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Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:02 PM

 

Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Being Investigated for Alleged Sexual Misconduct

Last edited Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: Vanity Fair

Fox and National Geographic are investigating new sexual misconduct allegations against Cosmos host Neil deGrasse Tyson. The latest accusations come after Tchiya Amet, who attended graduate school with Tyson, publicly accused Tyson of drugging and raping her while they went to school together in 1984.

Two other women have now come forward with allegations against Tyson. Dr. Katelyn N. Allers, an associate professor of physics and astronomy at Bucknell University, says that Tyson groped her at an after party for the American Astronomical Society in 2009. At the time, Allers said, there wasn’t a good way to report her allegations to the society.

The other woman is Ashley Watson, Tyson’s former assistant. She says that Tyson made many sexual advances towards her, and that she ended up quitting her job because she felt uncomfortable around Tyson. When she confronted him about his behavior, she said, he allegedly told her that she was too “distracting” to ever be able to advance in her career field.

On the heels of these new accusations, Fox and National Geographic have launched an investigation. “We have only just become aware of the recent allegations regarding Neil deGrasse Tyson. We take these matters very seriously and we are reviewing the recent reports,” the networks said in a statement. The producers of Cosmos also released a statement of their own: “The credo at the heart of Cosmos is to follow the evidence wherever it leads. The producers of Cosmos can do no less in this situation. We are committed to a thorough investigation of this matter and to act accordingly as soon as it is concluded.”


Read more: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/neil-degrasse-tyson-is-being-investigated-for-alleged-sexual-misconduct



Edit to Add:

He has released a statement in response to these allegations on his FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/on-being-accused/10156870826326613/

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Reply Neil deGrasse Tyson Is Being Investigated for Alleged Sexual Misconduct (Original post)
oberliner Dec 2018 OP
Cartoonist Dec 2018 #1
kag Dec 2018 #8
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pecosbob Dec 2018 #3
True Dough Dec 2018 #60
atreides1 Dec 2018 #85
quickesst Dec 2018 #4
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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:11 PM

1. We take these matters very seriously

Except for one of our own.

I'm not making excuses for Neil, just laughing at Fox.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:36 PM

8. I noticed "Fox" was the first word of this "news" story.

That colored it for me. I'm not saying there's no "there" there, but it's hard to take any investigation by Fox into any allegations of sexual misconduct seriously. I'll wait till someone with some credibility does the story.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:12 PM

2. This will make me sad

and I also note the difference between someone who is a critic of the current President and someone who is a huge supporter of the current President. For Tyson, this likes means, at best, retirement in disgrace... for Judge Kavanaugh. a lifetime appointment to SCOTUS.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:17 PM

3. 'FOX' investigating sexual misconduct?

Anyone wanna buy a bridge?

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Response to pecosbob (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:03 PM

60. Perhaps they could

put inspectors O'Reilly and Ailes on the case!

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Response to True Dough (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 09:15 AM

85. Well

Ailes is dead, so he won't be inspecting too much, and O'Reilly has fallen in love with his loofa!!!

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:17 PM

4. true or not...

"she said, he allegedly told her that she was too “distracting” to ever be able to advance in her career field" kind of reminds me of..."it's my right as an entertainer."

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Response to quickesst (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:08 PM

12. That "it's my right as an entertainer" alleged quote was so obviously phony...

I'm of the mind the "too distracting" remark is also phony.

And since FOX is involved I'm withholding judgment.

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Response to brush (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:58 PM

57. I know

Remarks you wouldn't think would come from the person who it is attributed to. Seems out of character and not very believable. We'll see.

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Response to brush (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 11:09 PM

106. Franken immediately denied making that comment

 

NDT has not disputed the "too distracting" remark in his statement.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:25 PM

5. Dammit

 

This makes me sad for many reasons.

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Response to BeneathTheMire (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:34 PM

7. Aye and it will be sad if this is true and ruins his career however there is a chance for him still.

How? Well by not making any excuses nor blaming the women and simply being upfront, admit he screwed up and issue a heartfelt apology but the key is the apology has to be truly a heartfelt one otherwise its empty and thus meaningless.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:17 PM

15. Agreed on the harassment claims

As a man, I can't speak for women and how much bad past behavior is too much to forgive. But, the best anyone can do who has behaved irresponsibly in the past, but no longer does, is to apologize to the best of their ability and demonstrate through the way they live that they have changed. People can change, or, at least, mature. Also, anyone who has harassed or degraded anyone should be apologizing immediately. Not waiting for it to become public. If a public figure is accused by a third party of harassment of someone, but a heartfelt apology has already been made and accepted, then there is no reason to dwell on it.

However, the drug and rape accusation is clearly a bridge too far. It is absolutely justice that Cosby went to prison for it and, if Tyson is guilty of it too, he also needs to end up in prison. I certainly hope it's not true not as I've always admired him, but I think we've all learned that expecting people we admire will never disappoint us is often futile.

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Response to BeneathTheMire (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:48 PM

101. #MeToo

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:30 PM

6. This is just so disappointing and unfortunate.

If this is determined to be true, it is a great loss. He added so much to our understanding of the universe we live in. Cosmos was a wonderful series. The second season will probably end up shelved.

What is wrong with some people and their need for power and dominance? I just don't get it.

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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:44 PM

10. Oh, I get it.

Power is both seductive and sexy. Not only are people told how "great" they are, but they begin to believe it more and more. Only the strongest of humble hearts can take power without being corrupted.

And then there is the "sexy" part of it. I'm reminded of Monica Lewinsky's recent explanation that went something like, "I couldn't believe that this man, whom everyone wanted, wanted ME." I've been there. It is extremely alluring, and feeds the already overgrown ego of the powerful.

It's all very superficial, but also very human.

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Response to kag (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:04 PM

11. Yes.

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Response to kag (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:26 PM

18. I know, you're right. It feeds their ego.

You would think that being on top of one's game would be enough. But there is an element of sociopathy in this behavior, lacking all concern for how they hurt other people. That is the part I find most disturbing.

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Response to madaboutharry (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 03:03 AM

81. Absolutely disturbing.

In Tyson's case, while very disappointing, I can at least understand the behavior. I'm guessing he had women coming on to him a lot, and at some point his humility failed him...that is, if the stories turn out to be true. I'm willing to wait until a REAL investigation is done rather than pass judgment based on a Fox report.

Still, I feel for his wife and kids.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:40 PM

9. We need strong clear voices in science. THIS SUCKS.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:11 PM

13. Why are men w/dicks such pricks?

n/t

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Response to Botany (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:17 PM

14. Lovely generalization

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Response to Botany (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:20 PM

16. And I should note.....

it's a bit premature to attack him based on the accusations that have been reported.

We eat our own before our enemies have a chance.

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Response to Red Mountain (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:23 PM

17. What makes you doubt the accusations?

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:43 PM

20. Why the lack of doubt in regards to the accusations?

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:57 PM

23. Watson reported his behavior at the time to a supervisor and to the relevant harassment hotline

 

She also reached out via text to another woman who made a similar claim.

The details that she presents about what occurred seem credible, and I am not sure what motivation there would have been for her to fabricate them.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:32 PM

37. Doubt them?

Why is 'belief' under these circumstances considered a virtue, in your opinion?

Serious allegations deserve serious investigation. Due process and all that. Less satisfying than a quick rush to judgement but better for our society in the end.

That said, doesn't look good for him.

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Response to Red Mountain (Reply #37)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:38 PM

38. The Moral Imperative of #BelievetheWomen

 

If all women were believed when they said they had been sexually harassed or assaulted, the world might very well split apart, as poet Muriel Rukeyser cautioned might happen if even one woman told the truth about her life.

What the #MeToo movement has revealed is not only how widespread the many forms of sexual assault and abuse of women are, but also how widespread are the suppressive mechanisms that cause women to be disbelieved when they try to tell what has happened to them.

This is on full display since Christine Blasey Ford, a research psychologist at Palo Alto University in Northern California who has come forward with an accusation of sexual assault against Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh. Ford has claimed “a drunken Mr. Kavanaugh pinned her on a bed, groped her and covered her mouth to keep her from screaming. “I thought he might inadvertently kill me,” she was quoted as saying. “He was trying to attack me and remove my clothing.”

In my volunteer work as a rape crisis counselor, I have heard this story all too many times from many different women, some telling me what happened to them decades before, something they never dared tell. So, of course, the mechanisms of suppression of the truth of women’s lives are now out in force, spinning lies and conspiracies about Christine Blasey Ford. Conspiracies about revenge, or liberal plots and so forth are now metastasizing online.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/religionnow/2018/09/the-moral-imperative-of-believethewomen-brett-kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford/


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Response to oberliner (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:46 PM

39. There's a moral imperative to justice

and as much as you would like it to be that isn't quick and easy.

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Response to Red Mountain (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:40 PM

99. Agreed

 

The idea that I support is encouraging the less powerful to not be intimidated into silence which had been the norm for many years. For a long time, the starting place seemed to be to dismiss women who made such claims - a better starting point would be to believe them.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 09:02 PM

70. Believing women means that their claims are taken seriously

It doesn't automatically mean the accused is guilty on those claims.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #70)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:38 PM

98. Agreed

 

It does not appear that this person's claims were taken seriously by that production company.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 09:08 PM

71. I think accusations should be investigated, but not "believed."

To clarify, any accusation should be taken seriously and investigated to the best of our ability, and the facts should be followed wherever they lead.

But this idea that every accusation must instantly be "believed" is troubling because it undercuts due process. The accused are protected by the presumption of innocence until the facts prove them guilty. You can't simultaneously believe the accusation and allow for the presumption of innocence.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that accusations be proven before the accused is punished.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #71)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:08 PM

94. The incident does not appear to have been investigated

 

That is part of the problem.

The woman made this complaint, spoke directly to the person in question, reported the incident via the relevant sexual harassment hotline and talked to a supervisor.

She was advised that quitting was the right decision and that "she should tell everyone she had a family emergency to avoid more uncomfortable situations."

As it turns out, his description of what occurred pretty much corroborates hers.

There is no assertion that this incident involves any crime being committed or anything like that - so we are not talking about involving the judicial system. It is merely something that companies thinking of giving a television program to this person ought to take into consideration when making the decision.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 08:23 PM

92. Oh, Brother!

More shit stirring
Believe The Women doesn't mean what you imply, and you know it!

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #92)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:13 PM

95. Nothing is being implied

 

I presented the article because I generally agree with the sentiments expressed therein. Generally speaking, we should do what we can to help encourage less powerful people to feel comfortable in coming forward if they feel that they have been harassed sexually or otherwise by more powerful people in the workplace. For too long, the opposite has been the case.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:35 PM

19. This makes me profoundly upset.

I am a big fan. Damn.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:46 PM

21. This saddens me deeply

I really thought he was one of the good guys.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:54 PM

22. I'll patiently await his response.

I'm sure you will as well.

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:06 PM

25. Why?

 

I certainly don't care what his response is.

I would, however, be interested in seeing the results of an investigation.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:17 PM

30. Thanks for your honesty.

And consistency.

Why indeed?

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:25 PM

33. Of course

 

I have no idea why you (or anyone else) would be "patiently waiting" for his response to this.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #33)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:42 PM

49. That's a shock.

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:48 PM

53. NDT: "I'm the accused, so why believe anything I say? Why believe me at all?"

 

"That brings us back to the value of an independent investigation, which FOX/NatGeo (the networks on which Cosmos and StarTalk air) announced that they will conduct. I welcome this."

I share his sentiments on that.

As I wrote in my earlier response, an independent investigation is what I would be interested in seeing.

Having now read his response on FB, it seems to corroborate just about everything Ashley Walker asserts.

He admits to the "If I hug you I might just want more" remark, the intense Native-American spirit handshake, the inviting her over for wine, etc.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #53)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:04 PM

61. He sounds simply horrid.

An "intense Native-American spirit handshake"?

Lock. Him. The. Fuck. Up.

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:44 PM

100. Lock him up? What are you talking about?

 

This is about alleged workplace sexual harassment, not criminal activity.

The only consequence ought to be that companies take this report into consideration when determining whether or not to give him his own television show.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #53)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 11:48 AM

155. Not sure about these accusations. The assistant was creeped out by him, and he apologized. He did

Not touch her in the hotel room with wine and cheese. He sat across from her? Maybe he hinted at something but nothing untoward happened. The tattoo woman was filmed and in front of a lot of people. I think it was misinterpreted. Maybe later she thought about it and didn't like it, but not sure this is crossing the line. The rape accusation of 30 yrs ago I am not sure I believe. They had a sexual relationship that didn't work out.

I will look forward to the investigation and see if others step forward.

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Response to Pisces (Reply #155)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 01:54 PM

156. Sexual harassment need not involve touching

 

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:57 PM

24. I'll wait for more facts and evidence before concluding too much

I'll be saddened if it turns out to be true. I liked him and what he offered.
But if it is true, I hope the alleged victims get justice.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:06 PM

26. Such as what?

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:12 PM

28. Ask Al Franken

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:19 PM

31. Have you read what Ashley Watson has asserted?

 

If so, do you find her credible?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:22 PM

32. Have you read Neil deGrasse Tyson's response to what Ashley asserted? nt

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:27 PM

35. Does that mean you are not answering the question?

 

In response to your question, I do not believe there is any public response from him available to be read.

Ashley Watson, however, has a detailed description of the incident in question that is publicly available.

Have you read it?

If so, do you find it to be credible?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:48 PM

40. I think it is a rhetorical question that provides an answer

I've looked it over and take it seriously. Sadly, it might be true.

"Credible" is defined as "able to be trusted or believed"
I don't know Ashley Watson. I'm not at a point where I can be sure what she is telling us can be "trusted or believed"

I'm a firm believer in due process.
I believe a person is innocent until proven otherwise.
Since I have not heard a peep from Tyson in response nor seen a shred of evidence beyond the allegations, I'm going to wait before getting sucked into a media rush to judgment and declare Ashley's allegations "credible". Because all they are right now is hearsay allegations that warrant looking into.

If I had to place odds on it, I'd guess with more than one woman coming forward and from what I've seen so far, my eyebrows are raised and it doesn't look good for Tyson. But I have to leave open other possibilities until we have more evidence and facts established by police, science or independent third parties or maybe something else.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:18 PM

43. He's made a statement on FB

 

I added it to the OP.

Having read it, he seems to corroborate most of what Ashley Watson said (though he presents the intentions of those actions differently).

He admits to inviting her to his apartment for wine and cheese one-on-one and to giving her that specific "Native American handshake" that she described and to saying to her "If I hug you I might just want more”.

He also does not deny her claims about the other things he is alleged to have said in the conversation that she found sexually suggestive and inappropriate.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:52 PM

55. I'm not clear why I should give Ashley's version any more weight than Neil's

at this point.

Neil's response seems reasonable.
"For a variety of reasons, most justified, some unjustified, men accused of sexual impropriety in today’s “me-too” climate are presumed to be guilty by the court of public opinion. Emotions bypass due-process, people choose sides, and the social media wars begin.

In any claim, evidence matters. Evidence always matters. But what happens when it’s just one person’s word against another’s, and the stories don’t agree? That’s when people tend to pass judgment on who is more credible than whom. And that’s when an impartial investigation can best serve the truth – and would have my full cooperation to do so."


I think it advisable to heed his words and let an "an impartial investigation" sort this out rather than rushing to conclude one person's verbal version is more credible than another's.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #55)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:06 PM

63. I read Neil's version and he still comes off a bit odd in it.

I'm not sure if it crosses into an area of it being misconduct, but also need to keep in mind he's likely trying to put in the most benign light possible. I am interested in hearing the responses to his response to make further judgement myself.

I'm not really sure what sort of further investigations could be made with that. I mean, other than hearing each other's responses.

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Response to xor (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:31 PM

67. I looked over a number of the Facebook responses and some under the articles

https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/on-being-accused/10156870826326613/

I cannot conclude from them that Ashley's allegations are any more credible than his denial.

This does not look very sinister to me:


You posted "I'm not really sure what sort of further investigations could be made "
If this is all we're going to get, then I simply could not convict him on what I have read so far.

What we have seen with people like Bill Cosby is more women and more evidence come forward for example. So I'll note the allegations and see what happens over time. Until then, the man is innocent.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #67)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:51 PM

68. My take on the issue with the production assistant is using his own explanation

The older more powerful person inviting the younger underling to their place to drink wine by themselves is always something that raises my suspicions. Stuff like that always put the subordinate in an awkward situation. That's even in non-sexual situations such as them asking the person to help them move or whatever. Plus he said he said some weird stuff about wanting more if he got a hug, and the weird "special handshake". Those by themselves are probably nothing, but all together and it makes me think he may sometimes cross lines.

I'm not really sure there is anything there to convict him with anyway. Well, except for the original one which I'm not sure what to make of that. That is an actual accusation of rape.

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Response to xor (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 09:18 PM

74. When my father went to college, he roomed with the warden of a prison

That warden maintained 33% of the men in there for rape were innocent.
It was before I was born. Never met the man. I do not know how he arrived at those conclusions.
But my father believed him and cautioned his sons accordingly.

I am still bothered by what happened with Al Franken.
I'm not convinced he was what he was being made out to be. I do not think he handled it well.
We've got good principles. We need to adhere to those as best we can so that innocent people don't get maligned.

At the same time, we have the Weinstein or Bill Cosby horrors and we have to listen to women that come forward and do what we can to get to the bottom of these allegations so that decades of this do not continue. That is the good part about MeToo - I think more women are coming forward and that alone will curtail some of these perpetrators because they now are being held to account. We have to take their stories seriously and with discretion.

I guess it is like LGBT rights or racism. We've made some headway but still have a lot of work to do.

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Response to xor (Reply #68)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 11:47 PM

109. NDT probably lacks social awareness

Many geeks have that issue.

I think the following are about all you can read into this.

* NDT wanted to have an affair with her and put her in an awkward situation
* He took "No means No".

2 of the 3 women have given sufficient comments that show there was no sexual assault. The facts are not known on the first woman.

The part though which I'm having issues with is that these represent three very different social graphs and all three stories came forward without much "press" meaning that it sounds like these stories were collected by someone with an agenda.

L-

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Response to Lithos (Reply #109)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 01:24 AM

123. You can hear from the journalist directly and draw your own conclusions about his agenda

 

https://www.benfamajr.com/reality-trip/2018/12/2/david-g-mcafee-neil-degrasse-tyson-sexual-misconduct-allegations-reality-trip-ep114

If you get a chance to listen to this podcast, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

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Response to Lithos (Reply #109)

Sun Dec 9, 2018, 10:54 AM

170. Have you had a chance to listen to the podcast/interview with the journalist?

 

If so, what is your impression of what his agenda might be?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #170)

Sun Dec 9, 2018, 02:56 PM

171. Self promotion

He has purposefully injected himself into this so the story becomes more about him.

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Response to Jarqui (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:06 PM

42. I agree

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:07 PM

27. About a year ago a friend said she didn't like Tyson and she thought he was creepy

I asked why and she pointed to some story about him sexually assaulting some lady. I never heard of this story and wasn't too sure what to make of it. I did a bit of research and learned that no one really covered it because she didn't come off as credible. There was issues with dates that didn't match up and there were no records of her being a student, and a bunch of other things. The story was also being pushed by a writer at patheos.com who seems to have a real dislike for Tyson.

These ones seem a lot more credible, though. I hope they are not true because that would be a huge disappointment. It is an interesting dilemma on how you investigate these without it appearing that you're doubting a possible victim, but also ensuring we're giving the accused a fair shake.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:13 PM

29. Oh, crap!

Next thing we'll find out is that Jesus was a pedophile. Or that Stephen Colbert only played a conservative on his last show.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:27 PM

34. Oh Nooooooo. Please please please don't let this be true. nt

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:28 PM

36. I am one of the few people here

who does not care for the man. I find him arrogant and condescending. He has become a show biz scientist, much like Dr. Phil is a TV psychologist.

Still, I will not judge him based on accusations. He deserves a thorough investigation into the allegations.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 08:04 PM

91. I find Dr. Phil to be absolutely reprehensible.

I don't believe Dr. Tyson deserves to be compared to him.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #91)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 02:58 AM

125. No, I don't think Tyson is as bad as Dr. Phil

but I feel like he has become more a celebrity than a scientist. I watched the entire Cosmos program and eventually I grew really tired of Tyson, as if he was upstaging the science.

I remember a time when it was either Neil deGrasse Tyson or Derrick Pitts who would show up on the news when there was a story about space. Personally, I preferred Pitts. He was informative with a sense of humor, but never came across as arrogant.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #91)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 03:13 AM

126. Here, this says it better than I did

What do physicists think about Neil deGrasse Tyson?

Physicists don't think much of Tyson because they can't gain anything from any accomplishments or advancements he has made in scientific endeavors. Physicists talk a lot about other physicists, but not Tyson because they see no value to anything he adds. He plays fast and loose with details in order to excite people, which is more fun and games than real science.

He has a charismatic personality and demands attention when on stage. He is a contrast to so many hard working, cautious scientists who accomplish so much for the betterment of mankind, but get behind a microphone and mumble in a rambling, incomprehensible monotone. Tyson is ALL about image and would object if his unique middle name were not used and he didn't have the podium a lot.

Physicists don't put Tyson in nearly as high a regard as Tyson puts himself.


https://www.quora.com/What-do-physicists-think-about-Neil-deGrasse-Tyson

We’ve seen NdGT completely misrepresent philosophy (Physicists Should Stop Saying Silly Things about Philosophy) and biology (#BiologistSpaceFacts: A Parable on Doing Your Research). He misrepresented a fair amount of history in Cosmos. And since he’s a scientist, I hold him to a greater standard than Gladwell—NdGT should know better.


https://www.quora.com/What-do-physicists-think-about-Neil-deGrasse-Tyson

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #126)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 10:34 AM

151. Sounds like some jealousy is afoot.

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Response to brush (Reply #151)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 11:32 AM

154. Perhaps

Though I think some people like him and others don't for various reasons.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:03 PM

41. For what it's worth (and if you are on Facebook):

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Response to Habibi (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:20 PM

44. And FWIW, as a man, I find his response also credible /nt

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Response to al bupp (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:35 PM

47. "If I hug you I might just want more."

 

He admits to saying that "on a few occasions" to a woman who is working as his production assistant.

He also admits to inviting her to have "wine and cheese" with him in a one-on-one setting where something occurred that resulted in her coming to his office the next day to tell him that she was "creeped out" and for which he "apologized profusely".

He admits to offering her a "special handshake" designed to "feel the other person's vital spirit energy".

This was then apparently followed by the "If I hug you I might just want more" remark that he admits to making.

She then immediately quit this job - even though, as he says, there were only a few days left of production - and, according to her own account, reported the incident to a supervisor and to a company sexual harassment hotline.

None of the basic facts of what she alleges occurred seem to be disputed by him.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:58 PM

56. You sound as if you're practiced in the art of seduction.

Hubba, hubba, hey?

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:02 PM

59. I'm practiced in the art of standing up for those who are treated inappropriately by powerful people

 

And helping to amplify their voices and giving them support however I can.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #59)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:06 PM

62. OK.

Or you're just a scold with sensitive knees.

Who knows, really?

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #62)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:24 PM

66. What in bloody hell is that supposed to mean? nt

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Response to oberliner (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 09:14 PM

73. I'll say this, he seems guilty of saying something dumb

and making Ashley feel uncomfortable enough to quit. By his telling, he apologized for being oblivious to her discomfort at the time:


At that last meeting in my office, I apologized profusely. She accepted the apology. And I assured her that had I known she was uncomfortable, I would have apologized on the spot, ended the evening, and possibly reminded her of the other social gathering that she could attend. She nonetheless declared it her last day, with only a few days left of production.

I note that her final gesture to me was the offer of a hug, which I accepted as a parting friend.


He welcomes an investigation. What more should he do?

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Response to al bupp (Reply #73)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 09:52 PM

76. I don't think there is anything more he should do

 

I think there should be an investigation, as he does, and that the relevant companies should decide if they want to move forward with producing his shows or not.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 04:30 PM

88. you have changed the order of what happened

He said that "if i hug you...." thing on the set, not when they had wine and cheese at his house, according to him.

Furthermore, you are making the Indian handshake sound creepy by leaving out that feeling the other person's 'vital spirit energy' meant putting his finger on her pulse on her wrist.

Stop being so catty.

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Response to scipan (Reply #88)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 09:54 PM

93. No, I haven't

 

She says that he made the "If I hug you I might just want more” comment after the "Native American spirit handshake" during the "wine and cheese" evening. In his statement, he says that he made that comment "on a few occasions". He does not dispute that the "wine and cheese" evening was one of those occasions, so there is no reason to doubt her claim that he made that comment that evening (as well as on other occasions).

The handshake was identified by the woman as being creepy. Her description was that it "involved holding hands tightly, making eye contact, and feeling for each other’s pulse" - which basically matches his description as well. She called it "awkward and incredibly intimate" and cited it as one of the reasons she felt the need to speak with him the next day, talk about the incident to a supervisor, report the event to the relevant sexual harassment hotline, and quit her job.

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Response to al bupp (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:44 PM

50. Agreed /nt

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Response to Habibi (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:23 PM

45. Yes, that response was added to the OP

 

He seems to corroborate pretty much everything that Ashley Watson says.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:23 PM

65. Thanks. I missed that edit. nt

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:24 PM

46. Has anyone here read his response?

Have you noticed that these kind of stories involve people who are anti trump?

Is anyone here waiting for an investigation

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:38 PM

48. His response seems to corroborate everything Ashley Watson claims

 

From the "If I hug you I might just want more" remark to the inviting her over for wine to the "deep, spiritual handshake" thing to her speaking to him in his office the next day about what occurred to her quitting her job immediately thereafter. He also throws in that he "apologized profusely" so apparently he must have understood that he did something worth apologizing for.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #48)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:44 PM

51. None of it warrants him being called a rapist.

Who hasn’t done as much in their life,?

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:51 PM

54. There was a different person who made that accusation

 

And his version of events and hers differ considerably (to say the least). Since that one was much longer ago, it might be harder to get all the facts - and I agree that it would be unfair to lump everything together.

That said, his actions towards his production assistant appear to be inappropriate and worth investigating further.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:00 PM

58. The right wing is behind this

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #58)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 10:14 PM

80. Wouldn't surprise me.

The fact that she suddenly quit right after he apologized, with just a few days left of the job, and reported it every which way, is, to put it politely, troubling.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 10:12 PM

79. I'm beginning to think the Shakers were right after all

although in the end they all died off.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #48)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 09:09 PM

72. What am I missing? During the wine and cheese at his place they sat on opposite...

sides of the table and there was no touching at all.

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Response to brush (Reply #72)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 09:35 PM

75. You are missing an agenda, prurient imagination, or twisted sense of victimhood.

Other than that, nothing.

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 09:59 PM

77. Is that the same as someone being upset that they didn't get hit on?

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Response to brush (Reply #72)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:24 PM

97. What did he "apologize profusely" for?

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #97)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 11:40 PM

108. Read his response

I only just learned (nine years after) that she thought this behavior creepy. That was never my intent and I’m deeply sorry to have made her feel that way. Had I been told of her discomfort in the moment, I would have offered this same apology eagerly, and on the spot. In my mind’s eye, I’m a friendly and accessible guy, but going forward, I can surely be more sensitive to people’s personal space, even in the midst of my planetary enthusiasm.


She attended a function, asked for a picture with him. She had a tattoo of the solar system and he raised up the sleeve to get a broader view.

This occurred under a camera - so here is the picture of the incident. The story says she believes he did not respect a woman's bodily autonomy.



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Response to Lithos (Reply #108)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 12:01 AM

110. I'm talking about the Ashley Watson incident

 

From this past summer.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #110)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 12:10 AM

113. Ok

The profuse apology was to the 2009 event.

The 2018 apology was a case where she came to him afterwards and the situation of going to his house had made her feel uncomfortable.

L-

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Response to Lithos (Reply #113)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 12:25 AM

115. The profuse apology was to the 2018 event not to the 2009 event (according to his FB statement)

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #115)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 12:59 AM

118. Right

Sorry - was going back and forward on it - you're right.

1980's - woman claimed rape and use of a "mickey"
2009 - The Pluto tattoo
2018 - The wine and cheese incident.

The journalist seems to be working very hard to spin this.


Amet has continually spoken out for years, making separate blog posts in 2014, 2016, and 2017. She even filed a police report, despite the fact that the statute of limitations on her criminal claims had expired (If more victims come forward, that limitation could be voided). Yet no one is investigating, and some people wonder why.


https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/exclusive-neil-degrasse-tysons-rape-accuser-gives-first-public-interview/

This story actually first came out in 2016, but did not hold together. Part of the reasons why it fell apart then will likely come out - it's a shame that this reporter chose to not comment on those details as well. I am thinking this is a case where the reporter is making the story and not reporting the facts. This is a huge disservice to both parties here.



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Response to Lithos (Reply #118)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 01:06 AM

120. I am only commenting on the 2018 incident

 

The facts of which do not appear to be in dispute.

What seems to be in dispute is whether or not what took place constituted sexual harassment, inappropriate behavior, or something innocent and benign.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #120)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 01:22 AM

122. Agreed

I think this is an intent type of thing. I would have to know more about the two personalities involved before I could/would could fully distinguish between sexual harassment and/or inappropriate behavior.

But at this time - my guess is that NDT viewed the relationship as bigger than the work one - given the expansive detail. However, I also believe she did not. This asynchronous piece would result in a very uncomfortable experience and probably would be the equivalent of sexual harassment in how it would affect her, even though I think Neil intended it as innocent and/or benign.


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Response to brush (Reply #72)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 09:04 AM

141. Yeah I don't get it

I would not consider any of that worth reporting to anyone.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:45 PM

52. Has DeGrasse been nominated for a government position recently?

Just looking around for any Kavanaugh threads.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:13 PM

64. No, he just has a new show about to premiere

 

On Fox of all places.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 10:02 PM

78. bingo. n/t

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 08:54 PM

69. I certainly hope this isn't true.

But if it is it will certainly be very sad to me. Sad that he did it and with his education level needed to still resort to his baser desires.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 07:30 AM

82. The Hugger

Practically everyone she knows on set gets a daily welcome-hug from her.

That statement by Neil can be verified. That kind of person is creepy. Did she ever ask any of her victims if they wanted a hug?

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #82)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 07:33 AM

83. This is why so many women don't come forward

 

Even now, they get comments like this.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #83)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 07:47 AM

84. Wait

Neil has been tried and convicted by you for giving a handshake.

Are you a woman? Would you like an unwelcome hug? Would you allow any man to hold your body in a tight embrace?

I'm a heterosexual male. I don't like getting hugs from some people.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #84)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 09:21 AM

86. No trial nor conviction by me

 

Last edited Sun Dec 2, 2018, 12:05 PM - Edit history (2)

I am simply saying that many women do not report sexual harassment because it can sometimes result in attacks against them, especially if the person who harassed them is famous, powerful, or well-liked.

Personally, I don't like being hugged by people either. But that is not germane to the behavior engaged in by NDT towards a subordinate which made her uncomfortable enough to tell him so the next day, report the incident to a supervisor, contact the company sexual harassment hotline and quit her job.

Based on NDT's own description of the events that transpired, which pretty much match exactly what Ms. Watson described, he behaved in a way that was grossly inappropriate (which he apparently recognized since he says he "apologized profusely" for said behavior) given both the behavior itself and his position of power over the production assistant.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #86)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 09:27 AM

87. I guess I misunderstood you

You said, "I certainly don't care what his response is."

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #87)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:51 PM

103. It is the same sentiment I believe he expressed in his statement

 

"I’m the accused, so why believe anything I say? Why believe me at all?

That brings us back to the value of an independent investigation, which FOX/NatGeo (the networks on which Cosmos and StarTalk air) announced that they will conduct. I welcome this."

Me too.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #86)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:56 PM

105. Grossly inappropriate is a stretch

Weird and awkward as described, but that’s it.

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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #105)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 10:08 AM

146. Respectfully disagree

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #86)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 09:12 AM

144. what was so grossly inappropriate?

Doesn't sound like he did anything to me. She was the one hugging him and he refused. His comment is flirtatious but not grossly inappropriate considering she started the hugging issue.

As for the invite for wine and cheese, there is nothing there. She could have not gone and left when she chose. The handshake thing sounds dumb.

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Response to treestar (Reply #144)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 10:09 AM

147. Everything that made her feel creeped out

 

And gave her the sense that he was trying to seduce her.

Have you read or seen the interview with the woman in question?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #147)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 10:43 AM

152. Made her feel creeped out and that he was trying to seduce her?

Geez, I could make 40 such accusations. Let's save it for more egregious cases.

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Response to treestar (Reply #152)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 02:11 PM

160. That is literally what workplace sexual harassment is

 

Unwanted sexual advances.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #160)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 04:43 PM

165. mere unwanted sexual advances made once

are not sexual harassment. If it continues, sure. But you'd have none made at work at all and that is not realistic.

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Response to treestar (Reply #165)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:57 PM

166. Yes they are

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #83)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 04:32 PM

89. Oh for crying out loud.

If a man was offering hugs to his co-workers repeatedly, don't tell me you wouldn't be singing a different tune.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #89)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:20 PM

96. OK

 

I am not aware of any harassment reports being made about her alleged offers of hugs, but if there were such reports then that should have been addressed as well (and could be taken into account by potential future employers).

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Response to oberliner (Reply #83)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 09:10 AM

143. That's not a fair statement here

Why don't men come forward either? Are they going to get much better treatment where the perpetrator is female? Probably get called wussies.

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Response to treestar (Reply #143)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 10:11 AM

148. I think it is

 

And I think there are a myriad of reasons why men do not come forward either.

Not saying anything and moving on is a lot less stressful than speaking up.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #148)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 10:17 AM

150. maybe if more people speak up on the spot

it would result in a lot less of this public type of thing. We should encourage that instead. Social awkwardness should not always result in legal consequences.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #82)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 09:09 AM

142. I wonder if any of those people were considered

to be working for her, in other words, was she in a position of authority over them?

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 07:41 PM

90. Even if true: which time will tell...

The science is still right.

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Response to LakeArenal (Reply #90)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 10:49 PM

102. ...

One can count on certain folks jumping on the slightest hint of someone on the left doing anything wrong

Nudge nudge wink wink

Not talking about you of course

And remember the beauty of the me too movement for the right as they don’t give a shit about women, women being abused sexually or otherwise, but they can use the issue against the left and will every chance they get.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #102)

Sun Dec 2, 2018, 11:25 PM

107. And certain folks will refuse to believe accusations against a person they like

 

Which is even more troubling.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #107)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 12:05 AM

111. The right thing to do is wait for the facts

It is the only way for justice to be served. The difference to be noted is that NDT is not trying to hide it, or proclaim youthful indiscretions.

Personally, this seems to resemble the case of Al Franken.

L-

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Response to Lithos (Reply #111)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 12:09 AM

112. ...

Ask our friend where are all the threads about all the right wingers who do this shit

Has nothing to do with holding our own accountable and they know that

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #112)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 12:19 AM

114. Not fully sure who originated the story

I think it's this guy: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/author/dmcafee/

I'm thinking it's a case of riding the #MeToo bandwagon to gain some notoriety, fame and money. The reaction I've seen from those who've posted on the Left are that the Left is eating another one of their own - to their great laughter.



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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #112)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 12:47 AM

117. Are you saying there aren't threads about right wingers accused of engaging in sexual harassment?

 

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Response to Lithos (Reply #111)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 12:45 AM

116. They were the only two people present and they have each given an account of what occurred

 

Their descriptions of what took place seem to concur with one another.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #116)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 01:05 AM

119. For 2 of 3, yes

The first accuser is where the offered facts differ.

This is also the one which the story started with, even though it represents a rehash of an article from 2016 from another journalist who felt that there were insufficient facts.

L-

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Response to Lithos (Reply #119)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 01:11 AM

121. That 1980s allegation is much more serious

 

That would certainly be worth investigating by some serious journalists to uncover more information (potentially).

My comments thus far have been limited to the Ashley Watson incident.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #121)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 01:48 AM

124. nod

There is a plausibility in her story which needs to be investigated. I also think there is far more to the story as presented and that this could easily cause harm to both parties.

L-

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Response to oberliner (Reply #121)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:00 AM

136. The Watson accusation seems odd. From what I understand she repeatedly wanted...

to hug him. He apparently got the idea that maybe she was interested in him so he finally flirted back with "I may want more."

The invitation for wine and cheese at his place after an event was probably his way of further gauging her interest. It led to just that, wine and cheese and conversation with both sitting on opposite sides of the table—no touching, no attempts to kiss, certainly no Cosbyesque date rape drugs. She even drove and was always free to go.

If he was a sexual abbuser or assaulter that was certainly the time and situation for it to happen. But nothing happened.

Maybe someone was disappointed that nothing did happen, maybe an ego was bruised.

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Response to brush (Reply #136)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:10 AM

137. He also said that everyone on set got a daily hug from her

 

So it would seem odd that he would interpret her hug attempts as flirtatious interest in him if she was hugging everyone else on the set as well on a daily basis.

I am reminded of this report from CNN:

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Response to oberliner (Reply #137)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:44 AM

140. But nothing happened but wine and cheese and conversation. Hardly sexual abuse/assault.

And I guess that video is supposed to mean something?

She could've just dropped him off without going in but she went in.

And again, nothing happened. The accusation is beginning to sound bogus.

Curiously he has a new show about to debut and is even more prominent.

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Response to brush (Reply #140)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 09:57 AM

145. I certainly don't think that incident constitutes sexual abuse or assault

 

The most that I am suggesting is that it was an incidence of workplace sexual harassment (which is what the woman is claiming).

I am also responding to your assertion that:

"He apparently got the idea that maybe she was interested in him so he finally flirted back"

You seem to be making that assertion based on the reference to hugs. However, as I pointed out, NDT also notes that she gave daily hugs to every person on the set.

He further notes that he was aware that she was engaged, and she apparently talked about her fiance since he says that he knew he was a chef.

With those facts in mind, it seems not credible to me that he would have thought she was making advances towards him (nor does he assert that he believed that she was).

In terms of the accusation "beginning to sound bogus" - pretty much everything she has accused him of has been corroborated by his own statement (and nothing she claims has been disputed by him or anyone else).

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Response to oberliner (Reply #145)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 10:12 AM

149. Accused him of? Nothing happened but wine and cheese. There was no touching.

They had a conversation. He found out there was no interest. She went home.

Encounters like that happen thousands of time a day as that's how many relationship's germinate or don't.

Sexual assaulters are the ones who aggressively seize on a situation like that and force themselves on someone.

Again, nothing happened, the project was ending in a week and she wouldn't even see him anymore. What was there even to report? She felt awkward?

He probably felt awkward too as he found out he maybe misinterpreted her hugs as interest.

There is also the other side of it.

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Response to brush (Reply #149)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 02:05 PM

159. Sexual harassment need not involve touching

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #159)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 02:15 PM

162. But there was no harassment, no sexual come on, no touching, no trying to force himself on her.

It seems like a misunderstanding, certainly no need to report him and endanger his career since nothing sexual happened.

If something sexaul did happened of course you report it.

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Response to brush (Reply #162)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 03:30 PM

163. She says that he came on to her sexually

 

Her exact words were: "he tried to seduce me into having sex with him."

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Response to oberliner (Reply #163)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 04:29 PM

164. It's got to be more detail than that. Seems just him inviting her was trying to seduce her.

That's way too vague, don't you agree?

That's why an investigation is need. Her saying that is certainly not enough.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #102)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 11:17 AM

153. O I know who you mean. 😉😉

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 03:14 AM

127. Someone is driving this stupid attack on Neil deGrasse Tyson as a personal racist hate campaign

and I whole-heartedly believe anyone who is interested in peddling it to other people is just as monstrous as the creator of this new avenue for racists, not to mention any names. They know who they are and so does everyone else.

As anyone with one cell of grey matter can so easily see, he is an intelligent, enthusiastic, outgoing person wholly caught up in his work, it's his life's work, his passion and he thoroughly enjoys any chance he can encourage others to look into the subject, whih actually should interest them all, and discover the wonder, too, and how it can change lives, lift them up, give them new perspective.

Anyone who insists on trying to drag him through the mud, to involve dirtballs in haggling over how to interpret his plain English words, to read things into them, distinguishes him/herself as someone needing to be recognized as a complete a-hole, but then, they probably were noted long ago. They should be reminded that you say more about yourself than you do about the target of a rabid a-hole's hatred at a respected African-American scholar, scientist, distinquished personality.

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #127)

Tue Dec 4, 2018, 09:31 AM

169. Diversion from the Epstein story.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 03:34 AM

128. More shit stirring , oberliner is now in the Auto-trash by Keyword .

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #128)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 04:59 AM

129. +1

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Response to betsuni (Reply #129)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 06:41 AM

131. You really think it's better to have no article about this posted here?

 

Even though it has been reported on in every major news outlet?

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Response to oberliner (Reply #131)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 06:53 AM

132. It's not me, it's you.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #132)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 07:59 AM

134. I don't understand this response

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #134)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:33 AM

138. You're the one who responded to a +1.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #138)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 01:55 PM

158. Good point

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #131)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 07:56 AM

133. "Alan Dershowitz identifies himself as 'a Hillary Clinton liberal Democrat.'"

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Response to betsuni (Reply #133)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 07:59 AM

135. He does

 

He used those exact words in response to a question from the NY Times.

Not sure what that has to do with this story though.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #135)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 08:33 AM

139. WhataboutHillary!

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Response to betsuni (Reply #139)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 01:55 PM

157. Huh?

 

Hillary is great.

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #128)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 06:28 AM

130. This is an article in Vanity Fair

 

The story has also been covered by CNN. NBC, ABC, NPR, the NY Times, the Washington Post and every other major news outlet.

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #128)

Mon Dec 3, 2018, 02:12 PM

161. +1

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Response to stonecutter357 (Reply #128)

Tue Dec 4, 2018, 12:29 AM

167. It has never been a good fit, for sure. +1. n/t

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Response to Judi Lynn (Reply #167)

Tue Dec 4, 2018, 09:10 AM

168. What do you mean by that?

 

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