand on the TV as they give the shot to this guy:

They'll only need one shot!!!

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

36. "Science? We don't need no stinkin' science!"

Trump's still on the "herd immunity" path, only this time he's masking it by giving everyone half the amount of the vaccine that is necessary to be innoculated. Basically, Fat Donnie wants to give people a placebo so he'll be able to point to some sort of last-minute accomplishment with the pandemic. He won't admit that he f_cked up the response to the pandemic every step of the way, so now he wants credit for the vaccines. And since the only thing he understands are numbers -- look how he confuses the stock market with the economy -- that's what he's trying to do here. IMPEACH THE BASTARD!

[iluvtennis]

37. This is Bullshit. All of the trial results for Moderna are based on a two dose vaccination protocol

Unless the Moderna scientists come out and say that a one dose vaccination protocol will suffice, it is unacceptable for trump/his thugs to recommend something different.

[Rebl2]

38. Exactly!

I would think the FDA or whoever is responsible would put a stop to that.

[iluvtennis]

41. + agree...but not yet a word as It has tem muzzled. nt

[Steelrolled]

42. I wonder if this is because of what the UK is doing

They are acting like cowboys, considering different dosages, one dose only, etc., none of which had a formal trial. In my view, they are interesting ideas that *probably* will be successful, but *might* be a disaster.

I don't think the FDA/CDC would go for anything like this - or only if things get much worse.