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onehandle

(51,122 posts)
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 11:19 AM Aug 2012

Mark David Chapman, John Lennon's Killer, Denied Parole For 7th Time In NY

Last edited Thu Aug 23, 2012, 12:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: AP

ALBANY, N.Y. -- John Lennon's killer was denied release from prison in his seventh appearance before a parole board, New York corrections officials said.

Mark David Chapman, 57, was denied parole by a three-member board after a hearing Wednesday, the state Department of Corrections said Thursday. The transcript of his latest hearing wasn't immediately released.

Chapman shot Lennon in December 1980 outside the Manhattan apartment building where the former Beatle lived. He was sentenced in 1981 to 20 years to life in prison after pleading guilty to second-degree murder. The musician, singer and songwriter was 40.

"Despite your positive efforts while incarcerated, your release at this time would greatly undermine respect for the law and tend to trivialize the tragic loss of life which you caused as a result of this heinous, unprovoked, violent, cold and calculated crime," board member Sally Thompson wrote. Board members Joseph Crangle and Marc Coppola agreed.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/23/mark-david-chapman-john-lennon-killer-denied-parole-7th-time-ny_n_1824704.html



Legal gun owner gets better than he deserves.

'Chapman purchased the gun legally in Hawaii. Because he had no criminal record and had never been committed to a mental institution, he was issued a permit.'
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Mark David Chapman, John Lennon's Killer, Denied Parole For 7th Time In NY (Original Post) onehandle Aug 2012 OP
Good. nt msanthrope Aug 2012 #1
RIP John Lennon n/t xocet Aug 2012 #2
Keep rotting, asshole. nt Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #3
GOOD!! ailsagirl Aug 2012 #4
I'm up in the air about this one Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #5
Chapman murdered John Lennon "only because" he was John Lennon rocktivity Aug 2012 #7
Are you familiar with the term "Equal justice before the Law"? NT Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #8
Lennon deserves equal justice, too rocktivity Aug 2012 #12
Re: Lennon deserves equal justice, too Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #14
It's fairly easy to establish a clear and present danger with Chapman. Ty Templeton Aug 2012 #13
You must be full of nothing but air, actually Scairp Aug 2012 #19
Re: you don't have the slightest clue what Lennon would say. Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #24
Whatever Scairp Aug 2012 #34
how about he killed ANYONE in a cold calculating way & has only served 30 years wordpix Aug 2012 #21
If that's normal treatment for a murderer in NY state fine NT Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #25
TRANSLATION: "Have it on MY record that I let John Lennon's assassin go free? rocktivity Aug 2012 #6
You got it. Matters not whether Chapman has served a sentence commensurate with similar... Scuba Aug 2012 #10
Re: cultural icons Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #15
"Life isn't fair." - James Earl Carter Scuba Aug 2012 #16
How would you know? Scairp Aug 2012 #20
It sounds to me like you don't want justice, you want vengeance Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #26
He's in prison Scairp Aug 2012 #36
While traitors and war criminals walk free and "tell their stories" in the captive MSM like RUMSFELD bobthedrummer Aug 2012 #9
If the decision was motivated by public safety, inmate behavior, and an unbiased petronius Aug 2012 #11
Agreed alcibiades_mystery Aug 2012 #17
You "sincerely" doubt do you? Scairp Aug 2012 #22
Your rage isn't hurting anyone but you, you know that right? NT Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #27
Condescending comment. Quantess Aug 2012 #35
Well alcibiades_mystery Aug 2012 #31
What If One Of Your Kids Was Killed By Chapman? HangOnKids Aug 2012 #23
What if one of your kids WASN'T killed by Chapman and was on the street after 12 years Trunk Monkey Aug 2012 #28
Bye-Bye HangOnKids Aug 2012 #33
Probably not alcibiades_mystery Aug 2012 #30
oooh!... So close! JohnnyRingo Aug 2012 #18
I like the way you think. 2ndAmForComputers Aug 2012 #32
Good. I imagine there would Cha Aug 2012 #29
 

Trunk Monkey

(950 posts)
5. I'm up in the air about this one
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 12:31 PM
Aug 2012

If they're keeping him in jail only because the person he killed was John Lennon, then I think he should be let out.

If there are no other mitigating factors then he should be treated just like any other prisoner and I think John Lennon would say the same thing.

Also FWIW MDC was not a legal gun owner

rocktivity

(44,570 posts)
7. Chapman murdered John Lennon "only because" he was John Lennon
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 12:49 PM
Aug 2012

That's enough to outweigh any mitigating factors for me.


rocktivity

rocktivity

(44,570 posts)
12. Lennon deserves equal justice, too
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 01:39 PM
Aug 2012

and I don't think 31 years is it. It's less time than he allowed Lennon to live.


rocktivity

 

Trunk Monkey

(950 posts)
14. Re: Lennon deserves equal justice, too
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 02:59 PM
Aug 2012

I agree but I'm not sure how to give it to him.

we're Progressives remember? That means we treat every one equally and fairly even people like MDC.

If the only reason he's still in prison is who he killed that's wrong.

If he would have been out by now if he'd killed someone else's kid (or dad, or husband) that's wrong.

If the parole board can point to a valid reason to keep him in jail longer than other killers, or can show that he isn't being kept longer than other killers I'm OK with that.

But if all we're doing is saying let him rot because we're angry that he killed John Lennon that's not justice or Progressive

Ty Templeton

(26 posts)
13. It's fairly easy to establish a clear and present danger with Chapman.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 02:16 PM
Aug 2012

Since he showed no signs of his deadly plans before he carried them out, we can easily assume he's capable of further murder, and can be held until he dies for public safety reasons. If Chapman had been going around saying "I'll be killing John Lennon Tuesday" then one might argue he's "gotten it out of his system". But because his current behaviour is similar enough to his pre-murdering behaviour, a reasonable person can reasonably assume he will kill again.

He will die in prison, there's no question of that. I wish he'd hurry up, though.

Scairp

(2,749 posts)
19. You must be full of nothing but air, actually
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 03:35 PM
Aug 2012

Last edited Thu Aug 23, 2012, 04:21 PM - Edit history (1)

And they ARE NOT keeping him in prison just because of who he murdered, assassinated really. He is still a danger to society. He is still a danger to the surviving Lennon family and perhaps even the other surviving members of the Beatles. He could fixate on another famous person. He could fixate on a non-famous person. He is where he should be. And you don't have the slightest clue what Lennon would say.

 

Trunk Monkey

(950 posts)
24. Re: you don't have the slightest clue what Lennon would say.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 05:27 PM
Aug 2012

Which is why I was very careful to say "I think "


And they ARE NOT keeping him in prison just because of who he murdered, assassinated really. He is still a danger to society. He is still a danger to the surviving Lennon family and perhaps even the other surviving members of the Beatles.


May I presume that you have a cite that shows that this was the rationale the parole board used to deny his parole?

If not ( to quote someone near and dear to your heart) you don't have the slightest clue why Chapman's parole was denied.

I'm not advocating that Chapman be released, I'm advocating that he receive precisely the same treatment other inmates receive.

Scairp

(2,749 posts)
34. Whatever
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 06:35 PM
Aug 2012

You brought it up, it's on you to produce facts about whether he is getting the same treatment any other cold blooded killer is getting in New York. I mean shit, if we are going to parole killers in this country after 3 or 4 decades then Charlie Manson should have been out years ago because he never actually killed anyone by his own hand. You have no clue how it cuts when you say this guy is getting screwed by the system somehow because he killed a famous man. That is utter bullshit. He is dangerous, and John Lennons's fame is exactly why he is not here now, because his fame got him killed by a freak loser with a gun. Fuck me, how hard can that possibly be to understand?

wordpix

(18,652 posts)
21. how about he killed ANYONE in a cold calculating way & has only served 30 years
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 03:56 PM
Aug 2012

You take someone's life by shooting in the back, it is NOT self-defense, it's cold blooded murder. Why do I want this guy sharing the same street, bus, train, etc. with me?

rocktivity

(44,570 posts)
6. TRANSLATION: "Have it on MY record that I let John Lennon's assassin go free?
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 12:46 PM
Aug 2012
Surely you jest."


rocktivity
 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
10. You got it. Matters not whether Chapman has served a sentence commensurate with similar...
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 01:28 PM
Aug 2012

... killers whose victims who are not cultural icons.


No parole board member wants that on his/her record.

 

Trunk Monkey

(950 posts)
15. Re: cultural icons
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 03:03 PM
Aug 2012

Is John Lennon's life more valuable than your's?

How would you explain that to a parent who lost a kid and saw the killer do 12 years before parole?

Is John Lennon's life more valuable than theirs?

Scairp

(2,749 posts)
20. How would you know?
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 03:40 PM
Aug 2012

You don't know dick about whether or not the sentence he's served at this point is "commiserate" with other killer's sentences. His sentence is 25-life. It means minimum of 25 years and the maximum of his natural life. What part of that do you not understand?

 

Trunk Monkey

(950 posts)
26. It sounds to me like you don't want justice, you want vengeance
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 05:30 PM
Aug 2012

In that case why not execute Chapman?

Scairp

(2,749 posts)
36. He's in prison
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:34 PM
Aug 2012

He needs to stay in prison. That is justice. If he walks out of prison and someone kills him, that's vengeance. You need to buy yourself a dictionary because you have no idea what the definition of anything is, especially justice. You know what, if he got out and someone did kill him, I hope they get away with it. There ya go, a little talk of vengeance.

And nobody can give the world nor the Lennon's nor me what we truly want. We want John Lennon here with us all these years, all 31 years, 8 months and 15 days he has been gone. I want him here to be a old man who saw his sons become men and got to see his grandchildren born. What I want right now is for you to shut the hell up about what constitutes justice. You don't have a fucking clue.

 

bobthedrummer

(26,083 posts)
9. While traitors and war criminals walk free and "tell their stories" in the captive MSM like RUMSFELD
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 01:24 PM
Aug 2012

CHENEY, BUSH, PEARLE, FEITH, WURMSER, WOLFOWITZ, GONZALES, ASHCROFT, TENET, et. al.

petronius

(26,589 posts)
11. If the decision was motivated by public safety, inmate behavior, and an unbiased
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 01:35 PM
Aug 2012

application of the law (i.e., it's consistent with how other murderers with that length sentence are treated) then great.

But if the celebrity factor of either the victim or the parole opponents played a role, then I'd have a problem (the phrase "greatly undermine respect for the law" would come to mind)...

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
17. Agreed
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 03:10 PM
Aug 2012

For what it's worth, I sincerely doubt that there are parallel cases in the NY State system now - 2nd degree murder with 30 years in, no previous record, and a good inmate sheet. It's pretty obvious that notoriety alone is extending Mr. Chapman's stay with the state, rather than anything objective or consistent with general practices. And yes, that troubles me as well.

Chapman is going to get out. Question is when, not if.

Scairp

(2,749 posts)
22. You "sincerely" doubt do you?
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 04:17 PM
Aug 2012

But you don't know for certain any of this claptrap you spew, do you? Killers are staying in prison, especially those who have used guns to kill. He shot a man in the back on a Manhattan street for no reason other than Lennon was an extraordinary man and this killer was an angry, pathetic nothing of a human waste. He took someone with two young sons. His five year old grew up without a father. His teenager has not had an easy time since. His widow saw him murdered right in front of her. The breadth of loss is a major factor in deciding parole. Parole boards always look at what impact the murder had on others, how wide and on how many lives. I think it's safe to say that the loss of Lennon was and is far reaching. All that warrants keeping him in prison forever. I will never forget how terrible I felt the night of December 8, 1980, and the days that followed. I stayed up all night that night, listening to the radio. I cut out all the newspaper articles from my hometown paper. I still have them today, yellow and crumbling. I was just a kid, younger even than Julian Lennon. I have had to relive that terrible feeling every single year when the day comes around so I can't even imagine how the family feels. This year will be 32 years, more than my entire adult life. I am not alone. I am much younger than he plus I am female and he will not outlive me. He's safer inside, I promise you that.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
31. Well
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 05:41 PM
Aug 2012

I don't think John Lennon's killer should get more time than John Smith's killer, just because it was Lennon. Plenty of people were killed senselessly on Manhattan streets in the late 1970's and early 1980's. I'm looking for equal justice under the law. That's my standard.

 

Trunk Monkey

(950 posts)
28. What if one of your kids WASN'T killed by Chapman and was on the street after 12 years
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 05:34 PM
Aug 2012

Would you feel the same?

Justice is blind, we treat everyone the same under the same circumstance.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
30. Probably not
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 05:39 PM
Aug 2012

But the family's rage is not the measure of punishment. What is the standard for the crime, objectively? What is the standard for the inmate's prior offenses and potential for future offenses and for the inmate's behavior while incarcerated. Equal justice under the law - for victim and offender. That's if you want a rational and fair society. otherwise, by all means have the victim's families throw all offenders to the dogs or the lynch mobs - it doesn't much matter at that point.

That's how you adjudicate such matter rationally in a just society. If it was purely up to the family's feelings about it, we shouldn't have a justice system or sentencing guidelines or inmate behavior records or any system at all.

So your question is largely beside the point. But we could easily turn it around, and ask what a parent of a person murdered in pretty much any other second degree murder committed at the time thinks about John Lennon's killer being given more punishment than their own child's killer, since their own child's killer has likely been free for the better part of a decade.

Why is John Lennon more important than their own child?

JohnnyRingo

(18,610 posts)
18. oooh!... So close!
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 03:11 PM
Aug 2012

Hahahaha.

I hope they teased him for weeks that he may have had a chance at getting sprung just so the let down would have more impact. I hope the parole board beat around the bush, mentioning all the reasons he should be set free, then looked at him and said: "I don't think so".

Maybe he'll have more time to catch up on his reading.

Cha

(296,562 posts)
29. Good. I imagine there would
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 05:34 PM
Aug 2012

be a tremendous uproar if he were granted parole.

He killed in cold blood..he should be in prison the rest of his life, imv.

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