Sat Oct 19, 2019, 04:55 PM
BumRushDaShow (73,810 posts)
Boris Johnson sends unsigned request to Brussels for Brexit delayLast edited Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:52 PM - Edit history (2)
Source: The Guardian
Boris Johnson has sent a letter to European council president Donald Tusk requesting a further Brexit delay beyond 31 October. Despite the prime minister's insistence that he would not "negotiate" a further extension of the UK's membership of the EU, he confirmed on Saturday evening that he would be seeking such a prolongation. Shortly after 10pm London time Tusk tweeted: "The extension request has just arrived. I will now start consulting EU leaders on how to react." Reports suggested Johnson had sent three letters: an unsigned photocopy of the request he was obliged to send under the Benn act, an explanatory letter from the UK's ambassador to the EU and a letter explaining why Downing Street did not want an extension. An EU source said that in the call between Tusk and Johnson at 8.15pm Brussels time on Saturday the UK prime minister had confirmed that the request would be sent within hours. Tusk will now speak to the EU27 heads of state. "This may take a few days," the source said. Officials in Brussels said there was no doubt that an extension request would be granted, despite the prime minister's attempts to throw doubt on such a decision. A decision on the terms could be taken later in October to allow for events to unfold in London. Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/19/eu-will-grant-brexit-extension-if-johnson-sends-letter-says-brussels UPDATE: The Guardian updated their headline. Original headline - Boris Johnson sends request to Brussels for Brexit delay Here are the letters sent ( ![]() ![]() ![]() Tweet at the OP article site which includes an additional letter sent - Link to tweet TEXT Mehreen ✔ @MehreenKhn 🔔🔔 Here is the letter Boris Johnson has sent to Brussels tonight saying an extension would "damage" interests of the EU and UK 550 5:20 PM - Oct 19, 2019 ![]() ![]()
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18 replies, 2913 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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BumRushDaShow | Oct 2019 | OP |
samnsara | Oct 2019 | #1 | |
Denzil_DC | Oct 2019 | #3 | |
former9thward | Oct 2019 | #14 | |
AlexSFCA | Oct 2019 | #2 | |
BumRushDaShow | Oct 2019 | #4 | |
herding cats | Oct 2019 | #10 | |
muriel_volestrangler | Oct 2019 | #11 | |
Denzil_DC | Oct 2019 | #5 | |
BumRushDaShow | Oct 2019 | #6 | |
Denzil_DC | Oct 2019 | #7 | |
BumRushDaShow | Oct 2019 | #8 | |
abqtommy | Oct 2019 | #9 | |
Denzil_DC | Oct 2019 | #12 | |
BumRushDaShow | Oct 2019 | #13 | |
Denzil_DC | Oct 2019 | #15 | |
BumRushDaShow | Oct 2019 | #16 | |
Denzil_DC | Oct 2019 | #17 | |
BumRushDaShow | Oct 2019 | #18 |
Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 04:58 PM
samnsara (13,788 posts)
1. im confused..didnt he say..rather loudly..that he wouldnt?
Response to samnsara (Reply #1)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:12 PM
Denzil_DC (5,417 posts)
3. He also said loudly and repeatedly that there'd be no border in the Irish Sea,
which is exactly what the deal he's now so desperate to push through would bring about.
His deal is similar to but worse than the deal Theresa May brokered, which Johnson resigned from cabinet over then spent months trashing, rather loudly. His words are worth nothing. The fact he can't be trusted is adding to the difficulties in finding a resolution to the situation. |
Response to samnsara (Reply #1)
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 06:17 PM
former9thward (23,295 posts)
14. He didn't.
He did not sign the letter and argues against the extension in his letter. They are in the OP.
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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:06 PM
AlexSFCA (5,438 posts)
2. Why EU keeps approving these requests?
UK must bear collossal economic consequences or other countries will start leaving EU. When half the country finds itself in poverty, they’ll vote to rejoin EU in no time.
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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #2)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:22 PM
BumRushDaShow (73,810 posts)
4. I think because
the UK comes in 2nd in EU GDP behind Germany and as a unified bloc, the EU has more negotiating power and leverage with other trade blocs like the rapidly-forming Asian/Pacific trade bloc and the western hemisphere countries and our bloc (that is unfortunately disintegrating before our eyes
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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #4)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 08:29 PM
herding cats (16,917 posts)
10. Yes, exactly.
It's complicated but makes sense if you're paying attention.
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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #2)
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 03:18 AM
muriel_volestrangler (95,140 posts)
11. A No Deal Brexit would be really bad for Ireland too
Other EU countries would suffer a bit, the UK a lot, and Ireland just as much as the UK, if not even more. A hell of a lot of Irish goods go in and out through the UK, including those going to/from the continent. And the Republic doesn't want a hard border with the Real IRA attacking it.
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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:26 PM
Denzil_DC (5,417 posts)
5. The letter you've posted on the OP isn't the extension request.
It's Johnson's little whine about having to send the letter mandated by the Benn Act, purely for his fans and the over-excitable Sunday papers.
They in fact sent three: (1) a covering letter, (2) the letter you've posted above, and (3) the actual extension request. Johnson didn't sign the extension request, but legally that means nothing, and Tusk has accepted receipt of the request, says he's now acting on it, and has seemingly ignored the other one. Here's the covering letter: ![]() Here's the extension request: ![]() The wording of the request is precisely as stipulated by the Benn Act. |
Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #5)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:30 PM
BumRushDaShow (73,810 posts)
6. Thank you. I just included the tweet that was included in the OP link's article
I had seen mention that something like "3 letters" were apparently sent by Johnson.
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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #6)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:35 PM
Denzil_DC (5,417 posts)
7. You're welcome, I completely understand the confusion.
It's rare to see a two-page tantrum on government notepaper. In a 280-character tweet, maybe ...
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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #7)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:53 PM
BumRushDaShow (73,810 posts)
8. I added the images of those letters to the OP
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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 07:20 PM
abqtommy (7,465 posts)
9. Like tRUMP, Bo "ya doesn't have to call me Johnson" Jo has a lot of Class. Unfortunately,
it's all of the Low variety
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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 06:39 AM
Denzil_DC (5,417 posts)
12. Here are some interesting observations from Mike Hind about framing and PR in politics
and how the headline in the OP plays into Johnson et al.'s hands.
It has some relevance to the situation with Trump in the USA, too. (Note to moderators: it's a Thread Reader transcript of a Twitter thread, so I don't believe it's subject to the usual four-paragraph limit on quotes.) Downing St wants you to kick off about him not signing the letter.
This is a perfect example of Lakoffian framing. The fact is that an unelected Prime Minister has again been humiliated by an elected Parliament. A short explainer... To win the PR air war you need to be first, with a fresh message, no matter the setback you just suffered. That's how you manipulate the media. By giving them a new story, to distract from the bad story. Vote Leave (which is basically now the government) has been very adept at this. Remember when the Electoral Commission ruled that Vote Leave had broken electoral law? They instantly declared the EC as "politically biased". The story then? VL accuses EC of political bias? See? That is what we call framing. Today's story is now about Johnson's 'defiance', rather than his humiliating political failure. In the age of social media, those adept at framing have millions of people to manipulate. Most of us aren't aware of much comms theory, so we are easily manipulated into amplifying these talking points. I too have been momentarily tempted to post some snarky 'hot takes' on Johnson not signing the extension request & sending a contradictory note. But reality bites when you spot the framing. Today's story, behind the framing flannel, is that Johnson preferred to die in a ditch than do the thing he has been forced to do. As ever, well-meaning people will argue the toss on this. Because often the last people to spot skilled manipulation are the skillfully manipulated. Anyway, this is how to react David Allen Green If you're inspired to better understand framing, a good follow to consider is @dirktherabbit who consistently shines a light on these tactics Framing is what the best journalists cut through, to bring you the real story. Which is why @BethRigby is one of my go-to sources for insight, rather than gossip Jenni Russell ✔ I should also recommend @jennirsl, who is calling out the same problem Jenni Russell ✔ What actually happened Link to tweet If you'd like to journey into the deeper subtleties of framing this, by @zephoria, is a brilliant introduction. “Media Manipulation, Strategic Amplification, and Responsible Journalism” by danah boyd link.medium.com/Y5OvWhqZV0 https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1185797486708961280.html |
Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #12)
Sun Oct 20, 2019, 07:19 AM
BumRushDaShow (73,810 posts)
13. The fact that he has had defeat after defeat after defeat
to me means this has been nothing more than some kind of "face-saving" gesture ("never admit defeat" ). Compared to the "master" of distortion, obfuscation, and distraction here in the U.S., Johnson's antics are pretty tame. What Parliament does (and notably those in his party and/or in coalition) will be critical regarding how far he can go and where he will go.
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Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)
Mon Oct 21, 2019, 07:32 AM
Denzil_DC (5,417 posts)
15. Two developments on this today.
(1) It's been confirmed by the EU that Johnson's attempt at distraction by not adding a handwritten signature to the request letter is just that - the extension request is valid without it:
Link to tweet Adam Parsons ✔
@adamparsons EU source tells me “it is of no consequence at all” that Boris Johnson didn’t sign the extension request letter (2) The Scottish Court of Session has reconvened to hear its earlier adjourned case compelling Johnson to comply with the Benn Act by sending the letter and seeking an extension without trying to subvert the process though any other communication (the Padfield principle). Although the accompanying signed two-page letter sailed close to the wind by saying Johnson didn't want an extension, it was carefully drafted not to infringe on the principle. As a result, Lords Carloway and O'Neill, who are hearing the case, have decided to continue it, effectively placing Johnson and the government under supervision. If they do appear to violate the Padfield principle during the rest of the extension request process, the court will reconvene again. This is the best outcome from the case. Johnson's special adviser Dominic Cummings was briefing on Saturday that they were prepared to fight this in the Supreme Court if necessary, and some in the media were very excited at the prospect of more drama. Now they won't have the chance for such a grandstanding, rabble-rousing distraction. |
Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #15)
Mon Oct 21, 2019, 07:40 AM
BumRushDaShow (73,810 posts)
16. Thanks for the update!
Looks like it will be one of these -
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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #16)
Mon Oct 21, 2019, 07:47 AM
Denzil_DC (5,417 posts)
17. That's EXACTLY what it is!
These developments didn't seem to be significant enough for a new OP, so this felt like a good place to post them (what's posted in the threads above should be enough to bring people up to speed if they haven't been following all this in detail).
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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #17)
Mon Oct 21, 2019, 11:16 AM
BumRushDaShow (73,810 posts)
18. Looks like Bercow said "no" for reintroduction
So now the fuzzy exit needs some details with legislative meat -
Boris Johnson Suffers Another Brexit Setback
By The New York Times Oct. 21, 2019 Updated 11:21 a.m. ET LONDON — Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s Brexit plans ran into yet another roadblock, when a parliamentary official ruled that Mr. Johnson could not try again on Monday to win Parliament’s approval for his agreement with the European Union. The ruling by John Bercow, the speaker of the House of Commons, could have cleared the way for a showdown vote Monday evening on the deal that Mr. Johnson struck last week with officials in Brussels. The prime minister had hoped to win parliamentary approval on Saturday, but he was blocked on a narrow vote, and Mr. Bercow ruled that the Commons could not legally take up the matter for a second time on an identical proposal. “It would be repetitive and disorderly to do so,” he said. After the vote on Saturday, Mr. Johnson was forced to send a letter to the European Union requesting a further Brexit delay. Having vowed that Britain would leave as scheduled on Oct. 31, with or without an agreement in place, the prime minister also sent a separate letter arguing against a postponement. The ruling is not a final defeat for Mr. Johnson’s plan. He could still win approval for it by getting Parliament to pass a far more detailed bill laying out the terms of Britain’s departure, though his opponents are likely to attempt to block that proposal as well. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/21/world/europe/boris-johnson-brexit.html We need this kind of rule here that goes along the lines of “It would be repetitive and disorderly to do so” - notably with the 70+ times the GOP had tried to repeal the Affordable Care Act. ![]() |