Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 02:11 PM Jan 2019

Venezuela protests: thousands march as military faces call to abandon Maduro

Source: The Guardian

Tens of thousands of Venezuelans have taken to the streets of the country’s capital in what opponents of Nicolás Maduro hope will prove a turning point for the country’s slide into authoritarianism and economic ruin.

Venezuela’s president, who started his second term on 11 January after disputed elections, is facing a reinvigorated opposition as well as increasing international hostility from the rightwing governments of the US, Brazil and Colombia.

Wednesday’s march follow two nights of violent protests in working-class neighbourhoods of Caracas – once bastions of support for the government – and the apparent foiling of an armed uprising by members of the national guard.

Early on Wednesday, protesters in eastern Caracas braved an early morning downpour, shouting in unison: “Who are we? Venezuela! What do we want? Freedom!”

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/23/venezuela-protests-thousands-march-against-maduro-as-opposition-sees-chance-for-change

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Venezuela protests: thousands march as military faces call to abandon Maduro (Original Post) oberliner Jan 2019 OP
Looks Maduro might finally go down Amishman Jan 2019 #1
This is a scary situation.... Hulk Jan 2019 #2
Its been a mess for years with food and prescription drug shortages, kids starving in shanty towns mastermind Jan 2019 #4
Venezuela is not a socialist country, it is a dictatorship Perseus Jan 2019 #6
Its a democratic country that has a hard fasicist right minority. juxtaposed Jan 2019 #8
It hasnt been a democratic country for YEARS. A true free vote hasnt been held for a long time. oldsoftie Jan 2019 #12
Which mainstream party in Venezuela GatoGordo Jan 2019 #18
It may not be in reality a "socialist government".... Hulk Jan 2019 #9
Humanity suffers from being enamored by many myths.... KY_EnviroGuy Jan 2019 #21
The drop in oil prices Sgent Jan 2019 #20
Venezuela has the world's largest oil reserves... brooklynite Jan 2019 #3
That depends on the price of oil. Scruffy1 Jan 2019 #11
Let's Hope It Isn't Too Violent PaulX2 Jan 2019 #5
Amen oberliner Jan 2019 #7
Hopefully the troops will soon side with the people. oldsoftie Jan 2019 #13
their Bolivarian revolution has come to a sticky end, i think 0rganism Jan 2019 #10
Cuba is an example of "success"? oldsoftie Jan 2019 #14
"success" in transitioning from state capitalism to socialism, yes 0rganism Jan 2019 #34
Ok. Got it. thank you for the clarification oldsoftie Jan 2019 #37
"successfully making the move from state capitalism to socialism is Cuba" EX500rider Jan 2019 #17
I can't think of a single "win" anywhere for Socialism GatoGordo Jan 2019 #28
No matter what your politics are, there is no denying that Hugo Chavez was more effective Polybius Jan 2019 #15
What about Caldera? oberliner Jan 2019 #16
I never heard much about him Polybius Jan 2019 #30
Seems like some of the pre-Chavez folks were fairly effective leaders oberliner Jan 2019 #39
Madura had the good fortune to die before things got bad GatoGordo Jan 2019 #19
Huh? oberliner Jan 2019 #24
my response was to Polybius GatoGordo Jan 2019 #26
But Madura is still alive oberliner Jan 2019 #27
Mea culpa (EOM) GatoGordo Jan 2019 #35
He likely meant to say Hugo Polybius Jan 2019 #29
Yes he was. he died before he was able to finish running it into the ground & stealing everything. oldsoftie Jan 2019 #38
Here are some sites to keep track of latest news from Venezuela.... KY_EnviroGuy Jan 2019 #22
Thank you for sharing those links oberliner Jan 2019 #23
One thing is a given here, and not discussed much... KY_EnviroGuy Jan 2019 #25
Protestors on TV enid602 Jan 2019 #31
Can you shed some more light on that? oberliner Jan 2019 #32
Caracans enid602 Jan 2019 #33
I married a Venezuelan mestizo GatoGordo Jan 2019 #36
The pictures seem in line with the demographics to me: EX500rider Jan 2019 #40
can't tell from this picture GatoGordo Jan 2019 #41

Amishman

(5,563 posts)
1. Looks Maduro might finally go down
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 02:23 PM
Jan 2019

I'm seeing reports on Twitter that at least one general (Mendoza) is siding with the opposition. The military was the only thing propping up Maduro

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
2. This is a scary situation....
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 02:25 PM
Jan 2019

The "prime example" of failed socialism is in deep peril these days. Since oil has dropped in value, the country's economy is in shambles, and the people are suffering terribly with shortages and riots.

I hope that, somehow, they can peacefully come to a resolution that will get them on an even keel. Of course, the dRumpf government is doing everything to make things worse for the citizens.

We think we have it bad. This is the country that fox and the talking heads from the reich wing continue to bring up as to what is in store for us if we listen to Sanders, OAC, and other progressives. Shameful sons of bitches.

 

mastermind

(229 posts)
4. Its been a mess for years with food and prescription drug shortages, kids starving in shanty towns
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 02:38 PM
Jan 2019

the industrialist libertarians have been doing everything they can to keep socialism from taking root. The government has corruption problems and is really a mess generally. The people are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The US was involved in the 2002 failed coup attempt to remove left-populist president Hugo Chavez & have no doubt they are still involved in this mess.

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
6. Venezuela is not a socialist country, it is a dictatorship
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 03:15 PM
Jan 2019

Socialism is the entry, the rhetoric that all communist dictators use to enamor the people, it is full of beautiful populist arguments to bring the struggling masses to support them, once in power the tentacles of communism which is nothing other than a cruel and repressive dictatorship.

Socialism is a myth, there is no country in the World that is "Socialist", you do find "Social-Democratic" regimes which do work very well.

Venezuela is one the most corrupt countries and what people need to learn from it is the methodology that was used to destroy it, because that is exactly what trump and his minions are trying to do. I hope that the orange buffoon is not able to give his SOTU in Congress, because if he defies the rule and is allowed to do it with TV cameras showing it, that action will prompt more disregard from them and it is all downhill, very rapidly, from that point on.

Dictators begin their quest through populism, they defy the rule of law, they make demonstrations like the one the buffoon is threatening to do by having the SOTU, against the command of the powers who control it, do it anyway and walking away from it untouched...be very aware of those demonstrations of power, it is like taking a tiny sip of your tea to make sure it is not hot, and once you know its not, you drink it in a big gulp.

oldsoftie

(12,721 posts)
12. It hasnt been a democratic country for YEARS. A true free vote hasnt been held for a long time.
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 10:08 PM
Jan 2019

Hopefully this horrible failure will be over soon and the people WILL be allowed to reclaim democracy.

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
9. It may not be in reality a "socialist government"....
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 07:48 PM
Jan 2019

....but it is ALWAYS the example fox and the reich wingers drag out to scare their viewers and listeners. Such bull shit. Socialism isn't actually a government, in my opinion, but rather the act of a government looking out for the welfare the common people. Best examples are Scandinavia and several other western countries in Europe.

We just like to keep our ignorant masses in fear. "Watch out for OAC and Bernie....they're going to turn us into Venezuela." So g'damned absurd!

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,513 posts)
21. Humanity suffers from being enamored by many myths....
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 05:40 AM
Jan 2019

such as the ones called free markets, security and individualism. However, like socialism, those are all very fluid terms subject to political winds.

Corruption, pathological grandiosity and greed may well be our worst common enemies, all of which have plagued our entire history.

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
20. The drop in oil prices
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 01:20 AM
Jan 2019

has nothing to do with the problems in Venezuela.

The amount of oil output is less than 1/3 of what it was, and VZ has managed to run off all of its industry through corruption.

brooklynite

(95,254 posts)
3. Venezuela has the world's largest oil reserves...
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 02:32 PM
Jan 2019



Makes Maduro the equivalent of Trump running a Casino that actually lost money.

Scruffy1

(3,258 posts)
11. That depends on the price of oil.
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 09:53 PM
Jan 2019

Nearly all of the reserves are in the form of Orinico crude. Most of these reserves only become reserves when the price of oil reaches $100 per barrel because their reserves are similar to tar sands and require a lot to produce and refine. Even if the pricIt's not a coine goes up they probably couldn't increase production a lot because iy would take huge amounts of capital to upgrade old sysytems and build new ones and they have burned most of their bridges to the wealthy ciuntries. My guess is they will either become Chinese or Russian dominated in order to survive. It's no coincidence that countries that have lots of oil (including the US) have screwed up politics.

 

PaulX2

(2,032 posts)
5. Let's Hope It Isn't Too Violent
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 02:54 PM
Jan 2019

Maduro has all the guns.

So did Yanakovich too.

Sometimes it doesn't help.

oldsoftie

(12,721 posts)
13. Hopefully the troops will soon side with the people.
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 10:10 PM
Jan 2019

But I wont think it'll be this time, sadly.

0rganism

(24,028 posts)
10. their Bolivarian revolution has come to a sticky end, i think
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 08:07 PM
Jan 2019

from the revolutionary government of Hugo Chavez seizing the state, implementing state capitalism, they fell into Maduro's autocratic regime, then the oil market failed on them, and now the world has another failed socialist half-revolution to gawk at.

so far, the only one that's successfully making the move from state capitalism to socialism is Cuba. doing so is clearly quite difficult.

oldsoftie

(12,721 posts)
14. Cuba is an example of "success"?
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 10:14 PM
Jan 2019

Well thats a good one. Last I checked a good number of them are still fleeing to HERE.

0rganism

(24,028 posts)
34. "success" in transitioning from state capitalism to socialism, yes
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 01:39 PM
Jan 2019

the overwhelming majority of socialist and communist states never make it past the state-capitalism phase, where the government nationalizes businesses and industries. as far as i know, of the revolutionaries, only Cuba has taken the next step in the process.

that doesn't mean it's a fantastic place to live.

EX500rider

(10,903 posts)
17. "successfully making the move from state capitalism to socialism is Cuba"
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 10:55 PM
Jan 2019

Sure, if you don't mind living in a police state.

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
28. I can't think of a single "win" anywhere for Socialism
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:17 AM
Jan 2019

Plenty of democracies have Socialist elements (the Nordics, etc) but socialism as an economic theory cannot exist without Capitalism to feed it.

Polybius

(15,587 posts)
15. No matter what your politics are, there is no denying that Hugo Chavez was more effective
Wed Jan 23, 2019, 10:36 PM
Jan 2019

I'm no Chavez fan either, but he was a far more effective leader, commanded more respect, and was a lot smarter than Maduro.

Polybius

(15,587 posts)
30. I never heard much about him
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 10:40 AM
Jan 2019

Or I wasn't paying attention then. Hugo was always all over the news.

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
19. Madura had the good fortune to die before things got bad
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 01:07 AM
Jan 2019

Otherwise he would be just as vilified.

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
26. my response was to Polybius
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:14 AM
Jan 2019

Chavez would be just as vilified as Maduro right now. The only thing Chavez had that Maduro doesn't is charisma. He was a dynamic entertainer who could go on and on for hours (we now know why, thanks to journalist and former Chavist Eva Golinger) in his cadenas.

Had Chavez not gotten cancer and died, he would be in the same position as Maduro... he and his cronies bled Venezuela dry. They nationalized every viable business and promptly ruined them. He did exactly what he railed on and on about, the COPEI and AD thieves. Only worse

The best thing that could have ever happened to Venezuela is that Chavez never got cancer and it is he who would be getting this reckoning. Far too many Venezuelans consider him God-like. He certainly does have a cult of personality there. Though two days ago, El Pueblo burned down a statue of him.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
27. But Madura is still alive
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 08:17 AM
Jan 2019

You seemed to be suggesting that he was dead - that's why I was confused.

oldsoftie

(12,721 posts)
38. Yes he was. he died before he was able to finish running it into the ground & stealing everything.
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 02:40 PM
Jan 2019

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,513 posts)
22. Here are some sites to keep track of latest news from Venezuela....
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 05:57 AM
Jan 2019
Caracas Chronicles (good stuff in "The Economy" section)

https://www.caracaschronicles.com/

And, an associated Twitter account that carries up-to-date news:

@CaracasChron

https://twitter.com/CaracasChron

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,513 posts)
25. One thing is a given here, and not discussed much...
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 06:47 AM
Jan 2019

no matter who wins this battle, Venezuela has a very, very long road to recovery considering decades of corruption and mismanagement. From what I've read, their oil industry has been gutted of most all expertise to return it to full viability and they will have tens of thousands of returning expats to eventually deal with.

It's hard to imagine an entire nation afoul with corruption and graft: the government (local and federal), the military, industry, small business and their media. And, they have the Chavez/Maduro cult to deal with.

Like many other nations, the corruption is so entrenched and endemic, they need a huge reset button to hit and just start from scratch. Who could possibly unwind such a mess?

To quote, from Caracas Chronicles:

Venezuela has lived through so many calamities in the last few years, we always tend to fall into the trap of thinking it can’t get any worse. It can get much, much worse. A civil war would obviously invite international intervention, on both sides. A Caribbean Syria, layered on top of a pre-existing food crisis, could make 2018 look like the good-old-days in retrospect.

........ .........

enid602

(8,710 posts)
31. Protestors on TV
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 11:50 AM
Jan 2019

I couldn’t help but notice that the vast majority of protestors are Caucasian or light skinned mestizo. I’ve spent time there, and this is not a true reflection of Venezuelan diversity.

enid602

(8,710 posts)
33. Caracans
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 12:19 PM
Jan 2019

I remember Caracans of a wide spectrum of skin tones. When I googled Venezuelan demographics, I learned that racial demographic statistics are not kept on that country. It just said that most Venezuelans are mulato, mestizo or criollo. Most of the protestors I saw on TV were lighter skinned.

 

GatoGordo

(2,412 posts)
36. I married a Venezuelan mestizo
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 02:08 PM
Jan 2019

and lived in Venezuela for a time. I have family there, and they are ecstatic about the changes occurring hourly.

The poorer areas of Caracas (the western barrios) are filled with a wide range of skin tones, from black as night to white as a sheet. It is these areas that voted for Chavez diligently. The richer areas (eastern Caracas) were more gentrified, more light skinned.

What separates the protests now from earlier protests (2014 and prior) is that El Pueblo (the Chavez voter from the urban and rural poor areas) have taken up the protest. There are a LOT of dark skinned protesters now. As a matter of fact, the fiercest, bloodiest fighting has been in Chavista strongholds.

Maduro doesn't give the least shit about his previous supporters. He cares about his precious Bolivarian Revolution. He would LOVE to spin this as some sort of racist war, but it isn't. It's nothing but the Castroists trying to spread their cancer as far as they can. And now that the Chavez/Castro clique has been broken (an previously envied economy in ruins), Maduro has shown his true face. As a matter of fact, Diosdado called upon the PSUV faithful to surround Miraflores and hold vigil through the night and NOBODY showed up.

EX500rider

(10,903 posts)
40. The pictures seem in line with the demographics to me:
Thu Jan 24, 2019, 05:28 PM
Jan 2019


About 51.6% of the population is Mestizo, while 43.6% are white of European ancestry and/or Middle Eastern ancestry. Another 3.7% is black/African, while 2.7% is of full Amerindian ancestry, and 1.0% other races ( principally Asian people
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Venezuela protests: thous...