Italian study suggesting COVID predates China outbreak sparks scepticism

[IsItJustMe]

Source: Health

ROME (Reuters) - An Italian study supporting the case that the novel coronavirus was circulating outside China earlier than thought has sparked doubts among some Western scientists who called for further tests.

A paper published by the Italian Cancer Institute (INT) describes the presence of neutralizing antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in blood taken from healthy patients in Italy in October last year during a lung cancer screening trial.

If the data are correct, they would change the history of the pandemic and raise questions of when and where the virus emerged. It was first identified in the central Chinese city of Wuhan in December...


Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/italian-study-suggesting-covid-predates-123134893.html

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The Spanish Flu was first observed in the United States, France, Germany, and the United Kingdom, Because the Spanish media had a truly free press and reported on it extensively, unlike other countries, they got the privilege of having the virus named after them. Kill the messenger.

It will be interesting to see how Covid-19 will be recorded a few years down the line.

[OhZone]

1. Spain also claims they checked OLD sewage samples from

March of 2019 and found coronavirus there -


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-science/coronavirus-traces-found-in-march-2019-sewage-sample-spanish-study-shows-idUSKBN23X2HQ

[Autumn]

2. I got sick in Oct 2019 for a couple of weeks, sickest I've ever been in my life.

Ended up in the hospital for 5 days and came home on oxygen, over a year later still on it. One of the doctors said it might be bronchitis. I've had that a couple of times, I know it wasn't bronchitis.

[a la izquierda]

5. My mother visited me in Europe in October and came down with something...

I have no idea what. She was sicker than I've ever seen.

I got extremely sick early in January, after returning from London and New York City. Again, sicker than I've been in my entire life. High fever, cough that lasted weeks and weeks.. it was horrendous.
But I've tested negative for antibodies twice.

[Autumn]

10. My PCP firmly believes that it wasn't here then. I had no cough and only an occasional

fever. No one I knew had been out of country.

[IsItJustMe]

7. Perhaps you could get a Covid-19 antibody test

I think you can get one for under $200. At least then, you would know for sure.

[zipplewrath]

3. It started earlier than was generally known

There is evidence it was in the US at least by December, if not earlier. Truth is if you detect it in December, it probably means it arrived at least in November. The outbreak in NYC was due to European travel to that area, predominately from Italy it is suspected. The outbreak in Washington may have actually post dated NYC. It is true that one of the many problems with this pandemic was that local health officials in China first didn't want to believe what was happening, and then they wanted to hide it from national leaders because they had mishandled it so badly. Trump's complaint that China didn't tell the world fast enough has some truth to it. But in the end, once we knew what was happening, basically in January, our response was a complete failure. The CDC put out a "bad" test in lieu of the WHO test, mostly out of a "not invented here" attitude. It was the end of February before we had an accurate test, and by then it was really too late to completely contain this thing.

We had one last chance in May. We "flattened the curve" and if we had spent May basically in lockdown, and started contact tracing in earnest, we might have had a chance. But instead so many states started "opening up" and that led straight into Memorial day. At this point all we'll be able to do is to try to slow things a bit until the vaccines hit, and then emplore people to continue wearing masks even after they are vaccinated.

[Laelth]

9. I am more interested in treatments than a vaccine.

That said, thanks for the informative post.

-Laelth

[mpcamb]

4. NY and NEast US got it worst. 1/2 million people came in by plane before Europe was shut down

in March.
And, worst around international airport cities.
I think this may be valid.
I always wondered why epidemiologists weren't pointing to this
as the virus raged thru Southern Europe.

[LudwigPastorius]

6. Will they track the original source...

to Trump’s mouth-anus?


It wouldn’t surprise me given the massive amount of effluvia that issues forth from there.

[Texin]

8. Anecdotal reports from southern California indicated several outbreaks

of a virulent and severe respiratory illness in southern communities along the coast back in late October. Those tested were negative for flu. There were also several individuals on DU who live in the upper Midwest who noted such infections back in that Oct-Nov timeframe. I think it's quite likely that these could have been Covid-19.

[moreland01]

11. Unfortunately

I will ALWAYS, probably for the rest of my life, see trump's stupid orange face and asshole-like lips when I hear "China Virus".

My goal is to one day be able to laugh and feel relief at how we were able to get him out of office and save the world.

I still hate W and Dick Cheney to the bottom of my soul. And this hate for trump, trumpers and the trump family is WAY worse.

[Warpy]

12. It most likely originated in Asia, but probably not China

since its closest relative was found in pangolins, creatures whose range in China is extremely limited. They still don't know if there was an intermediary animal reservoir or if humans are that intermediary reservoir.

In any case, frozen tissue samples turned up documented cases in the US about the time Wuhan authorities were being alerted about a cluster of cases tied to a wet market. in town. The US wasn't looking for coronavirus. China was, they'd been on the alert ever since the SARS epidemic. The virus was on the move and most epidemiologists were predicting other outbreaks.

It's highly likely that the higher than expected death rate from seasonal flu that was experienced here last fall was actually Covid, circulating far under anyone's radar.

[intrepidity]

13. Here's the reason for the scepticism:

(from the link in OP)

Both Italian scientists said the antibody test was in-house designed and never validated by other researchers in a peer review.

Most of the scientists' scepticism focuses on the so called specificity of the antibody tests, that, if not perfect, might reveal the presence of antibodies to other diseases.