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jpak

(41,758 posts)
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 04:51 PM Jul 2018

Putin: Christianity is the foundation of the Russian state

Source: ABC News

Vladimir Putin says the adoption of Christianity more than 1,000 years ago in territory that later became Russia marked the starting point for forming the Russian nation itself.

Putin's comments came Saturday in a ceremony marking the 1,030th anniversary of the adoption by Christianity by Prince Vladimir, the leader of Kievan Rus, a loose federation of Slavic tribes that preceded the Russian state.

Speaking to thousands of clergy and believers at a huge statue of the prince outside the Kremlin, Putin said adopting Christianity was "the starting point for the formation and development of Russian statehood, the true spiritual birth of our ancestors, the determination of their identity. Identity, the flowering of national culture and education."

<not much more>

Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-calls-christianity-foundation-russian-state-56884314



Murderous despot "Christian"
59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Putin: Christianity is the foundation of the Russian state (Original Post) jpak Jul 2018 OP
And poison. dalton99a Jul 2018 #1
Vlad and Republican Jesus a perfect match. sarcasmo Jul 2018 #2
Gotta admit, this heartless jackal is good. The Best Villain. byronius Jul 2018 #3
Holy Mackerel! At least we have separation of church and state in the good old USA Achilleaze Jul 2018 #4
Meah. As far as I'm concerned the churches and state are too close together. Scruffy1 Jul 2018 #43
I was thinking.... SergeStorms Jul 2018 #44
Many upon many Iliyah Jul 2018 #5
Including the freaking Pilgrims Achilleaze Jul 2018 #6
Code word sent to the RW evangelicals in the US. roamer65 Jul 2018 #7
Yeah, that was my first thought, too. Lindsay Jul 2018 #10
absolutely - my exact thought Locrian Jul 2018 #56
+1 uponit7771 Jul 2018 #59
Christianity and ALL other religions are the foundation of bullshit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SamKnause Jul 2018 #8
Bingo! stopbush Jul 2018 #17
and NOVOCHOK is the cement that holds it together bucolic_frolic Jul 2018 #9
That would be West European political thought. Igel Jul 2018 #46
Putting on my best Russian accent Rural_Progressive Jul 2018 #11
No it's not. Money is the foundation of... paleotn Jul 2018 #12
Putin believes in Christianity like he believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster DFW Jul 2018 #13
No kidding: dalton99a Jul 2018 #19
Those priests have quit a racket. KY_EnviroGuy Jul 2018 #26
I thought religion was the opiate of the people... rocktivity Jul 2018 #14
Looks like it is. defacto7 Jul 2018 #32
Putin Preaches The Prosperity Gospel! DoctorJoJo Jul 2018 #15
This is propaganda videohead5 Jul 2018 #16
The evangelical church of putin goes right along with democratisphere Jul 2018 #18
There is a recent law that forbids evangelizing outside of the church in Russian Maggiemayhem Jul 2018 #25
and he's got the polonium to prove it, by gawd. deminks Jul 2018 #20
And he steals from Ukrainian History Paula Sims Jul 2018 #21
Does Kyivian mean from Kiev? nt SunSeeker Jul 2018 #42
Don't oversimplify. Igel Jul 2018 #47
Expect a similar statement from Trump anytime now. C Moon Jul 2018 #22
Cue the fucking Cossacks. Scurrilous Jul 2018 #23
Blessed be the holy jb5150 Jul 2018 #24
He is copying republucan wedge issues. He's mirroring. applegrove Jul 2018 #27
Believe it or not, the US is not the center of Russian political thought. Igel Jul 2018 #48
And gun rights? applegrove Jul 2018 #54
Tell that to the families of all those he's martyred. KY_EnviroGuy Jul 2018 #28
was that true when he was kgb ? JI7 Jul 2018 #29
We should not allow him They_Live Jul 2018 #30
The Russian Orthodox Church is practically a branch of the old KGB SemiHalfling Jul 2018 #31
Snort Solly Mack Jul 2018 #33
You just know the reich-wingers are jumping up and down and screeching: Aristus Jul 2018 #34
He wants to make Russia great again Progressive dog Jul 2018 #35
Hmmm, what sort of Christian? Vogon_Glory Jul 2018 #36
Americans have a scant impression of most denominational differences. Igel Jul 2018 #49
Evangelicals are pickier Vogon_Glory Jul 2018 #53
Feel sorry for the other religions in Russia... Xolodno Jul 2018 #37
Explains much Liberalagogo Jul 2018 #38
Total gas lighting by Vlad Botany Jul 2018 #39
Putin is about as Christian as Stalin was. nt SunSeeker Jul 2018 #40
trump and Putin running the same game with Christianity... brush Jul 2018 #41
Religion is for those who don't olddad56 Jul 2018 #45
Isn't this sacrilege? Bayard Jul 2018 #50
I think we can all agree that Christianity is NOT the basis of democracy. stopbush Jul 2018 #51
This is his way of sweeping in the American evangelicals. Ilsa Jul 2018 #52
everyone upset about this should also feel the same about Israel, which has followed yurbud Jul 2018 #55
playing to American dominionists. nt Grasswire2 Jul 2018 #57
Personally unless he has said this before then my gut goes with him saying it now as a means of cstanleytech Jul 2018 #58

byronius

(7,394 posts)
3. Gotta admit, this heartless jackal is good. The Best Villain.
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:02 PM
Jul 2018

Nice move, Vlad. He'll put on any disguise that serves him.

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
4. Holy Mackerel! At least we have separation of church and state in the good old USA
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:03 PM
Jul 2018

Don't we? Or has Pooty Poot in secret occulted meetings redeemed the wretched soul of republican Comrade Dirty Donny* and his cabal of KGOP republican cronies? In which case - gasp - we might already be under the strangling grip of a systematically deceitful and treasonous kristo-fascist cult right here in the Land of the Free.

Nah. It can't happen here.

* aka republican Draft-dodger-in-Chief

Scruffy1

(3,256 posts)
43. Meah. As far as I'm concerned the churches and state are too close together.
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 02:51 AM
Jul 2018

Every Presidential candiadate has to aver their belief in the sky god or not get elected. The media pretty much accepts beliefs, whether sincere or not, equal to rational facts. We allow the churches all across America to not pay property taxes when a lot of them are just big money making making machines and even if they weren't the rest of us have to pay their share. This alone means I am subsidizing someone elses beliefs through property taxes weather I am an owner or renter. At one time the largest property owner in my city was the Lutheran Church. I have seen preachers give many poltical speeches from the pulpit and never seen one lose their tax exempt status. I guess I would rather have freedom from religion.

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
44. I was thinking....
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 03:03 AM
Jul 2018

a few days ago what Frank would think of Americans' ever decreasing intelligence, and their willingness to cozy up to someone whose IQ is barely larger than his shoe size. Someone who can be played the fool by the ex-head of the KGB, and despises the Constitution as much as Donald Trump.

I think Frank would view him as an alien from another planet. In any conversation Frank would rip him to shreds. Could you imagine a debate between Frank and Little Donnie? Little Donnie wouldn't be able put a complete sentence together. :surrunder: Frank would kick his moronic ass.

You were taken from us much to soon Frank. We miss you and wish you were here for this "special" time in American history.

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
5. Many upon many
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:04 PM
Jul 2018

immigrats came to the USA for religious FREEDOM. Oh how the so called "Christians" forget that.

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
6. Including the freaking Pilgrims
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:07 PM
Jul 2018

They were being persecuted in Europe because their brand of Christianity was not the favored brand at the time and place, and the other guys had more swords and guns. So they ran away from Christian persecutors, and set up their own persecution system in the New World.

Progress, they call it. Pilgrim's Progress.

Lindsay

(3,276 posts)
10. Yeah, that was my first thought, too.
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:17 PM
Jul 2018

But it likely works well for the True Believers in both countries. They're the easiest of marks.

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
56. absolutely - my exact thought
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:05 PM
Jul 2018

The alliance between the two "christian nations" will now commence.

SamKnause

(13,103 posts)
8. Christianity and ALL other religions are the foundation of bullshit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:13 PM
Jul 2018

All religions should have to prove their bullshit myths and lies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Separation of Church and State !!!!!!!!!!

bucolic_frolic

(43,161 posts)
9. and NOVOCHOK is the cement that holds it together
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:17 PM
Jul 2018

Seriously, Vlad is tilting his windmill at centuries of political thought. Hobbes, Descartes, Rousseau should be very scared of being displaced.

Igel

(35,303 posts)
46. That would be West European political thought.
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:08 AM
Jul 2018

I've seen that described as "white" and "supremacist" in not acknowledging other traditions. The Enlightenment is responsible for a lot of the world order, but only as the result of Western imperialism (and it's under assault now by quite a few people). China, India, Africa, Islamic countries and also the Orthodox 'world' have their own traditions.

It's the one I like, if only because given the balancing assumptions that held for most of that kind of thinking it worked really well, but some think I was probably alive back then. Mostly kids with no sense of history. "It's before I became aware of things 3 years ago, and what, didn't Descartes live in the '60s?" "No, 1600s." "There's a difference?"

During the Enlightenment feudalism was hitting its high point in Russia. The Enlightenment didn't have much sway there. Some of the tsars bought into a bit, but the masses didn't. Then there was the Revolution, which was Marxist (sort of), not based in Hobbes, Rousseau, or Descartes.

However, it pays to point out that the kreshchenie of Kievan Rus'--Moscow wasn't in existence at the time, and the northern regions weren't part of the territory at the time--occurred after Kievan Rus' existed. Most of the population wasn't baptized at the time, and it wasn't like conversion was an easy, quick affair. In fact, "Kievan" is unnecessary, it was just Rus', and the "Kievan" part came along even though the center was around Kiev only because Russians decided that they were the "true" Rus'.

Rural_Progressive

(1,105 posts)
11. Putting on my best Russian accent
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:23 PM
Jul 2018

"I am very much wishing to be Emperor of Holy Russian Empire" - King Putintine the First

paleotn

(17,913 posts)
12. No it's not. Money is the foundation of...
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:30 PM
Jul 2018

The gas station masquerading as a country. Stolen money that is. And it's not a "state" in the western sense. It's a kleptocracy russian style.

DFW

(54,378 posts)
13. Putin believes in Christianity like he believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:39 PM
Jul 2018

But he is no fool. He has studied how the manipulation of the masses can be achieved thru simulated religious piety. Look how Trump has the so-called "religious right" solidly behind him without even knowing how many testaments there are in the Bible.

dalton99a

(81,485 posts)
19. No kidding:
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 06:02 PM
Jul 2018
"Serving the Fatherland" — a new monument dedicated to Vladimir Putin:



Putin The Great receives church's blessing:



Russian Orthodox priests bless Putin's troops, weapons:










KY_EnviroGuy

(14,491 posts)
26. Those priests have quit a racket.
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:24 PM
Jul 2018

I'll bet Trump and Betsy DeVos will be dreaming of starting a huuuge corporation just to supply priests to bless all of America's armaments.

Just think, with our massive military at $100 a pop, the money that could be made!.....

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
18. The evangelical church of putin goes right along with
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:52 PM
Jul 2018

the evangelical church of drumpf.
The whole damn thing is a fraud.

Maggiemayhem

(809 posts)
25. There is a recent law that forbids evangelizing outside of the church in Russian
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:16 PM
Jul 2018

I don’t think you can even have bible study with friends in your own house. So any evangelicals that worship Trump and Putin can emigrate there with my blessing. I’ll even pitch in a couple bucks towards moving expenses.

Paula Sims

(877 posts)
21. And he steals from Ukrainian History
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 06:15 PM
Jul 2018

Sorry dude - Kyivian Rus isn't Russia - it's Ukraine. But what else is new - he always steals things not his.

Igel

(35,303 posts)
47. Don't oversimplify.
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:40 AM
Jul 2018

Kievan Rus' at the kreshchenie didn't include all of Ukraine and included some parts that aren't usually considered Ukraine. Two hundred years later, at its height--where we usually think of Rus' as being--it reached to the Baltic. Few put Pskov or Muroma in Ukraine.

It's like saying Cahokia was (partly) in Missouri, therefore the Missouri state government somehow claims Cahokia. The connection is weak.

In 882 Russian didn't have phonemic palatalization, Ukrainian hadn't lenited *g, jers were still around and the vowels that shifted after jer-fall hadn't even starting to think about shifting. There were definitely isoglosses between the larger dialectal boundaries, but they weren't that strong.

In the case of Russia, the Horde provides a sort of negative link between Rus' and Russia. Rus' had a weakish monarchy, with the rulers for quite a while making sure that it was a not subject to centrifugal forces by rotating heirs between power centers. At the same time, the assembly in Rus' wielded a fair amount of power. It was more democratic than most of Europe; perhaps England with the Magna Carta is similar, along with the Germanic territories (coincidence that Varangians were likely Norse?). I like to think that Novgorod's later system was a continuation, but I don't think I was taught that.

The Horde revised Rus' system rather thoroughly (as in "totally replaced it&quot , and imposed the system they'd learned from those they adopted their faith from. It was confessional, with a strong merger of church and state. If you were a religious community your religious leaders were the point of contact with your overlords: They'd communicate to their people what the rules were, were responsible for ensuring compliance, and if the community needed divergent rules for use "in house" (among themselves, typically out of sight of the majority) the religious leaders were responsible for promulgating them. There was no real difference. In Russia, the patriarch and the grand duke/tsar' went hand in hand. The religious leaders had to bless the secular leaders and the secular leaders had to follow the dictates of the religious leader. Later, if the religious leaders fell afoul of the secular leaders one of the two tended to vanish. After Ivan IV that was usually the religious leader.

It's utterly false for Russia to claim the legacy of Rus'. It's father is the Horde. It's mother is the Orthodox church.

But while Ukraine was the home of most of Rus', it's not like much of the Rusian legacy remains in Ukrainian thinking.

Igel

(35,303 posts)
48. Believe it or not, the US is not the center of Russian political thought.
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:42 AM
Jul 2018

They have their own country, tradition, and issues. They're not all pale imitations of the United States.

Orthodoxy isn't a wedge issue. It's a unifying issue. It's a nationalistic issue for Russians. Both by itself, but it also has a tangential implication in Ukraine, where the breakaway church there is struggling to claim patriarchal independence from Moscow. But, again, that's unifying.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,491 posts)
28. Tell that to the families of all those he's martyred.
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:28 PM
Jul 2018

Actually, in many areas of Russia, vodka is the foundation of the Russian state.....

SemiHalfling

(53 posts)
31. The Russian Orthodox Church is practically a branch of the old KGB
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 08:05 PM
Jul 2018

They exert a lot of influence on the seminaries and church politics here in the OCA too, and by extension the priests, philosophy, messaging etc. Lots of outreach to eager zealous evangelicals as well. Can’t confirm their exact level of influence but my parents’ priest has been flown over to Russia on the parishioners dime at least once and is very receptive and aggressively defensive of their ideology.

It’s sad to see their daily and weekly emails left open in my mother’s email inbox harping on the pitiful sinful state of humanity, the misguided nature of democracy and free thought (not kidding), and ultimately how people need to submit. It’s insidious propaganda in my opinion.

I left the OCA years ago, as did my siblings. Not trying to say all branches or parishes are bad but... people need to have a critical awareness of what they’re participating in.

Progressive dog

(6,903 posts)
35. He wants to make Russia great again
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 09:06 PM
Jul 2018

by going back to the time of the Tsars. (Prince Vladimir 1 made Christianity the official religion of Russia in the 10th century)
I wonder which number of Vladimir this one will be.

Vogon_Glory

(9,117 posts)
36. Hmmm, what sort of Christian?
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 09:20 PM
Jul 2018

It’s no secret that Putin, like the Czars before 1917, favors the Russian Orthodox Church above other Christian sects.

This should blow up in the faces of so many of our American “born-again” Evangelicals who very often go on tears about Liturgicals (Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalians, etc) and often mainstream Protestants for not “really being Christian.

This should make for interesting times for any of these “born-agains” who try to evangelize on Orthodox turf in Holy Mother Russia.

The unforeseen consequences would serve the nasty little pietists right.

Igel

(35,303 posts)
49. Americans have a scant impression of most denominational differences.
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:54 AM
Jul 2018

For many, it's "Christian" because Jesus wants us all to "jus' get along" because God is "nice." Ecumenism has produced a large number of vitiated denominations that nobody much cares about except out of habit. Lay people are iffy on doctrine anyway, and when all you have is lay people and they're barely attached to anything, you get no doctrine.

Catholics have a pope, otherwise they're like Methodists and Churches of God and Baptists. And the Orthodox.

Vogon_Glory

(9,117 posts)
53. Evangelicals are pickier
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 01:51 PM
Jul 2018

Conservative Evangelicals are often far pickier as to who THEY consider to be Christians. And since they supply so many members of the Religious Right’s voting block, their views are worth noting.

Many Evangelicals believe that simply being baptized is not enough. They also believe that you have to be “born again” and directly, consciously accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior. The often believe if you do not do these things, you are some sort of borderline on-believer and are doomed to eternal heck-fire and darn-nation.

To this very day, some evangelicals think that “Mainstream Protestants” are slackers, that Catholics aren’t really Christians, and don’t get them started on Mormons.

Now, put some of the more obnoxious Evangelical folks with this mindset in Russia, which V. Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church consider THEIR turf, what do you think will happen when the little evangelical missionaries and street preachers start mouthing off against Orthodox practices like religious art, icons, etc?

Interesting times, to say the least.

Xolodno

(6,390 posts)
37. Feel sorry for the other religions in Russia...
Sat Jul 28, 2018, 10:04 PM
Jul 2018

...obviously "imported" religions have always had a hard time. However, the various Sects from the Russian Orthodox Schism such as the Dukabors, Skoptsky, Molokans, Old Believers, Khlysti, Subotniki, etc. despite being home grown, are now ok to be persecuted by the Russian State again.

Some of them fled to the US, Canada and Mexico over a century ago for religious freedom... ironically they were harassed by the evangelical religions. Only difference was, the evangelicals didn't have the authority to imprison, torture, etc. in the name of religion. But they did their best to deny them economically. But it was better than what they experienced from their own government.

Side note, since the break between the original "first among equals, the patriarch of Rome"....The Patriarch of the Greek Church assumed that title. However, it's the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church in Moscow, aka, the Third Rome, that holds all the influence and power....no thanks to Turkey, who insists on checking the Greek Orthodox Patriarch in Istanbul/Constantinople at every avenue.

Botany

(70,504 posts)
39. Total gas lighting by Vlad
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 01:25 AM
Jul 2018

He no more agrees w/Christianity than Trump won the Presidency honestly.

brush

(53,778 posts)
41. trump and Putin running the same game with Christianity...
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 02:19 AM
Jul 2018

Pandering to evangelicals.

trump never even uttered the word church until he needed their votes.

olddad56

(5,732 posts)
45. Religion is for those who don't
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 03:34 AM
Jul 2018

want to go to hell, spirituality are for those who have been there. Putin and Trump are creating hell on earth for all of us, but don't have any spirituality. Fuck them both.

Bayard

(22,069 posts)
50. Isn't this sacrilege?
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 11:29 AM
Jul 2018

Seriously, blessing weapons? What happened to that whole, "Thou Shalt Not Kill", thing?

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
51. I think we can all agree that Christianity is NOT the basis of democracy.
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 11:33 AM
Jul 2018

There are no votes in heaven. Heaven is - at best - a benign dictatorship, with god as the dictator. The inhabitants of that dictatorship spend eternity shouting the praises of the dictator.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
52. This is his way of sweeping in the American evangelicals.
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 11:34 AM
Jul 2018

Plus, they get extra points for abuses against gays.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
55. everyone upset about this should also feel the same about Israel, which has followed
Sun Jul 29, 2018, 04:35 PM
Jul 2018

a religious supremacy policy from its inception.

cstanleytech

(26,291 posts)
58. Personally unless he has said this before then my gut goes with him saying it now as a means of
Mon Jul 30, 2018, 12:31 AM
Jul 2018

trying to give both Trump and the Repugnants a boost with the more right wing religious radicals before the upcoming elections.
After all what Putin fears is the Democrats gaining back enough control to then do things like strengthen NATO which has stood in his way to conquer more of the varies countries bordering Russia.

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